The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal

Montréal will have a new regional transit agency, the RTM (Réseau Transport Métropolitain).

So will that cover everything including the AMT and suburban agencies like RTL?

[GreaterMontréal]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

So will that cover everything including the AMT and suburban agencies like RTL?

the RTM will manage the commuter trains. All the CIT's http://www.aqtim.qc.ca/fr/carte-interactive will be merged, managed by the RTM. The STM, the STL and the RTL will keep some independence. The ARTM ( Autorité Régionale des Transports) , will be in charge of the planning and the tariffs. All that to create a supra-regional transit agency.

[swimmer_spe]

Right now many of Canada's biggest cities are in the midst of various rail RT construction, from the newly opened Skytrain to the subway and metro extensions, to the LRT and Busways being built; it gets me thinking about how to keep this expansion going.

One of the things would be to not stop building. Once the line is done, a new line is constructed. When that is done, move on to the next. It isn't like those cities couldn't use more RT.

Here is how I see it happening. As one line has shovels in the ground, another line has their Environmental Assessment done. Once that EA is done, and the construction equipment is done on the first line, it gets refurbished and moved to the new line.

We could catch up to where we should be with our cities within 20 years.

[casper]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Right now many of Canada's biggest cities are in the midst of various rail RT construction, from the newly opened Skytrain to the subway and metro extensions, to the LRT and Busways being built; it gets me thinking about how to keep this expansion going.

One of the things would be to not stop building. Once the line is done, a new line is constructed. When that is done, move on to the next. It isn't like those cities couldn't use more RT.

Here is how I see it happening. As one line has shovels in the ground, another line has their Environmental Assessment done. Once that EA is done, and the construction equipment is done on the first line, it gets refurbished and moved to the new line.

We could catch up to where we should be with our cities within 20 years.

Having the same people shift from one project to the next sounds good. However in a world where all of these projects are subject to public tender it is just as likely to be completely different mix of contractors on the next project.

The idea of a sustained national transit building project does sound good in principle.

[MalcolmTucker]

You know the Feds did out a big effort in the budget. Not enough for multiple big projects in every jurisdiction mind you, but both Calgary and Edmonton will end the next ten years with new or under construction $4-6 billion projects.

In many places it is now lower levels of government that haven't adapted to the new pace of investment yet it seems!

[giallo]

The new Evergreen extension dealt with massive crowds on it's first Monday of operation. It was the first significant snowfall in downtown Vancouver in a couple of years.

• Video Link

[rbt]

Originally Posted by Mister F

Finch LRT I believe is under construction.

Not quite under construction. A contractor has been selected, agreements signed, and they're expecting to begin work in Spring. It would not be easy to cancel at this point (see gas plants scandal for cost of cancelling a signed tender).

[p_xavier]

Here is a new presentation document for the Montréal's REM. It answers most questions about the project.

https://www.cdpqinfra.com/sites/default/files/document/rem_synthese_21112016_en.pdf

[SpongeG]

i am in the process of watcing this one hopefully it fits the thread

• Video Link

[Mister F]

There aren't a lot of maps out there showing the extent of the RER system that's getting built but here's a pretty decent one from a Metrolinx report. They really should be doing a better job of advertising this. They're creating a huge rapid transit system and most people have no idea.



https://stevemunro.ca/2015/10/16/smarttrack-update-many-reports-many-unanswered-questions/comment-page-1/

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Sheppard LRT is shelved for the time being. Line 5 (Eglinton) now has extensions planned to UTSC in the east and Pearson Airport in the west.

When all of it is added up, I think Toronto's "rapid transit" system could very well be something in the neighbourhood of 300km by 2025.

That's pretty spot on actually. Lines 1, 5, and the soon to start Finch LRT are a total of 39 km. The RER in the map above is, by my rough estimate, around 190 km. Add it onto the current system and you get right around the 300 km mark.

I'd like to think that the first phase of the DRL will be well underway by then too, but who knows.

[osmo]

^^^ is 15 mins service really "rapid transit"?

It is an express service for sure but it is not rapid. In DC the Metro with its delays and wonky one-track parts puts trains at 12min intervals at many parts of the red line and the delay is noticeable and long.

I am happy to call the new Go service express rail but I don't think anybody is going to think of it a an replacement for true rapid service.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Mister F

There aren't a lot of maps out there showing the extent of the RER system that's getting built but here's a pretty decent one from a Metrolinx report. They really should be doing a better job of advertising this. They're creating a huge rapid transit system and most people have no idea.



https://stevemunro.ca/2015/10/16/smarttrack-update-many-reports-many-unanswered-questions/comment-page-1/


That's pretty spot on actually. Lines 1, 5, and the soon to start Finch LRT are a total of 39 km. The RER in the map above is, by my rough estimate, around 190 km. Add it onto the current system and you get right around the 300 km mark.

