Ādisōke [Ottawa's New Central Library] | U/C

[AndyMEng]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

The sheer exposure of the new site, especially to westerly/northwesterly howlwers coming across the river, will make access in the winter very unpleasant.

You prefer the windtunnel downtown to the wind-swept Lebreton? With your argument, we shouldn't build anything, lol. Canada is a cold witch of a place.

Imagine in the summer: The long, cascading form of the library bustling, large terraces providing outdoor experiences, pedestrians entering at the top floor of the library, taking the accessible elevators to the lower level and exiting to the North, leading directly to the fantastic site of the Fleet Street pumphouse, white water training course, natural amphitheater and trails towards the river. ALL of these places are not only walkable, but amazingly pleasant. I regularly walk/bike/run/sled this area in the summer and winter, AND, believe it or not, I actually live in Centretown, a place where people would have you believe is 1 million miles from Lebreton. This is a mental stick-up, its actually about 10 minutes walking briskly, and traffic isn't that bad, and the intersections aren't a free-for-all death trap. Everyone sees Lebreton as a windswept hellhole, but it's actually not.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by AndyMEng

You prefer the windtunnel downtown to the wind-swept Lebreton?

What wind tunnel downtown?

Where do people keep getting this ludicrous "wind tunnel" idea from?

Imagine in the summer: The long, cascading form of the library bustling, large terraces providing outdoor experiences

You write "outdoor experiences"; I read "sweaty back and heatstroke".

I regularly walk/bike/run/sled this area in the summer and winter, AND, believe it or not, I actually live in Centretown, a place where people would have you believe is 1 million miles from Lebreton.

It's not a million miles from Lebreton, but you can see it from there.

There is an unfortunate edge vacuum in that part of town which greatly influences the perception of distances.

Everyone sees Lebreton as a windswept hellhole, but it's actually not.

No, now it's a windswept heckhole with bonus uninspired condos on an essentially suburban street layout.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by AndyMEng

The schoolyard at Ottawa Tech has been upgraded to include a very nice trail, past a dog park, and leading directly to the new signalized intersection at Bronson/Slater/Albert. Granted, this intersection is ridiculous, but I as I see it, the library is literally 100 yards further. I realize there's an 'escarpment' but its really just a slight downhill. The roads/grading/signalization can all be easily changed, even to 'level out' the end of Albert Street to meet the top floor of the library (i.e. delay the downhill on Albert Street), before the library building cascades down to Lebreton Flats. I actually see it as a great opportunity to provide a public accessible route (i.e. lifts) to get you from Lebreton alllllllll the way up the 50 foot hill to Downtown.

I'm not saying its impossible, I'm just saying that walking on a bike path, down (or up) hill past empty patches of grass, retaining walls and that giant barrier to protect people from Bronson Ave is not a pleasant experience compared to walking down a regular downtown street to the existing branch. And for downtown workers it means a long walk down Albert, which is not a nice either.

It is hard to tell, we don't know what this area will look like in 10 years when the library actually opens, but among the options on the table, the library board literally choose the least accessible location on their shortlist and the risk is that as fewer and fewer people go to the library for the books and they are more dependent on other activities, than many people will just stay away, no matter how impressive the atrium is.

[AndyMEng]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

What wind tunnel downtown?

Where do people keep getting this ludicrous "wind tunnel" idea from?



You write "outdoor experiences"; I read "sweaty back and heatstroke".



It's not a million miles from Lebreton, but you can see it from there.

There is an unfortunate edge vacuum in that part of town which greatly influences the perception of distances.



No, now it's a windswept heckhole with bonus uninspired condos on an essentially suburban street layout.

lol Your negativity in the face of a challenge always makes me smile.

I agree that there's a hard line between neighbourhoods, and Ottawan's have a particular knack for both complaining about Lebreton being empty and being super afraid of the vast expanse of Lebreton and it's unknown 'otherness' where you may get lost and die of exposure if you happen to make your way down to the vast badlands extending all the way to Hintonburg.

[1overcosc]

The chosen site could be the greatest thing ever, or a mistake. It all really depends on how the area develops.

[zzptichka]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I'm not saying its impossible, I'm just saying that walking on a bike path, down (or up) hill past empty patches of grass, retaining walls and that giant barrier to protect people from Bronson Ave is not a pleasant experience compared to walking down a regular downtown street to the existing branch. And for downtown workers it means a long walk down Albert, which is not a nice either.

It is hard to tell, we don't know what this area will look like in 10 years when the library actually opens, but among the options on the table, the library board literally choose the least accessible location on their shortlist and the risk is that as fewer and fewer people go to the library for the books and they are more dependent on other activities, than many people will just stay away, no matter how impressive the atrium is.

That's actually great. Fixing that intersection and street environment should be one of the features of the Library design. Without the library would the city ever find a reason to do it?
It must be done since it will also be the main connection between Downtown and Lebreton Flats. Especially with the Arena there it needs to be very walkable.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

The chosen site could be the greatest thing ever, or a mistake. It all really depends on how the area develops.

