The Metro Vancouver Retail Thread

[s211]

I think what needs to be separated out is the lack of retail spaces for large tenants versus the over-supply of smaller street CRU. This last discussion doesn't seem to factor that in, instead of talking about retail as if it were a single form of entity.

[LeftCoaster]

You're absolutely right, but only scratching the surface.

Too many people talk about retail space as a commodity. Good retail real estate is one of the most nuanced and subjective assets in the world, and the issues just begin at the size of units.

People who don't understand the industry just blather on about we need more of this or that, this should be here, that should be there, when in reality they have absolutely no idea of the demands and desires of the retailers themselves.

One needs to work for years in the industry before really understanding what makes good and bad retail space, from both a design and location point of view.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by Vin

Speaking of retail demand:

http://www.retail-insider.com/retail-insider/2016/12/luxury

DOWNTOWN LUXURY RETAIL DEAD, DON'T BUILD SHOPPING MALLS DOWNTOWN is what I got from the article.

[Conrad Yablonski]

I was thinking earlier in the week that we hadn't had the same old One Trick Pony grinding away/polluting threads with nauseating singlemindedness-Yet all Things Come to Those Who Wait.

[SpongeG]

wouldn't that old theatre on granville be renovated and ready by now if large space was needed? uniqlo could have opened a multi level store in one portion of it by now

[SpongeG]

hopefully the location works out for them

L'Éclair de Génie to Open 1st North American Retail Location

http://www.retail-insider.com/retail-insider/2016/12/lclair-de-gnie

[red-paladin]

I can't believe that another traditional urban mall would be built in future in downtown (or the larger core) after the failure of International Village.

[GeeCee]

I don't think the failure of International Village can be attributed to anything other than the way that it has been run - just like Henderson Place in Coquitlam.

[SpongeG]

this...



turned into this...


this would never happen...

[Pinion]

The old post office will essentially be a new mall won't it?

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by red-paladin

I can't believe that another traditional urban mall would be built in future in downtown (or the larger core) after the failure of International Village.

I'd love to see Vancouver with something equivalent to The Burlington Arcade in London, or the Galéries Vivienne in Paris. I don't think that's possible here for space reasons.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

DOWNTOWN LUXURY RETAIL DEAD, DON'T BUILD SHOPPING MALLS DOWNTOWN is what I got from the article.

Wrong, the article merely shows the increased density of Canadian suburb cities. Many of Toronto's suburbs are essentially becoming very high-density, and new town centres or "downtowns" are created. Same can be said about our own Metrotown and Brentwood Mall neighbourhoods. American downtowns are dead because they do not introduce high-density communities as much as Canadian cities do.

Originally Posted by red-paladin

I can't believe that another traditional urban mall would be built in future in downtown (or the larger core) after the failure of International Village.

Why "traditional"? Can't it be something more avant garde?

Originally Posted by GeeCee

I don't think the failure of International Village can be attributed to anything other than the way that it has been run - just like Henderson Place in Coquitlam.

So right.

Originally Posted by Pinion

The old post office will essentially be a new mall won't it?

Not really, it will be more like a huge box-style retail centre, with no interior galleries like a mall. More similar to Best Buy and Winners on Granville/Robson.

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

You're absolutely right, but only scratching the surface.

Too many people talk about retail space as a commodity. Good retail real estate is one of the most nuanced and subjective assets in the world, and the issues just begin at the size of units.

People who don't understand the industry just blather on about we need more of this or that, this should be here, that should be there, when in reality they have absolutely no idea of the demands and desires of the retailers themselves.

One needs to work for years in the industry before really understanding what makes good and bad retail space, from both a design and location point of view.

So why is there such a severe lack of space in downtown Vancouver? And why are we building so much in Burnaby, or even West Vancouver or Richmond? I would attribute all these to city-planning policies more than anything else. I may not understand retail as much as you do, but I do understand that the City of Vancouver is passing up on gaining more tax revenue from more retail businesses opening up in downtown, or anywhere else in Vancouver, and not to mention attracting even more tourists and visitors to this city.

[s211]

Originally Posted by Vin

So why is there such a severe lack of space in downtown Vancouver? And why are we building so much in Burnaby, or even West Vancouver or Richmond? I would attribute all these to city-planning policies more than anything else. I may not understand retail as much as you do, but I do understand that the City of Vancouver is passing up gaining more tax revenue from more businesses opening up in downtown, or even anywhere else in Vancouver, not to mention attracting even more tourists and visitors to this city.

Again and again, I will repeat that there is a comparative lack of large format retail space downtown, and there's a glut of CRUs.

Saying that there's a severe lack of space is a very incomplete statement.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by s211

Again and again, I will repeat that there is a comparative lack of large format retail space downtown, and there's a glut of CRUs.

Saying that there's a severe lack of space is a very incomplete statement.

Just a glut of overpriced wooden-shack CRUs in prime commercial areas, instead of the quality ones. Agreed that there is a lack of large format retail space. All these can be solved with a new mall.

[SpongeG]

i think that parking lot next to the queen e would make a great multilevel mall. wholefoods in the basement. a connection underground to stadium station. anchored by saks.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

i think that parking lot next to the queen e would make a great multilevel mall. wholefoods in the basement. a connection underground to stadium station. anchored by saks.

Unfortunately it's already spoken for. The new Art Gallery will definitely be there and no new mall planned, unless they decide to include one at the podium of the proposed twin towers at the north side of the parking lot.

[Vin]

A bit of Singapore is arriving in town.....

