PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX

[Knight Hospitaller]

Originally Posted by reparcsyks

Same here! I care more about a strong street wall than height. Market Street should have a height minimum of 10 floors, so anything above that makes me happy.

This is great (and necessary) infill. With this prime lot developed and the completion of the East Market and Gallery projects, we will have solid urban goodness from Broad to Independence Mall on the north side of Market (perhaps enhanced with a few towers over the Gallery someday), and from Broad to 11th on the south side. That will have to put pressure on the less desirable and vacant portions on the south side between Brandywine's garage and CVS.

[Knight Hospitaller]

...and it seems that with Aramark ensconced at 2400 Market, and the prospective 2100 Market project, that we'll be close to eliminating the no-man's-land section of Market West. It will take only a couple of projects on either side of Market between 22nd and 23rd to finish off the "canyon."

[Londonee]

Originally Posted by skyscraper

One thing I love about this proposal is the fact that SOM is designing it. They have almost no buildings in Philly. The only other one I can think of that they designed was the old Spectrum.
They are also master planning the 30th street station district.

Was just going to post this same thing. SOM is a big deal. Nice get, exciting potential here on all levels.

[iheartphilly]

Originally Posted by Londonee

Was just going to post this same thing. SOM is a big deal. Nice get, exciting potential here on all levels.

I'm more excited about SOM's Phila., 30th St. Station District Plan, but this will happen before that, so thumbs up for it. And, this is good for the reasons that it is just right up from the Market East development. Nice to see someone thinking outside the box and taking a chance to develop with the move of the Aramark headquarters.

[PhillySteaks]

Oliver Pulver was trying to sell 8 Tower Bridge out in Conshohocken just this past summer. It never traded because I'm assuming the bids never got to where they needed them to be for a sale. At the time I was guessing he was looking to dump that asset for a new project, and was curious what it would be - thinking it'd be the speculative 7 Tower Bridge. Guess now I know.

I'd think they'd have a tenant currently in the works though. Impossible to get it financed without minimum 50% prelease.

[1487]

Originally Posted by PhilliesPhan

This is also great news! That portion of Chestnut can sustain some serious height given its proximity to the towers along Market. Hopefully, this property, the Boyd lot, and this one-story structure at 17th and Chestnut can also be redeveloped:

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9515089,...2j5VMmFbu74oQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

someone has already shot that theory down, it will remain retail.

[1487]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Link to the new thread for 1301 Market created by skyscraper:

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?p=7655757#post7655757

I'm sure the design is very preliminary, but I like what I see in the renderings. Great news if this goes forward- I am very curious about what tenant they have or expect to have.

[1487]

decode, perhaps something new is in here

http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/...hia-tower-pulver-center-city-market.html

[Larry King]

Originally Posted by PhillySteaks

Oliver Pulver was trying to sell 8 Tower Bridge out in Conshohocken just this past summer. It never traded because I'm assuming the bids never got to where they needed them to be for a sale. At the time I was guessing he was looking to dump that asset for a new project, and was curious what it would be - thinking it'd be the speculative 7 Tower Bridge. Guess now I know.

I'd think they'd have a tenant currently in the works though. Impossible to get it financed without minimum 50% prelease.

maybe the press release is to drum up tenant interest. They say 2020 target for opening. Gives a year to sign some leases, 2 years to build.

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by 1487

decode, perhaps something new is in here

http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/...hia-tower-pulver-center-city-market.html

Already pulled the text from the Bizjournals article and posted it in the thread for the project.

[PhillySteaks]

Originally Posted by Larry King

maybe the press release is to drum up tenant interest. They say 2020 target for opening. Gives a year to sign some leases, 2 years to build.

Yeap - more than enough time. It's usually a chicken and egg scenario with new development these days. It's tough to get rolling. Can't get financing without a tenant, can't get a tenant when you're planning 2-3 years ahead of time. Office tenants usually start looking a year out, not 2-3, and obviously a finished product is an easier sell than some renderings.