More to the point, it depends on the design of the library. Never misunderestimate the ability of the City of Ottawa to give in to really terrible, anti-urban, anti-pedestrian, anti-transit design choices in the construction of public facilities.

[Aylmer]

I drew up a sketch of what I hope the Escarpment area could look like post-library:




I think that the chosen location of the library has the potential to bridge the gap between downtown and Lebreton, but not in the way the City seems to be talking about; in many of the articles about the library, people have talked about how Albert could become the main link to Lebreton, but I would advance that old Wellington would be a much better route. We've already discussed this "Lower Sparks Street" (which I will use to refer to old Wellington) in the Sparks St. thread, so I won't belabour that point.

What's important with regard to the library is its design. More specifically, it's about the main entrance;
If the main entrance is on Albert and turns its back on Lower Sparks, then the link would be severed by the dead space.
If, however, the main entrance is on Sparks with a secondary entrance on Albert, it could be a major catalyst for this missing link between Lebreton and Downtown.

But there needs to be a concerted strategy for the missing link. It would be a shame for us to sleepwalk towards a downtown disconnected from all the major infrastructure coming to the west (library, Lebreton, Zibi, Arena, etc etc), but so far, I don't see any coordinated thought going into this.
Hopefully, this discussion can get underway before the final library design is selected. After all, this could be a make or break project for it.

[acottawa]

Who owns the site immediately to the west (the one right beside the station)? That's where the senators lebreton bid suggested putting a library and would at least have the advantage of not being uphill from the transit station.

[AndyMEng]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

I drew up a sketch of what I hope the Escarpment area could look like post-library:




I think that the chosen location of the library has the potential to bridge the gap between downtown and Lebreton, but not in the way the City seems to be talking about; in many of the articles about the library, people have talked about how Albert could become the main link to Lebreton, but I would advance that old Wellington would be a much better route. We've already discussed this "Lower Sparks Street" (which I will use to refer to old Wellington) in the Sparks St. thread, so I won't belabour that point.

What's important with regard to the library is its design. More specifically, it's about the main entrance;
If the main entrance is on Albert and turns its back on Lower Sparks, then the link would be severed by the dead space.
If, however, the main entrance is on Sparks with a secondary entrance on Albert, it could be a major catalyst for this missing link between Lebreton and Downtown.

But there needs to be a concerted strategy for the missing link. It would be a shame for us to sleepwalk towards a downtown disconnected from all the major infrastructure coming to the west (library, Lebreton, Zibi, Arena, etc etc), but so far, I don't see any coordinated thought going into this.
Hopefully, this discussion can get underway before the final library design is selected. After all, this could be a make or break project for it.

Excellent sketch, but everything you've drawn in to the left of the library won't ever be built, unfortunately. The intersection re-build at Bronson/Albert may allow the library to extend a bit further, closer to where the "79" is on the drawing, extending down and across to your 'Lower Sparks' which is a great idea. There's currently pedestrian pathways that follow your orange line, from the garden of the provinces, connecting directly to Fleet Street. The re-connection of the pedestrian route across the library and down to Pimisi will be important.

[Aylmer]

I know, I added that in there for a bit of fantasy
That "green space" is just so vacuous and empty - I'd much rather see something worthwhile built there.

But even without those fantasy buildings, the link could work; You'd need really solid design and lighting, but it could be attractive enough to turn the 300m between the Gardens of the Provinces and the Library from a walk through nothingness to an attractive green interlude between two nodes of urbanity.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

I know, I added that in there for a bit of fantasy
That "green space" is just so vacuous and empty - I'd much rather see something worthwhile built there.

But then what will The Canadians do?

But even without those fantasy buildings, the link could work; You'd need really solid design and lighting, but it could be attractive enough to turn the 300m between the Gardens of the Provinces and the Library from a walk through nothingness to an attractive green interlude between two nodes of urbanity.

The Garden of the Provinces and Territories is one of the worst public spaces in Canada. Flatten it and put something functional there.

[AndyMEng]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

I know, I added that in there for a bit of fantasy
That "green space" is just so vacuous and empty - I'd much rather see something worthwhile built there.

But even without those fantasy buildings, the link could work; You'd need really solid design and lighting, but it could be attractive enough to turn the 300m between the Gardens of the Provinces and the Library from a walk through nothingness to an attractive green interlude between two nodes of urbanity.

How do you change a pathway lined with white globe lanterns, bordered by large trees, planted gardens, and interesting rock features dotted with sculpture into "an attractive green interlude"? Isn't that what it is already? The problem is the runway paved 10 lane road at the end of it, right? Its like a highway interchange used by 100 cars per day.

The geography of the area is so interesting, with hills and valleys, cliffs, raging rivers, etc. etc. that a little re-org bordered by a large public building should anchor the space into a nice little park.

