CHICAGO | General Developments

[denizen467]

I don't see the point of dreaming about a gentrified Goose Island for a long time. There is tons of other space where clean / high-tech industrial, r&d, and of course residential can occur for the time being, such as about an entire 1 mile of the opposite bank of the river from North Ave down to Division and curving around to Halsted (tons of vacant lots, and Morton Salt is about to sell too) as well as the sprawling Freedom Center area. Then slightly north there's Finkl City or whatever it'll end up being dubbed. Plus, access to Goose Island rather 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵; you'd need to add lanes to both Division bridges (though admittedly some kind of reconstruction is planned anyway) and augment with other transport infrastructure.

I would definitely support evicting Waste Management and that rancid smelling garbage depot across the canal from Whole Foods. But, on the other hand, as Mr Downtown suggests, there likely doesn't exist another location it could be moved to that meets trash logistics requirements, which rather cements the case for keeping Goose Island as it is. The downtown area also benefits from FedEx's mega facility on Goose Island, as do the growing number of Amazon Prime Now app users drooling for drone deliveries of Ben & Jerry pints.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown

^Because the possibility of developing residential will always push land values to the point that it's unaffordable for warehousing or manufacturing, as we're letting happen in Fulton Market and Pilsen, as already happened in River North and the West Loop and Canal-Roosevelt and the Ravenswood Corridor. The stuff in Bolingbrook is for distribution to the region; downtown needs a place nearby that support facilities—printers, records storage, delivery fleets, elevator repair, commercial laundries and food prep—can afford to locate.

1) You're confusing I-55 with the suburbs. There are places that have been popping up in Lower West Side (south of Pilsen) again, Brighton Park, etc. These are not much further, or sometimes any further, away from downtown than Goose Island is to downtown. Also, why does it need to be close to downtown? Being close to transportation hubs is more important for some of these companies than being close to a bunch of corporate offices. Even for something like Amazon Prime, to support a big city like Chicago they need multiple warehouses set up strategically around the area, not just on the north side.


2) According to my permit map, there was a new $31M freezer storage warehouse facility granted a permit in late April as well as a new $10M warehouse granted at the end of September both on Wood st just south of Blue Island. There were also another two warehouses granted permits (one in mid 2015 and the other in January 2016) just south of the train tracks around 33rd St between Pulaski and Cicero with a new trade school in between those. Also new cold storage in mid 2015 at 51st and Millard and 3 new heavy industry/warehousing buildings down in South Deering issued permits in September/October 2016. Also a warehouse issued a permit near Fort Knox Studios in September in Irving Park. Also I believe Nestle Professional Beverages got issued a permit for a big addition to their plant at 18th and Kilbourn either this year or last year.

That's basically 7 new warehouse permits issued in September/October for Chicago and none of them chose anywhere close to Goose Island - not to mention the ones from last year that were in the same boat.

Here's the scene from October for those two sites on Wood just south of Blue Island gearing up for 2 big new warehouses to be built on vacant land:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8474287,...ATJkXeSqsgu6TDM6yLQmA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

3) The days of Goose Island being some wonderland of industrial/warehousing is most likely over or in 10-15 or 20 years will be. Maybe you missed the memo about DMDII and UI Labs, and Uber being a few hundred feet west of the island now. They're going to turn it into a digital "manufacturing" hub and high tech hub - and that doesn't mean what you probably think it does when they say "manufacturing hub." It already started a few years ago and there's no reason to believe it's all of a sudden going to attract a bunch of heavy industrial again, especially granted where a bunch of the warehouses from above have been permitted.

IF big parcels like Finkl Steel are going to change and residential put in there and what not, then we can probably expect Goose Island to be more susceptible to change.

[LouisVanDerWright]

Yeah I also don't see the point of developing Goose Island when it is surrounded on all sides by much more accessible development sites like the remains of Cabrini Green or the Elston Corridor.