TWG Tea opening:

https://vansingdg.com/blogs/news-events/twg-tea-launches-in-vancouver

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by Pinion

The old post office will essentially be a new mall won't it?

It remains to be seen. Current plans are leaning more to what Vin described, however there remains an ability to configure for more LNM (Large non-major) space and smaller CRU. Either way the retail space is a bit of a dogs breakfast with the heritage column spacing and staggered elevations of the entrances.

Originally Posted by Vin

Wrong, the article merely shows the increased density of Canadian suburb cities. Many of Toronto's suburbs are essentially becoming very high-density, and new town centres or "downtowns" are created. Same can be said about our own Metrotown and Brentwood Mall neighbourhoods. American downtowns are dead because they do not introduce high-density communities as much as Canadian cities do.

Well that that article failed to mention explicitly, though it did so accidentally through its examples, is that the lux explosion in the suburbs is almost entirely a Toronto phenomenon.

The examples in Vancouver are Hugo Boss and Tiffany, not really strangers to mall style format.

Same with Calgary and Tiffany and Burberry, there was an attempt by CF to include an entire lux wing where Tiffany and burberry are but the retailers were not interested.

Edmontons example is even more comical, with plans to anchor a lux wing with a Simons. That wouldn't work in a lux heavy market, let alone a weak lux market like Edmonton who is likely to lose its Holts entirely.

Vancouver has a chance at adding lux to some of its suburban malls, but no one has done so yet. CF Richmond Centre and Oakridge are the two prime candidates to do this, with Metrotown being a distant third chance and Brentwood even further. Things can change but today the city remains a downtown focused lux retail market.

Originally Posted by Vin

So why is there such a severe lack of space in downtown Vancouver? And why are we building so much in Burnaby, or even West Vancouver or Richmond? I would attribute all these to city-planning policies more than anything else. I may not understand retail as much as you do, but I do understand that the City of Vancouver is passing up on gaining more tax revenue from more retail businesses opening up in downtown, or anywhere else in Vancouver, and not to mention attracting even more tourists and visitors to this city.

The City is not inhibiting anyone from building a new mall. Did you see how quickly they approved CF's addition to Pacific Centre? The city is more than happy with downtown retail expansions, it's the developers who are hesitant to build based off tepid demand from retailers.

There are certain pockets where a space is needed, such as a location for Saks, a downtown Simons (prime candidate for the Post site), Uniqlo etc... but these sites are not dime-a-dozen and the retailers will happily sit for years waiting for the right opportunity rather than transact on a subpar space. And you can't build a mall with two anchors and no meat on the bones.

One only needs to look to 745 Thurlow to see the fickle demand for retail downtown. The upper floor space located on one of the most sought after retail strips in the country and they couldn't lease it so they converted it to office.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Vin

Just a glut of overpriced wooden-shack CRUs in prime commercial areas, instead of the quality ones. Agreed that there is a lack of large format retail space. All these can be solved with a new mall.

Would something like Westlake Center in Seattle fit the bill?
It's modern and metallicin design.


... meanwhile, back up north in Vancouver ......... there is a question to be asked. A vital question, if I may

§

THIS CONCEPT WAS ORIGINALLY SUBMITTED BY retro_orange

Is there anywhere, from the CBD, to somewhere in the West End maybe as a geographical counterpoint to International Village- just east of the CBD - work?
I dont't think it would have to be all "metal and modern" either. It could be made of stone (or with a frame largely in stone - pink granite, green granite, white and black speckled granite, with
classical lines, something that fuses the Roman or European echo with a modern structure in keeping, and appropriate to, a North American city such as Vancouver. Am I wrong?
Streetside could echo the Classic Birks Building. I cite here, "à titre d'exemple,"
the idea by retro about redoing the Birks Building, elements of which lend themselves perfectly to a neoclassically designed building....



OK now, take the left third of this 3 part .... whatever it is. Forget the old Birks itself, and The Vancouver Block. But take the lines, form, curves and arches,
and do something based on that left 'third.'
If not, then at least integrate key elements into it. It is the perfect counterpoint to International village, and totally breaks new ground in the concept of the urban mall.
One could argue "oh;;; but it's too derivative." Many things are derivative. The VPL is derivate of the Roman Colosseum, the stately "half" if the RBC on W.Hastings in that
short but wonderful canyon that culminates with the Marine building and MNP complenting it so beautifully, 975 W. Hastings, (once DAON) an old timer, yet a game changer with
its gold and brick angled design; across, the 'stepup' of the shining nickel-plated Bank of Canada, corner parks, plaza-flush lighting, or..................

Are there are not blocks with mediocre, banal if functional, proprties that could be bought up, that are in the Downtown or West End area,
that might just handle this, esp with an A++ anchor store?
Beautiful stonework, beautiful and curving windows and corners, possible cafe space on the street/building side, but more in an internal "galleria" space
topped in a classicaly designed glass roof.
Being a brand new structure, there would of course be elevators criss-crossing it, and super name stores, a yet to be determined anchor,
perhaps mid-scale rather than BIG, (if there is such a thing.) Greenery, cafés and good eats street level, dream shopping above in an elegant building that echoes its Edwardian perdecessor.
***At any rate, this originally abandoned idea could just perhaps hold some keys to what people are looking for as an "urban mall."

[SpongeG]

the old theatre spot is fairly big on granville.

I imagined where japa dog etc is along robson being demolished with a mall going there and the parking lots behind. with an entrance on each street, seymour, robson and richards. demolish the useless buildings in the location.