The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[p_xavier]

Originally Posted by flipv

LOL

If REM is built by the agreed timelines, I will eat my socks. This is Montreal we are talking about - the city of corrupt construction companies and crumbling infrastructure. Ya, I totally see a massive transit project being built in 5 years... Sure, kinda like those Dorval interchanges under construction for a decade now?

Actually the new Champlain bridge, Turcot, the 720 tunnel covering and the Bonaventure demolition are all on time/budget. And most of them are billions/hundreds of millions projects.

Dorval interchange was due to the governance of the rail industry, the CN and CP refused to collaborate and the federal governement refused to force them. This is a different issue altogether and not linked to corruption.

The better way of knowing corruption is to look for corruption, Québec is well ahead of other provinces in that case.

[flipv]

Originally Posted by d_jeffrey

Actually the new Champlain bridge, Turcot, the 720 tunnel covering and the Bonaventure demolition are all on time/budget. And most of them are billions/hundreds of millions projects.

Dorval interchange was due to the governance of the rail industry, the CN and CP refused to collaborate and the federal governement refused to force them. This is a different issue altogether and not linked to corruption.

The better way of knowing corruption is to look for corruption, Québec is well ahead of other provinces in that case.

None compare to the scope of REM.

If you really think a project with so much underground complexity will be delivered in about 5 years, you're smoking something potent and I may ask you for a hit.

The private sector can accelerate certain pieces, but a 5 year delivery of a massive, complex transit line with significant underground portions is living in dream land. Reality will hit soon enough and we'll start seeing some scope creep/timeline slip. This isn't China. You don't have access to a limitless pool of cheap resources and no environmental assessments. Right now, REM is nothing more than lines on a map - the complex engineering and design hasn't even really started yet.

[p_xavier]

Originally Posted by flipv

None compare to the scope of REM.

If you really think a project with so much underground complexity will be delivered in about 5 years, you're smoking something potent and I may ask you for a hit.

The private sector can accelerate certain pieces, but a 5 year delivery of a massive, complex transit line with significant underground portions is living in dream land. Reality will hit soon enough and we'll start seeing some scope creep/timeline slip. This isn't China. You don't have access to a limitless pool of cheap resources and no environmental assessments. Right now, REM is nothing more than lines on a map - the complex engineering and design hasn't even really started yet.

The CDPQ delivered in 4 years for Vancouver and I'm confident that they will in Montreal. The focus is to deliver one of the three lines by December 2020. The Environmental Assessment was sped up and it concludes this December.

[flipv]

Originally Posted by d_jeffrey

The CDPQ delivered in 4 years for Vancouver and I'm confident that they will in Montreal. The focus is to deliver one of the three lines by December 2020. The Environmental Assessment was sped up and it concludes this December.

Seriously? That is the definition of living in dream land.

[p_xavier]

Originally Posted by flipv

Seriously? That is the definition of living in dream land.

Yes and this project is bring presented by the mayor on how Montreal is becoming better at major prijects so failure is not an option for them.

[flipv]

Originally Posted by d_jeffrey

Yes and this project is bring presented by the mayor on how Montreal is becoming better at major prijects so failure is not an option for them.

As I said, I will eat my socks if this project is delivered in 4 years. We're not talking about a largely elevated line in suburban Vancouver, but a major transit line in dense Montreal with underground components. I don't see how this is doable in that timeframe. When are the next municipal/provincial elections? That might be the answer.

[p_xavier]

Originally Posted by flipv

As I said, I will eat my socks if this project is delivered in 4 years. We're not talking about a largely elevated line in suburban Vancouver, but a major transit line in dense Montreal with underground components. I don't see how this is doable in that timeframe. When are the next municipal/provincial elections? That might be the answer.

The major tunnel downtown is already built. The other tunnels are in an old dump, under a canal and at the airport. The stations at these places might be posing engineering difficulties but there have been results and optimized plans. The tunnels themselves are not at all engineering difficulties.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by flipv

As I said, I will eat my socks if this project is delivered in 4 years. We're not talking about a largely elevated line in suburban Vancouver, but a major transit line in dense Montreal with underground components. I don't see how this is doable in that timeframe. When are the next municipal/provincial elections? That might be the answer.

When it opens in 2020, you must post a link to a video of you removing your shoes and each sock one at a time and eating them.