I'd speculate exactly what you're saying Larry. Get the lot, get the renderings done, press release, sign the tenants, get the financing, start the construction. He's going to need to sign 400k SF - which is no small feat in philly albeit true trophy space is limited. He's also going to need those tenants to sign some pretty lofty rents, but to be honest I'm sure he'll use the East Market Project right across the street as office rent comps (I think they're like $41 psf?) so there is some synergy going on there. Once you can prove to a lender you can get a certain rent point, it makes it easier than getting that initial first rent. Could see more development in the near future if these two get the rents they're looking for - and it appears they currently are getting what they need to move the projects forward...or at least be bullish on the submarket. Market east could look like Market West in 15-20yrs. They should blow up the Gallery and build a new Wells Fargo Center there, right on top of Jefferson Station. No parking - take the train. Just like NYC. Turn that whole hub into an ant hill, or when the sixers are playing - a deserted island.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by PhillySteaks

Yeap - more than enough time. It's usually a chicken and egg scenario with new development these days. It's tough to get rolling. Can't get financing without a tenant, can't get a tenant when you're planning 2-3 years ahead of time. Office tenants usually start looking a year out, not 2-3, and obviously a finished product is an easier sell than some renderings.

I'd speculate exactly what you're saying Larry. Get the lot, get the renderings done, press release, sign the tenants, get the financing, start the construction. He's going to need to sign 400k SF - which is no small feat in philly albeit true trophy space is limited. He's also going to need those tenants to sign some pretty lofty rents, but to be honest I'm sure he'll use the East Market Project right across the street as office rent comps (I think they're like $41 psf?) so there is some synergy going on there. Once you can prove to a lender you can get a certain rent point, it makes it easier than getting that initial first rent. Could see more development in the near future if these two get the rents they're looking for - and it appears they currently are getting what they need to move the projects forward...or at least be bullish on the submarket. Market east could look like Market West in 15-20yrs. They should blow up the Gallery and build a new Wells Fargo Center there, right on top of Jefferson Station. No parking - take the train. Just like NYC. Turn that whole hub into an ant hill, or when the sixers are playing - a deserted island.

No need for Wells Fargo on Market Street. The area around MSG is easily the dumpiest part of Manhattan. NYers avoid it like the plague.

No thanks. We're fine without a downtown arena. City planners should concentrate on building more city around the ones we have down in South Philly, not importing them uptown.

[Kidphilly]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

No need for Wells Fargo on Market Street. The area around MSG is easily the dumpiest part of Manhattan. NYers avoid it like the plague.

No thanks. We're fine without a downtown arena. City planners should concentrate on building more city around the ones we have down in South Philly, not importing them uptown.

agreed


open spaces, good PT access

this area could be a different form of residential - also a street wall on pattison and along CBP would be great a ton opf space the city should lease air rights for apartments think a lot of millenials would see it as foot into the city

[Knight Hospitaller]

Originally Posted by Kidphilly

agreed


open spaces, good PT access

this area could be a different form of residential - also a street wall on pattison and along CBP would be great a ton opf space the city should lease air rights for apartments think a lot of millenials would see it as foot into the city

Maybe "suburbs" for Navy Yard jobs, with subway access to Center City?

[PhillySteaks]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

No need for Wells Fargo on Market Street. The area around MSG is easily the dumpiest part of Manhattan. NYers avoid it like the plague.

No thanks. We're fine without a downtown arena. City planners should concentrate on building more city around the ones we have down in South Philly, not importing them uptown.

Hate to break it to you but Market East is the dumpiest part of center city, by far. Manhattanites avoid MSG, everyone else can't because it's a transportation hub. Commuters, concert goers, sports fans, and tourists actually work pretty well together. Market East is never going to be Philly's version of Rodeo Drive. It's much more similar to MSG.

Market East has LED billboards, touristy outlet stores (which will ironically be brand new), former and current cellphone/perfume/check cashing/methodone sites, and about 1,000,000 SF of low quality GSA leased space in run down dated office buildings, and local Philadelphians ALREADY avoid it like the plague. Sounds a lot like MSG. Might as well make the area more dense, increase the outlet stores retail sales, and have it be a tourist haven paralleled to indep. mall which is more or less a tourist trap already.

[1487]

Originally Posted by PhillySteaks

Hate to break it to you but Market East is the dumpiest part of center city, by far. It has LED billboards, touristy outlet stores (which will ironically be brand new) and about 1,000,000 SF of low quality GSA leased space. That's not going to change no matter how many new office buildings pop up. Might as well make the area more dense and have it be a tourist haven paralleled to indep. mall which is more or less a tourist trap already.

I'd argue the northeastern part of CC (if you consider that CC) is the worst in terms of appearance. Once you get north of Arch east of broad it's really not anything to write home about.