[lrt's friend]

What you show as Lower Sparks Street was originally Wellington Street, that connected to West Wellington Street via Albert Street and a viaduct that was demolished in the 1960s. I never fully understood why they connected Scott Street instead of Wellington when they did this. And prior to building the Garden of the Provinces, there was a lower Sparks Street that connected down the slope to Wellington. So the route shown did exist until the early-mid 1960s. The Garden of the Provinces now blocks the old Sparks Street connection, which would be a wonderful alternative for a downtown streetcar loop and a way to revitalise Sparks Street on its entire length. Sparks Street would be a much better pedestrian friendly route to connect downtown with the Library site and Lebreton and Zibi.

[AndyMEng]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

What you show as Lower Sparks Street was originally Wellington Street, that connected to West Wellington Street via Albert Street and a viaduct that was demolished in the 1960s. I never fully understood why they connected Scott Street instead of Wellington when they did this. And prior to building the Garden of the Provinces, there was a lower Sparks Street that connected down the slope to Wellington. So the route shown did exist until the early-mid 1960s. The Garden of the Provinces now blocks the old Sparks Street connection, which would be a wonderful alternative for a downtown streetcar loop and a way to revitalise Sparks Street on its entire length. Sparks Street would be a much better pedestrian friendly route to connect downtown with the Library site and Lebreton and Zibi.

I agree that the streetcar loop is an interesting addition, as outlined in other threads.

The garden of the provinces does NOT block pedestrians. Currently all you have to do is walk down Sparks Street, down 10 steps at the garden of the provinces podium, and down a pathway which more or less connects in a direct-straight line to Fleet Street, through the canyon of Claridge buildings (which isn't so bad now that everyone has gardens fronting their units) and you're right on the mud-flats. Its about 400-500m from Sparks to Lebreton. Oh, you've got to cross a disused, unsignalized/unmarked pedestrian crosswalk on Commissioners street. I suppose that could be construed as dangerous, but there are literally 100 cars that park down at the river level each day that use this 'road'. How much more pedestrian friendly do you want? A straight-line ramp instead of steps at the garden?

The ONLY reason people regard this as pedestrian un-friendly at all is because there is NO destination at the moment, other than the park itself!

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by AndyMEng

I agree that the streetcar loop is an interesting addition, as outlined in other threads.

The garden of the provinces does NOT block pedestrians. Currently all you have to do is walk down Sparks Street, down 10 steps at the garden of the provinces podium, and down a pathway which more or less connects in a direct-straight line to Fleet Street, through the canyon of Claridge buildings (which isn't so bad now that everyone has gardens fronting their units) and you're right on the mud-flats. Its about 400-500m from Sparks to Lebreton. Oh, you've got to cross a disused, unsignalized/unmarked pedestrian crosswalk on Commissioners street. I suppose that could be construed as dangerous, but there are literally 100 cars that park down at the river level each day that use this 'road'. How much more pedestrian friendly do you want? A straight-line ramp instead of steps at the garden?

The ONLY reason people regard this as pedestrian un-friendly at all is because there is NO destination at the moment, other than the park itself!

The Wellington street fragment there looks like the film set of a zombie movie. The street is very wide, doesn't have a recognizable sidewalk, and is in very poor condition, there are no people and lots of parked cars.

The definition of "pedestrian friendly" people are using here is "it is physically possible to walk there" I think pedestrian friendly should mean places where people want to walk. Places that feel dangerous at night or are not well-maintained, or not cleared in the winter are not pedestrian friendly.

The area has tones of potential, but I fear that jurisdictional squabbling and an unwillingness to spend the money will prevent that potential from being reached (and good pedestrian access to the library).

[1overcosc]

How much of the Wellington street fragment is still going to exist in 2 years? I'm under the impression the LRT tunnel portal is replacing a good chunk of it.

[Aylmer]

It is. However, the LRT sinks down gradually from Pimisi to the tunnel entrance. So I would imagine that it'd be possible to pull a Illumination Lebreton and cover the tracks with a street which would start at 'ground level' at the tunnel portal and gradually climb to the height of Booth St.

The Illumination Lebreton proposal actually included a render of what that might look like;
Here's a view from NE looking at the aqueduct with Pimisi station to the right. You can see the berm running from the station.

[McC]

Originally Posted by AndyMEng

The garden of the provinces does NOT block pedestrians. Currently all you have to do is walk down Sparks Street, down 10 steps at the garden of the provinces podium, and down a pathway which more or less connects in a direct-straight line to Fleet Street, through the canyon of Claridge buildings (which isn't so bad now that everyone has gardens fronting their units) and you're right on the mud-flats.

and you don't even have to walk down steps because there are ramps (except unfortunately from November-April when they're chained off--that has to change). It's great. The only reason I switched my route into the city to the Albert-OttawaTech route is because the LRT construction has narrowed and taken out all of the space on the west side of the north end of Lyon. A temporary situation.

Don't believe the hype, lots of people use the GotPs&Ts to connect the ORP paths and the Flats with the CBD, and lots of people use the GotPs&Ts as a public space in the summer time for their lunch/coffee/smoke breaks. It's not easy to find a place to sit at midday in nice weather, whether you prefer sun or shade.

[Kitchissippi]

It would be super cool if a bridge up to Queen street and a ramp were somehow integrated into the building

from Archdaily

Video Link