I'd like to think that the first phase of the DRL will be well underway by then too, but who knows.

How will GO RER be different that Smartrack?

[biguc]

Would it kill them to have frequent service into Hamilton?

[caltrane74]

Originally Posted by osmo

^^^ is 15 mins service really "rapid transit"?

It is an express service for sure but it is not rapid. In DC the Metro with its delays and wonky one-track parts puts trains at 12min intervals at many parts of the red line and the delay is noticeable and long.

I am happy to call the new Go service express rail but I don't think anybody is going to think of it a an replacement for true rapid service.

I don't know the stop placement, but in the core with electric trains you will likely have better than 15 minute service (Dundas West Subway/UPX Line/Kitchener Line). The overlapping lines is something DC does not have.

[Mister F]

Originally Posted by osmo

^^^ is 15 mins service really "rapid transit"?

It is an express service for sure but it is not rapid. In DC the Metro with its delays and wonky one-track parts puts trains at 12min intervals at many parts of the red line and the delay is noticeable and long.

I am happy to call the new Go service express rail but I don't think anybody is going to think of it a an replacement for true rapid service.

I think the word you're looking for is frequent, at least in the context of train headways. Speaking of the DC Metro, most of their lines have a 20 minute gap between trains at night. Same with Atlanta and some of the lines in Chicago. Nobody doubts that those lines qualify as rapid transit. GO frequencies will be higher where lines merge in the centre of the city, so frequencies there will be comparable to the subway and better than many if not most other North American rapid transit systems.

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

How will GO RER be different that Smartrack?

Not sure actually. Smarttrack always struck me as a John Tory back-of-the-napkin campaign promise. A fancy name for what Metrolinx was already doing on the same rail corridors. Hopefully it ends up as one cohesive, integrated system - the last thing transit in Toronto needs is more fragmentation.

Originally Posted by biguc

Would it kill them to have frequent service into Hamilton?

Apparently it's not so simple because the tunnel into downtown is controlled by CP. It will be getting hourly service according to that map.

[ssiguy]

Smart Tracks is just RER with one very noticeable exception.............it was to be run by the TTC at regular TTC fares. That's why it gained traction with the voting public and yet half of Torontonians haven't even heard of RER and even less will use it because, as it stands right now, it just more frequent GO service that few can afford to take.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by caltrane74

I don't know the stop placement, but in the core with electric trains you will likely have better than 15 minute service (Dundas West Subway/UPX Line/Kitchener Line). The overlapping lines is something DC does not have.

??

All the lines of the DC metro overlap in the central areas except for the Red line. And the red line has higher frequency than the others.

[ssiguy]

It's true that service every 15 minutes really doesn't qualify as true rapid transit. Yes the service will be regular and certainly fast but I always sort of consider rapid transit as one where you don't need a schedule and trains run at a maximum of every 8 minutes.

Remember thou that as the lines converge closer to downtown then the frequency will be higher and every 15 minutes is a minimum service level such as Sunday nights. I think the frequency on most of the lines will be closer to every 10 to 12 minutes during the day. The thing is that RER will also get rid of a slew of at-grade crossings being nearly 100% grade separated in the City of Toronto itself by the time it officially opens with electrifcation. As ridership increases and frequency with it there will be demand from the general public to get rid of all grade crossings in the RER as trains roll by every 6 minutes. It will play havoc on many roads so the political pressure will be there from both the drivers and transit {Conservative and Liberal voters} users to get rid of them.

The above would effectively become Metro system and, all dependent on the fares, could easily reach ridership levels of the current subway system over the next 15 to 20 years as frequency increases to near subway levels.

[swimmer_spe]

What GO RER will do for the GTA will be akin to what the first subway did for Toronto.

So what if it only runs every 15 minutes - it is an express route into town. If they coudl find a way to link up to the top of the Yonge side of the Subway they could effectively make an express subway system a la New York.

GO seems to always increase service as demand increases. So, if RER is well used, it may go from 15 minutes to something much more frequent.

[Aylmer]

We also have to remember that expected frequency is also a function of the distance/duration of travel. So if you're only going one station, having to wait 10 minutes for a vehicle seems like an eternity, but if you might not mind as much if you're going 20 stations. In the first case, your wait can take up almost 90% of your total trip time; In the latter, it might only be 20-30%.

So yes, the TTC subway passing every 15 minutes would be unacceptable because a lot of the trips are very short. But 15 minutes for RER would be acceptable because the distances are much longer.