Speaking of the NW side diagonal streets, can we all just reflect for a moment on how quickly the Kennedy is getting boxed in with urban development from Armitage to downtown? Between the Audi Dealership, apartment development next door, Midtown's bizarre expansion, and the Bully and Andrews office building, that corridor is really transforming. These are areas I never thought would ever progress beyond North/Clybornesque auto oriented 🞵🞵🞵🞵 (though Audi is obviously car oriented). I can actually see a day where driving into Chicago is an experience of driving through endless blocks of 3-5 floor buildings that come right up to the freeway. Like the city has healed around the wounds left by urban renewal with very little scare tissue remaining.

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown

After two decades of working to make Goose Island accessible to truck traffic, why now abandon that and beef up transit to support residential towers?

What work was done to make Goose Island accessible to trucks? Division St bridges are still narrow and crumbling. New Halsted bridge was planned around bike lanes. North Ave bridge was replaced and widened, but it doesn't connect to Goose Island.

[Rizzo]

Originally Posted by ardecila

What work was done to make Goose Island accessible to trucks? Division St bridges are still narrow and crumbling. New Halsted bridge was planned around bike lanes. North Ave bridge was replaced and widened, but it doesn't connect to Goose Island.

Speaking of which, has CDOT ever figured out what will happen with Divison Street? I remember seeing a plan to have 4 lanes. This might have been 5 years ago. I was in favor of a 3 lane (with center turn lane) configuration and buffered bike lanes. The center lane would be extra-wide for trucks. I figured it was the bridges holding everything up at the moment.

[Kumdogmillionaire]

I'm with Mr. Downtown here as well. Not only does it not make a modicum of economic or logistical sense, it also just doesn't seem at all likely that any kind of demand for high rises/skyscrapers in and around GI will occur for a few more cycles. We'll talk again in 2035 if manufacturing is dead, until then you use places for their intended purpose, especially(as Louis pointed out) other parts of town are already ready, willing, zoned, and able to be used for residential.

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by Hayward

Speaking of which, has CDOT ever figured out what will happen with Divison Street? I remember seeing a plan to have 4 lanes. This might have been 5 years ago. I was in favor of a 3 lane (with center turn lane) configuration and buffered bike lanes. The center lane would be extra-wide for trucks. I figured it was the bridges holding everything up at the moment.

Yeah, we haven't heard much from CDOT lately. Damen/Elston/Fullerton and the Western viaduct are wrapping up, I'm waiting to see what the next North Side project will be.

The temp bridge on Division bought them some time.

I would agree that 3 lanes should be enough. The bridges should be three lanes as well, with two lanes approaching the intersection at Halsted (and the reverse at Elston) and one lane leading away from those intersections. Make all the lanes wide enough for trucks, and provide barrier protection for bike lanes.

[moorhosj]

Originally Posted by Kumdogmillionaire

it also just doesn't seem at all likely that any kind of demand for high rises/skyscrapers in and around GI will occur for a few more cycles.

Well sure, if we completely ignore the 3 nearby high rises built since 2012 (SoNo and New City).

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by Kumdogmillionaire

I'm with Mr. Downtown here as well. Not only does it not make a modicum of economic or logistical sense, it also just doesn't seem at all likely that any kind of demand for high rises/skyscrapers in and around GI will occur for a few more cycles. We'll talk again in 2035 if manufacturing is dead, until then you use places for their intended purpose, especially(as Louis pointed out) other parts of town are already ready, willing, zoned, and able to be used for residential.

Manufacturers on average are not moving to Goose Island. The people looking at Goose Island and have moved there or are planning on it are really more of the local retail distribution like Amazon who is buying these properties strategically in the area because they need to be able to get goods from the warehouse to the consumer quickly. A company who might manufacture something on a more national scale is going to be close to either an airport or a rail yard. There are more strategic options available both in the city and suburbs for this that can save companies a lot of money but cutting down the number of miles per year they need to transport goods between the factory/warehouse and airport.