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by PhillySteaks

Hate to break it to you but Market East is the dumpiest part of center city, by far. It has LED billboards, touristy outlet stores (which will ironically be brand new) and about 1,000,000 SF of low quality GSA leased space. That's not going to change no matter how many new office buildings pop up. Might as well make the area more dense and have it be a tourist haven paralleled to indep. mall which is more or less a tourist trap already.

With all of the new projects happening along Market East, it would be an absolute waste to plop an Arena here. Seriously what is this damn obsession with a downtown arena on this forum? How on earth would this make Center City better?

Between the East Market project, the Gallery redevelopment, and now the new office tower proposal, let Market East continue on it's trajectory.

Keep the stadiums in South Philly and build a vibrant, urban neighborhood filled with shops, restaurants, nightlife, hotels, residential and office space Down there.

No point in building a stadium in a Downtown area which is already bustling and on the come-up. It would be a momentum killer.

Madison Square Garden was built in the 60s. Why are we deciding what we do in Center City Philadelphia based off of 60s real estate trends? Terrible idea. MSG was also built in a portion of Manhattan which was dumpy at the time. Now, they're thinking about demolishing it.

Downtown stadiums are built in Downtown's with no to little vibrancy: St. Louis, Los Angeles, New Orleans, etc. etc.

NO POINT in building a stadium or arena in Center City, taking up valuable land that could hold high rise office, residential and hotel towers with ground floor retail.

[McBane]

Originally Posted by summersm343

With all of the new projects happening along Market East, it would be an absolute waste to plop an Arena here. Seriously what is this damn obsession with a downtown arena on this forum? How on earth would this make Center City better?

Between the East Market project, the Gallery redevelopment, and now the new office tower proposal, let Market East continue on it's trajectory.

Keep the stadiums in South Philly and build a vibrant, urban neighborhood filled with shops, restaurants, nightlife, hotels, residential and office space Down there.

No point in building a stadium in a Downtown area which is already bustling and on the come-up. It would be a momentum killer.

Madison Square Garden was built in the 60s. Why are we deciding what we do in Center City Philadelphia based off of 60s real estate trends? Terrible idea. MSG was also built in a portion of Manhattan which was dumpy at the time. Now, they're thinking about demolishing it.

Downtown stadiums are built in Downtown's with no to little vibrancy: St. Louis, Los Angeles, New Orleans, etc. etc.

NO POINT in building a stadium or arena in Center City, taking up valuable land that could hold high rise office, residential and hotel towers with ground floor retail.

Yes, especially the text I bolded. I know we have this discussion on here every so often, but we just had this discussion a couple pages ago. It's not even like today is a slow news day, so what gives? Can we drop the stadium talk, at least for another few months?

[1487]

Originally Posted by summersm343

With all of the new projects happening along Market East, it would be an absolute waste to plop an Arena here. Seriously what is this damn obsession with a downtown arena on this forum? How on earth would this make Center City better?

Between the East Market project, the Gallery redevelopment, and now the new office tower proposal, let Market East continue on it's trajectory.

Keep the stadiums in South Philly and build a vibrant, urban neighborhood filled with shops, restaurants, nightlife, hotels, residential and office space Down there.

No point in building a stadium in a Downtown area which is already bustling and on the come-up. It would be a momentum killer.

Madison Square Garden was built in the 60s. Why are we deciding what we do in Center City Philadelphia based off of 60s real estate trends? Terrible idea. MSG was also built in a portion of Manhattan which was dumpy at the time. Now, they're thinking about demolishing it.

Downtown stadiums are built in Downtown's with no to little vibrancy: St. Louis, Los Angeles, New Orleans, etc. etc.

NO POINT in building a stadium or arena in Center City, taking up valuable land that could hold high rise office, residential and hotel towers with ground floor retail.

agreed. Stadiums do nothing 75% of the time, they are dead. And outside of NYC there are few inner city stadiums that aren't accompanied by huge amounts of parking nearby. No matter how you dress up the exterior of an arena at the end of the day it's a big box with 20k seats inside. Nothing about the stadium connects with the neighborhood or nearby buildings.

[Redddog]

Originally Posted by 1487

agreed. Stadiums do nothing 75% of the time, they are dead. And outside of NYC there are few inner city stadiums that aren't accompanied by huge amounts of parking nearby. No matter how you dress up the exterior of an arena at the end of the day it's a big box with 20k seats inside. Nothing about the stadium connects with the neighborhood or nearby buildings.

+another.

MSG and surrounding is an absolute pit. No one should be striving to replicate that.