LOS ANGELES | Downtown Project Rundown 6.0

[ChargerCarl]

Originally Posted by Resident

The intial streetcar will have 3 different "Loops" when it starts. You will have two cars that take the full lap around. You will also have two cars that go from fig to 7th to broadway to 11th to fig on repeat. You will have another two cars going 2nd to broadway to 7th to hill on repeat.


This is idiot proof transportation. There are plenty of people who visit DTLA for conventions or tourists and would never take a bus or subway but would take a streetcar. This will allow people to get around easily without getting lost. It will also serve a ton of area that doesn't have easy connections now. It will literally connected the entire main DTLA with public transportation.

What are the ridership projections? If it's just for tourists then there is no way this project passes the cost/benefit test.

[blackcat23]

Live/work units plus commercial space in the Arts District

[Mojeda101]

Originally Posted by ChargerCarl

What are the ridership projections? If it's just for tourists then there is no way this project passes the cost/benefit test.

Article says 6000 daily riders. I know I'm going to be one of them.

[Resident]

Originally Posted by DTLA-Joe

Love the idea of a streetcar, but dislike the one way route being implemented, totally useless if your at 11th and Broadway and want to go North on Broadway. Wish it was two way travel, or get rid of the big loop in south park.
Better idea IMHO, two way travel the length of Broadway with a two way cut over to Pico station.

I love it how you would like the streetcar to go only in your most desired route. What you proposed would totally cut out the convention center and LA Live, the two biggest places that tourists go and stay and the people who are most likely to use the streetcar and spend more $$$ because of it.

[ozone]

How is the streetcar being funded?

[black_crow]

Originally Posted by ozone

How is the streetcar being funded?

Well hopefully with Measure M because we (ca 70%) voted for it.

[cargocultpants]

Back in 2013 or so the property owners surrounding the route voted for a parcel/property tax surcharge, which is to provide most of the funding for the streetcar.

Originally Posted by black_crow

Well hopefully with Measure M because we (ca 70%) voted for it.

[Eightball]

How often do you ride transit ChargerCarl?

[DTLA-Joe]

Pico station IS the convention center / LA Live

Originally Posted by Resident

I love it how you would like the streetcar to go only in your most desired route. What you proposed would totally cut out the convention center and LA Live, the two biggest places that tourists go and stay and the people who are most likely to use the streetcar and spend more $$$ because of it.

[ChargerCarl]

Originally Posted by Eightball

How often do you ride transit ChargerCarl?

I ride the bus every weekday.

Im just having trouble imagining how this won't turn out to be an expensive boondoggle like Portland and DC's streetcars. A lot of you seem very uncritical despite the very glaring flaws inherent in this mode of transit and the failures of similar streetcar projects in the US.

[black_crow]

Originally Posted by cargocultpants

Back in 2013 or so the property owners surrounding the route voted for a parcel/property tax surcharge, which is to provide most of the funding for the streetcar.

They were waiting for Measure M that is what they told us and that's what they made public.

Originally Posted by ChargerCarl

I ride the bus every weekday.

Im just having trouble imagining how this won't turn out to be an expensive boondoggle like Portland and DC's streetcars. A lot of you seem very uncritical despite the very glaring flaws inherent in this mode of transit and the failures of similar streetcar projects in the US.

They want to expand the streetcar in Portland and it had only $5 million in federal funds.

Many people call it a huge success. This is just the beginning.


https://www.cnu.org/publicsquare/2016/08/24/50-million-riders-time-celebrate-portland-streetcar

The Portland Streetcar is one of the most successful and cost-effective economic development drivers anywhere in America in the new millennium.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2016/11/portland_eyes_streetcar_extens.html

Portland eyes streetcar extension in South Waterfront

http://koin.com/2016/04/18/where-we-live-the-portland-streetcar/

Portland’s streetcar system is considered a model for the nation.
Many other cities are building systems like the one in the Rose City.