There have been companies like R2 who have been buying up buildings on Goose Island and some are slated for warehousing, but they also plan on turning some buildings into offices - like has already been done for places like UI Labs and nearby Uber. There has been something like 7 new constriction building permits for warehouses in the 2nd half of 2016 for Chicago and none are near Goose Island. The land elsewhere is cheap and depending on who the company is, it could be a lot more strategic to go elsewhere than Goose Island.

Here is an article from May 2015 though talking about what R2 is planning on GI about 1200 N North Branch:

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/realestat...929/goose-island-investor-adds-to-gaggle

Eventually, R2 plans to redevelop the warehouse structure into loft offices or warehouse space for a tenant needing close proximity to surrounding neighborhoods such as Lincoln Park and Bucktown, he said. For either use, the structure could be expanded or rebuilt to have about 375,000 square feet, Garrison said.

In recent deals elsewhere on the island, e-commerce giant Amazon.com recently leased a 51,970-square-foot warehouse at 1111 N. Cherry Ave., and men's clothing startup Trunk Club leased 170,000 square feet of distribution space at 930 W. Evergreen Ave. In the latter building, UI Labs also recently opened a federally funded digital manufacturing lab.

“There's been a great track record on Goose Island lately, and we're trying to figure out how to optimize that,” Garrison said.

R2 plans office developments on neighboring properties it bought at 934 N. Branch St. and 909 W. Bliss St. in separate 2014 deals for about $14.7 million combined.

[Mr Downtown]

No one thinks factory-scale manufacturing is going to go to Goose Island rather than some Interstate interchange out where labor is cheap, literate, and nonunion. (Rail access, BTW, has been irrelevant to most manufacturing for decades now.)

What Goose Island and Pilsen/Heart of Chicago are both needed for are the support services for downtown: the storage and repairers and other stuff that makes it possible and profitable to operate fancy hotels and big office buildings and high-end residential on expensive land in the Loop. Some of that is technically manufacturing, but it's stuff like food or printing or displays that may never leave the city limits.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown

No one thinks factory-scale manufacturing is going to go to Goose Island rather than some Interstate interchange out where labor is cheap, literate, and nonunion. (Rail access, BTW, has been irrelevant to most manufacturing for decades now.)

What Goose Island and Pilsen/Heart of Chicago are both needed for are the support services for downtown: the storage and repairers and other stuff that makes it possible and profitable to operate fancy hotels and big office buildings and high-end residential on expensive land in the Loop. Some of that is technically manufacturing, but it's stuff like food or printing or displays that may never leave the city limits.

Goose Island is now becoming more warehousing for quick retail, especially online retailers. However, as I have shown - not only have they started to put more high tech offices there (not startups though, usually - but wouldn't be surprised to see that happen soon) but the companies buying up land want to put more creative (i.e. loft) office space there. I have no doubt that Goose Island will become an attractive area for a more creative company's offices/start up who doesn't want to be downtown. The companies like Amazon who need to ship out things will no doubt have other warehouses on the north side, not just GI. They will probably get something soon in areas like Avondale or Irving Park and probably something more west like Dunning, Belmont Cragin, etc. Most likely something in Bridgeport, McKinley Park, or Brighton Park too.

You have a point, but location wise for stuff like hotels downtown, Goose Island is not much closer to hotels in the Loop than some of the warehouses just south of Pilsen - it's nearly the same distance. How much time is spent on the road between the warehouse and business could probably vary depending on the time. It's completely not out of the question that someone coming from a near SW side warehouse may spend less time on the road than someone coming from around Goose Island - again depending on the time of day. Needless to say, they have options. I don't think the price in difference in cost of having a warehouse a mile further away is going to scare them away.

