Calgary Stoney Trail [Ring Road]

[Mazrim]

Originally Posted by Acey

But as it stands, the giant "STONEY TRAIL TURNS INTO TSUUT'INA TRAIL" signs they intend to use... so embarrassing I don't even want to look at those diagrams again. I can't understand why we have to be so different from everybody else.

Believe me, there are way more embarrassing signs (in my opinion) throughout Calgary than what this would be. But I'm thinking of super obvious errors being embarassing, not that a road has to change names at awkward spots, which is politics.

[speedog]

Maybe the best and easiest solution would be to just it call Highway 201.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by speedog

Maybe the best and easiest solution would be to just it call Highway 201.

That's racist!!

Signed numbers 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, and 9

[RWin]

Originally Posted by Acey

Since they didn't do it right from the beginning, I'd like to think the best solution at this point is one that does not involve changing the signs on the existing 70 km of Stoney.

I'd like to see them change all the signs to 110. Or even 120.

[The Chemist]

Originally Posted by Acey

Traffic already moves at that speed, I noticed it's much quicker than Henday because of way less enforcement. The new smell of the SE section has worn off but the abysmal lane discipline between Peigan and 22X remains. People simply have no idea what to do with 4 lanes.

I'm sorry, but Canadians don't get to complain about poor lane discipline. Until you've driven on a Chinese expressway, you don't know what poor lane discipline is.

[milomilo]

I almost don't blame drivers for not using the rightmost lanes, as they are almost certain to randomly end or turn off at some point (see Crowchild, Memorial, every road in the city etc...). That, or the incorrect position of offramps mean you have to use the left lane to leave the road.

[googspecial]

Originally Posted by milomilo

I almost don't blame drivers for not using the rightmost lanes, as they are almost certain to randomly end or turn off at some point (see Crowchild, Memorial, every road in the city etc...). That, or the incorrect position of offramps mean you have to use the left lane to leave the road.

Where in the city do you exit left off a road? I can't think of any off the top my head...

[Fuzz]

Only one I can think of is Crowchild North to University Drive.

[milomilo]

It's not actually as common on proper roads in Calgary as I first thought after looking - but yes that University Drive exit is one, Bow Trail - 10th Ave is another as well as Memorial - Crowchild. Having to merge into the left lanes on Deerfoot/Glenmore and Deerfoot/BBT also has the same effect, and you also have the lanes entering from the left on Crow/Bow. And of course Crowchild and other roads abruptly turn from freeways into roads with signals where you have to use the left lane to turn.

This means that at some point on many roads, people will have to move into a lane that isn't the rightmost, and I think many just pick their lane from the beginning and stick to it. Some are just oblivious though, like all the middle laners heading north on Crowchild NW.

There's also no actual freeways/motorways/autobahns, whatever you want to call them here, we just have big roads. In other countries these are legally different roads with different rules, and it is signed when you are on one (in the UK all motorway signs are blue). I'd like to see this in Alberta, although very few of our roads would actually meet any normal standard of freeway.

Australian freeway starts:


UK motorway ends:


It might be a little easier to educate/enforce rules if people had rules to follow.

[milomilo]

I don't recall any information on the roads stating that the 201/216 are freeways and any different to the roads you are exiting? Unless I'm mistaken (and I very well could be) they are still just big roads with effectively no different rules to a 2 lane residential street.

I too use the personal express lanes often - though more often on three lane hill climbs, where literally zero people ever move to the right lane, including trucks going 80km/h. We can't easily solve the obliviousness, but I think these sections are built wrong and encourage this behavior. On hill climbs, the new lane should be added on the left, so that by default traffic stays where it is on the right, and if you want to pass you move to the left.

I don't drive Stoney SE much so can't comment a lot, although it does seem 4 lanes is excessive with the constant lane drops/adds. I'd at least prefer this was implied by lane markings as a 3 lane road, with the right most lane only for exit/entry (which is essentially how it functions in practice).

[jeremy.r]

Originally Posted by Acey

Stoney and Henday are pretty much the epitome of freeway design in Canada, there are certainly no left exits.