D.C. might be different, but the streetcar is doing okay now. They took forever to get it ready and it was so slow that people walked faster.
Nobody should compare L.A. to Washington. L.A. will have more riders and the one in Washington is still free of charge.

They are even speaking about an expansion.

http://wamu.org/news/16/08/05/six_months_in_dc_streetcar_quietly_exceeds_low_expectations

D.C. Streetcar Quietly Exceeds Low Expectations Six Months In

[ChargerCarl]

It's quite literally faster to walk to your destination then take the streetcar in portland. It averages only 7mph. That they want to expand it isn't evidence that it's a worthy project. Remember opportunity cost: streetcars are expensive, and the premium spent on them over a bus route could be used on things like reduced headways, signal priority, off-board ticketing, etc.

You haven't really improved transit, you've just made it trendier instead of better.

I'm not saying this project will be a total failure, but if we're building something thats pretty much not done in Europe or Japan (curb running mixed traffic streetcars) then we should probably stop ourselves and ask whether we're really spending our money efficiently.

[Wally West]

Originally Posted by ChargerCarl

It's quite literally faster to walk to your destination then take the streetcar in portland. It averages only 7mph. That they want to expand it isn't evidence that it's a worthy project. Remember opportunity cost: streetcars are expensive, and the premium spent on them over a bus route could be used on things like reduced headways, signal priority, off-board ticketing, etc.

You haven't really improved transit, you've just made it trendier instead of better.

I'm not saying this project will be a total failure, but if we're building something thats pretty much not done in Europe or Japan (curb running mixed traffic streetcars) then we should probably stop ourselves and ask whether we're really spending our money efficiently.

Thanks for being the voice of reason here. $200 million can really go a long way such as improving the Pico Station which will likely suffer from the incoming higher ridership, expanding the Metro bikeshare program, or even just throwing that funding into the development of other lines (or that potential Red Line station in the Arts District).

I'm surprised to see a board which is quick to be critical of nearly every new project here, lots of posters are ignoring its obvious flaws.

[ChargerCarl]

Matt Yglesias has a good post on why the DC streetcar isn't only a waste of money, it's actively bad transit:

http://www.vox.com/2014/10/23/7048057/dc-streetcar-bad-transit

Details matter, as they do with every project. But this is a mode of transit that we should be inherently skeptical of in the US.

[bobcat]

I've certainly been critical of the streetcar and agree that's it's not a good use of transit funds. It made sense at the time it was conceived but not so much anymore. It's like the Grand Avenue Plan of transit projects.

But at this point I don't think there's any way to do anything about it, so I'm not going to waste my breath.

[ChargerCarl]

Pretty much. Unlike the DC streetcar it won't be a detriment, it will just be less efficient than other projects that could have been pursued.

[caligrad]

Interesting argument I had with a friend who is equally interested in new developments happening around LA and is what I like to call a "ghost follower" of this page.

We were downtown last night and his comment was

"Broadway should be turned into a promenade between 1st and Olympic or maybe 11th, similar the Santa Monica promenade with the only vehicle traffic being allowed would be the street car and limos for special events at the theaters and hotels "

Would something like that actually work with Broadway? cant avoid the numerous parking garages and driveways that we walked passed which was my red flag.

[Valyrian Steel]

Nah, that would create a ton of dead-ends for the side streets

[ChelseaFC]

Originally Posted by Valyrian Steel

Nah, that would create a ton of dead-ends for the side streets

To avoid that, you would essentially have to do the same for every other east-west street (4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, etc.) between Hill and Spring, thereby making everything on the outside a T-intersection. Would make deliveries and basic logistics nearly impossible for too many businesses.

[Doctorboffin]

^I think what would be nice is to turn the street into an Avenue. Provide a center full of large trees and maybe even some small cafes like in Santa Monica, but allow for a lane or two of traffic on either side. Plus the middle wouldn't have to go the whole way, but instead shift into middle of the street parking in places.