[LouisVanDerWright]

An interesting question would be whether we start to see new multi-story industrial buildings in the not so distant future as development continues to encroach on the industrial hinterlands surrounding downtown. I can see rising demand for immediate distribution facilities for companies like Amazon, and rapidly falling supply of old industrial spaces for them to inhabit. Let's face it, Lincoln Park Chads and Trixies aren't going to put up with waiting for their 1 hr Amazon delivery to fight cross town traffic from Belmont Craigin at 5PM.

If we ever do get to the point where these uses have been largely pushed out of places like Goose Island, it may someday become practical for them to house themselves in denser warehousing facilities, perhaps fully automated multifloor warehouses like the variety that went extinct in the wake of WWII as the semi truck and freeways shrank the relevancy of distance in our inner cities.

[the urban politician]

^ With self driving cars and decreased auto ownership in denser parts of town, one wonders if some multilevel garages could some day be converted to this use

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright

Let's face it, Lincoln Park Chads and Trixies aren't going to put up with waiting for their 1 hr Amazon delivery to fight cross town traffic from Belmont Craigin at 5PM.

Which is why they're on Goose Island, except for a city of 2.7 million people spread across 200+ sq miles, there needs to be more than just Goose Island which is why I mentioned Belmont Cragin (for example). That serves the purpose of one section of town. Goose Island serves the purpose of another part of town. Somewhere like Brighton Park or New City or Englewood serves the purpose of another part of town, etc. Amazon is in the business of creating a network within the city to get their stuff out fast, not to just create one or two warehouses in one part of the city to serve the entire city.


Speaking of which, Amazon just announced another 1000 warehouse jobs for Aurora.

[Randomguy34]

CAB is reporting that the new owner of the Spiegel Building on 35th Street is Blue Star Properties, and they want to redevelop it into offices, artist studio space, self-storage and small scale manufacturing operations, with no residential component. The redevelopment will be designed by K2 Studios/CION Companies.
http://www.chicagoarchitecture.org/2016/...ing-back-in-play-people-out-business-in/

[OrdoSeclorum]

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown

What Goose Island and Pilsen/Heart of Chicago are both needed for are the support services for downtown: the storage and repairers and other stuff that makes it possible and profitable to operate fancy hotels and big office buildings and high-end residential on expensive land in the Loop. Some of that is technically manufacturing, but it's stuff like food or printing or displays that may never leave the city limits.

I think this is a good point and worthy of careful consideration. I often approve of smart zoning and planning and I also approve of hands off development. I often feel conflicted and of two minds about this sort of stuff.

But when I walk through the Kinzie PMD, as I often do, I'm frequently surprised about how low intensity the use is. Even if we tripled the number of coffee roasters and breweries and floral warehouses and print shops there, there would be lots available to build on or buildings to re-use. And when I go to East Garfield Park or drive on Pershing Avenue, I feel the same way. Am I wrong to think that because or our manufacturing history, Chicago has more space like this than we can ever hope to possibly ever use? This is ignoring the countless empty acres on the far south side.

I don't know what the plan should be for Goose Island, but if forces are creating a tech cluster there already and the land happens to be between Lincoln Park and Bucktown, it seems like we might not want to get in the way of success there.

[Via Chicago]

Originally Posted by Randomguy34

CAB is reporting that the new owner of the Spiegel Building on 35th Street is Blue Star Properties, and they want to redevelop it into offices, artist studio space, self-storage and small scale manufacturing operations, with no residential component. The redevelopment will be designed by K2 Studios/CION Companies.
http://www.chicagoarchitecture.org/2016/...ing-back-in-play-people-out-business-in/

hope this pans out!

[LouisVanDerWright]

Looks like the demo is finally starting on Mega Mall. There are guys with boom lifts up on the roof, must be chopping out the HVAC units for salvage, willing to bet they are pulling all the copper from the inside right now. They have a big scrap metal trailer in the lot too.

[SolarWind]

December 20, 2016





http://illumechicago.com/

[Mr Downtown]

An animation showing "Densification of the Chicago Loop from 1870 to Present"

• Video Link