Unless you count WB Stoney to SB Deerfoot on the SE leg.

There is also the planned WB Stoney to WB 22X on the SW leg, although you could argue that's a bit different since it's just to continue going west.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Only one I can think of is Crowchild North to University Drive.

There are a lot of roads where you have to enter Deerfoot from the left-hand lane. For example, 17 Ave. S.E. EB to Deerfoot NB, Memorial Dr. WB to Deerfoot SB, etc.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by jeremy.r

Unless you count WB Stoney to SB Deerfoot on the SE leg.

There is also the planned WB Stoney to WB 22X on the SW leg, although you could argue that's a bit different since it's just to continue going west.

In some cases having left exits on a freeway are okay and even necessary. Even Caltrans and TxDot build interchanges now that have left hand exits but of course those interchanges are very complex. The example you gave is perfectly fine as far as I'm concerned as it is well-marked and makes a lot of sense.

[jeremy.r]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

In some cases having left exits on a freeway are okay and even necessary. Even Caltrans and TxDot build interchanges now that have left hand exits but of course those interchanges are very complex. The example you gave is perfectly fine as far as I'm concerned as it is well-marked and makes a lot of sense.

Originally Posted by Acey

I don't because a) it's 3 lanes going left and two lanes going right; given that the 3rd lane immediately ends it serves no purpose other than to emphasize point b) which is that Alberta Transportation considers west-south and north-east to be the primary movements through that interchange (CANAMEX), and designed it as such.

I agree with you both - I guess I was just thinking that exiting left isn't necessarily an issue on it's own. The examples I gave are certainly different than the problem spots you were discussing. I'm not even sure if they should be called 'exits' or if there's a better term for these cases (splitting?).

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by Acey

For one, there are 'slower traffic keep right' signs on Stoney and Henday. Don't recall seeing any of those on the 2 lane residential streets in my neighbourhood. There are suggestions on how to drive on a highway versus a residential street in the Alberta Driver's Guide to Operation, not that anyone has ever read that.

Yeah but this is different to what I'm talking about, just suggestions that no one takes notice of, and the term 'highway' just means public road and can stretch from a gravel track to Stoney Trail and everything in between.

The USA has Interstates, France has Autoroutes, Germany Autobahns, the UK motorways etc. They are a different class of limited access road - only certain types of vehicles are allowed on them, they have strict design standards and may have their own body maintaining them. They are the backbone of the road network, it's clear when you are entering/exiting them, and once you are on them you can expect consistency of how the road operates. In Canada, Ontario has its 400 series and Quebec its Autoroutes, which achieve similar results although don't appear to be quite as clearly defined as the European examples.

It obviously wouldn't solve every problem, but having something like this in Alberta would at least allow us to tell people, once you are on a controlled access freeway, you are expected to drive in a certain way and the police would be able to enforce it.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by jeremy.r

I agree with you both - I guess I was just thinking that exiting left isn't necessarily an issue on it's own. The examples I gave are certainly different than the problem spots you were discussing. I'm not even sure if they should be called 'exits' or if there's a better term for these cases (splitting?).

Originally Posted by Acey

"Major split". Deerfoot/Macleod Trail down south of the river also classified as such.

Yeah, this is fine - if it's just the major road splitting off. If it's done right, you just stay in the same lane and carry on down the major road.

Bow Bottom trail is an example of it not done right. For some reason, BBT gets three of the lanes, and to continue on Deerfoot you have to move to one of the two left lanes. What an abomination of an interchange!

[lineman]

"Shafted" Calgary with Fish Creek Park?

[milomilo]

Yeah, while BBT interchange is a mess, I'm extremely glad we ended up with Fish Creek, one of the Calgary's best assets.

[Rollerstud98]

Yeah, why have a beautiful park when you can have a straighter road?

[craner]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

There are a lot of roads where you have to enter Deerfoot from the left-hand lane. For example, 17 Ave. S.E. EB to Deerfoot NB, Memorial Dr. WB to Deerfoot SB, etc.

True, but those aren't exits from the freeway itself.