[flipv]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

When it opens in 2020, you must post a link to a video of you removing your shoes and each sock one at a time and eating them.

And if it doesn't? What do I get?

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by flipv

And if it doesn't? What do I get?

The satisfaction you are right, and knowing that you do not have to taste what foot sweat is.

[flipv]

Originally Posted by d_jeffrey

The major unnel downtown is already built. The other tunnels are in an old dump, under a canal and at the airport. The stations at these places might be posing engineering difficulties but there have been results and optimized plans. The tunnels themselves are not at all engineering difficulties.

You are being incredibly optimistic for a Canadian. There is absolutely no chance REM will open by 2020. You can't even build underground stations in 4 years if you started tomorrow.

[flipv]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

The satisfaction you are right, and knowing that you do not have to taste what foot sweat is.

What about folks with foot fetishes?

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by flipv

What about folks with foot fetishes?

If he has one, then he may be hoping for it to be completed on time.

[p_xavier]

Originally Posted by flipv

You are being incredibly optimistic for a Canadian. There is absolutely no chance REM will open by 2020. You can't even build underground stations in 4 years if you started tomorrow.

Montreal built the Laval metro extension in that timeline, and yes, that included 4 stations.

[nephersir7]

Originally Posted by flipv

None compare to the scope of REM.

Actually, the new Champlain Bridge and the Turcot projects both have a comparable scope and budget. And the Champlain Bridge project has a timeline that is every bit as ambitious as the REM's.

Coupled together (they physically are), these projects are way more complex than the REM.

Originally Posted by flipv

This isn't China. You don't have access to a limitless pool of cheap resources and no environmental assessments. Right now, REM is nothing more than lines on a map - the complex engineering and design hasn't even really started yet.

That's not true. Environmental assesments are already a done thing. There have been hundreds of people working full-time on the project and its components since 2013. The complex engineering and design has already been underway for quite some time.

Starting this month, multiple large international consortia are dedicating huge amounts of resources to piece together the remaining engineering challenges by june 2017. That includes the companies who are currently working on the Champlain Bridge project.

I have no doubt all branches will be operational by the end of 2021

[flipv]

Originally Posted by nephersir7

Actually, the new Champlain Bridge and the Turcot projects both have a comparable scope and budget. And the Champlain Bridge project has a timeline that is every bit as ambitious as the REM's.

Coupled together (they physically are), these projects are way more complex than the REM.



That's not true. Environmental assesments are already a done thing. There have been hundreds of people working full-time on the project and its components since 2013. The complex engineering and design has already been underway for quite some time.

Starting this month, multiple large international consortia are dedicating huge amounts of resources to piece together the remaining engineering challenges by june 2017. That includes the companies who are currently working on the Champlain Bridge project.

I have no doubt all branches will be operational by the end of 2021

The Champlain Bridge is funded by the GoC because it is a vital economic link.

Turcot links the bridge to the rest of the network and was falling over.

REM does not have the same business case. Anyway, we can agree to disagree, but this myopic optimism is a bit amusing, especially from the city that takes a decade to build a simple interchange.

[p_xavier]

Originally Posted by flipv

The Champlain Bridge is funded by the GoC because it is a vital economic link.

Turcot links the bridge to the rest of the network and was falling over.

REM does not have the same business case. Anyway, we can agree to disagree, but this myopic optimism is a bit amusing, especially from the city that takes a decade to build a simple interchange.

Or I guess the engineers that worked for that interchange are now working in Toronto? How is that subway construction coming, and that crumbling Gardiner?

[flipv]

Originally Posted by d_jeffrey

Or I guess the engineers that worked for that interchange are now working in Toronto? How is that subway construction coming, and that crumbling Gardiner?

That crumbling Gardiner stood for 50 years before crumbling. Your interchanges don't make it past 20.

[TorontoDrew]

Here is the new Eglington Crosstown train leaving Thunder Bay some time last week on it's way for testing near Kingston. Photo from cbc.ca

I wonder if they chose grey to give it more of a subway look. Maybe it was done so our former mayor wouldn't confuse them with streetcars.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew

Here is the new Eglington Crosstown train leaving Thunder Bay some time last week on it's way for testing near Kingston. Photo from cbc.ca

I wonder if they chose grey to give it more of a subway look. Maybe it was done so our former mayor wouldn't confuse them with streetcars.

Maybe it has yet to be painted.