The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[Aylmer]

I'm still not convinced on the (rather inflexible) choice of technology, but using the Mount Royal tunnel with the new stations will completely redraw central Montreal's geography; UdeM will go from being 30 minutes from downtown to 2-3 minutes. Places now considered far from downtown (like eastern CDN) will now be "right beside it".

I still wish they'd go for a technology with less stringent infrastructure requirements (kinda like Paris's RER) so that the new trunk line can also welcome regional and intercity rail, but I'm almost willing to overlook that for the sheer transformational nature of the trans-mountain connection.

[GreaterMontréal]

it's now a $6B project. the link between Mcgill and Edouard-Montpetit is very important. The UdM is building a new state of the art campus in Outremont-Parc-Ex. There will now be a direct link between the UdM and the innovation district in Griffintown. incredible.

[ssiguy]

This is great news for Montreal. What will the frequency be? If the frequency is high they could more or less just consider these as new Metro lines.

[GreaterMontréal]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

This is great news for Montreal. What will the frequency be? If the frequency is high they could more or less just consider these as new Metro lines.

the frequency should be similar to the Metro , between Brossard and the A-40 station. 20km.

[Rico Rommheim]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

This is great news for Montreal. What will the frequency be? If the frequency is high they could more or less just consider these as new Metro lines.

Basically, the montreal 'metro' is about to double in size in the next 4-5 years as far as i'm concerned.

[GreaterMontréal]

200,000 ppd the 1st year.

[Mister F]

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew

I love how the vast majority of drivers in the GTA are up in arms over tolls one the Gardiner and DVP and don't seem to see a connection in transit funding and traffic congestion relief. People are saying businesses will move out of the core, retailers will lose out on 905 shoppers, or 905'ers shouldn't have to pay for TTC upgrades with tolls. Ridiculous. Unless the province and feds cough up more cash which they never do for Toronto the city needs to find a constant source of revenue. We should have been tolling those two hwy's for revenue the day after Mike Harris off loaded them onto the city.

I wouldn't say the vast majority are up in arms about it. Tolls have been talked about for so long that there's a feeling of inevitability about them. The biggest sentiment I've been hearing is that transit replacements have to be in place before any tolls are in place. We'll probably have 5 GO lines with frequent all day service by the time the DVP and Gardiner have tolls, and they might be electrified by then too. Ditto the Eglinton line. A lot of people are completely unaware of the RER work that's being done or how transformational it has the potential to be.

[p_xavier]

Originally Posted by Rico Rommheim

Basically, the montreal 'metro' is about to double in size in the next 4-5 years as far as i'm concerned.

With the REM using larger vehicles than the métro, and with 100m trains and 90s, the REM is now officially "heavier" than the métro.

[franktko]

Stations are still planned to be 80m long, nothing has changed on that front.

[GreaterMontréal]

Originally Posted by franktko

Stations are still planned to be 80m long, nothing has changed on that front.

there is a pic with 5 cars, in the PDF.

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by d_jeffrey

With the REM using larger vehicles than the métro, and with 100m trains and 90s, the REM is now officially "heavier" than the métro.

GO is heavier than the Toronto subway right?

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

I'm still not convinced on the (rather inflexible) choice of technology, but using the Mount Royal tunnel with the new stations will completely redraw central Montreal's geography; UdeM will go from being 30 minutes from downtown to 2-3 minutes. Places now considered far from downtown (like eastern CDN) will now be "right beside it".

I still wish they'd go for a technology with less stringent infrastructure requirements (kinda like Paris's RER) so that the new trunk line can also welcome regional and intercity rail, but I'm almost willing to overlook that for the sheer transformational nature of the trans-mountain connection.

I sort of lamented that aspect as well at first, but really, why would it benefit much from being open for regional and intercity rail? This project is replacing the current busiest commuter rail line, and the other two that operate north mountain have a combined ridership of 18,100 per day, compared to the projected 200,000 of the new system. that's only about 9%. Even if the new system lost all those riders because of the transfer, I wouldn't be surprised if it gained at least a 9% boost in ridership and efficiency from being automated.

But of course, it's unlikely to loose all of those 18,100 riders anyway.

[ssiguy]

GO as it stands right now, is just a commuter train service. RER will be electrified and a maximum of 15 minute service. More like a suburban rail system of Melb/Syd. Montreal looks like it's building real rapid transit while Toronto's will be of limited expense as it stands right now.

[ToxiK]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

I sort of lamented that aspect as well at first, but really, why would it benefit much from being open for regional and intercity rail? This project is replacing the current busiest commuter rail line, and the other two that operate north mountain have a combined ridership of 18,100 per day, compared to the projected 200,000 of the new system. that's only about 9%. Even if the new system lost all those riders because of the transfer, I wouldn't be surprised if it gained at least a 9% boost in ridership and efficiency from being automated.

But of course, it's unlikely to loose all of those 18,100 riders anyway.

Having to transfer to the REM might be annoying for some of the users of the Mascouche line, but they will now have a quicker access to the green and blue line, not only the Bonaventure station. It will be a great advantage for students of McGill and Université de Montréal.

[flipv]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

GO as it stands right now, is just a commuter train service. RER will be electrified and a maximum of 15 minute service. More like a suburban rail system of Melb/Syd. Montreal looks like it's building real rapid transit while Toronto's will be of limited expense as it stands right now.

RER is the most transformative investment in Canadian public transit period. It will remake Toronto commuter patterns. You will have a radiated rapid transit link around the entire GTA. 15 mins service is actually common in many subway systems.

[Aylmer]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

GO as it stands right now, is just a commuter train service. RER will be electrified and a maximum of 15 minute service. More like a suburban rail system of Melb/Syd. Montreal looks like it's building real rapid transit while Toronto's will be of limited expense as it stands right now.

Though the REM's trunk will have 3-6 minute frequencies all day, the branches will run as infrequently as every 15-20 minutes off-peak. I would argue that the REM is actually quite similar to the RER in that respect.

But the RER has the advantage of also allowing longer-distance trains to head downtown as well instead of, say, asking everyone from Barrie to transfer before heading into town. In my opinion, that flexibility is an advantage; you can expand the system more easily and further by allowing hybrid trains which might serve as a metro in the trunk, then serve as regional rail on its branch. And as demand increases on a certain branch, you can decide to electrify it, double-track it and eventually run higher and higher frequencies. However, with the Skytrain model, you have to have shorter lines (because of cost and an inability to have at-grade crossings of even the smallest of streets) and you can't gradually upgrade to it either (except perhaps single-track a branch).
I think that the two major advantages of the Skytrain are low headways and lower staffing requirements. But I think that the former could be compensated by longer trains and the latter is compensated by lower capital costs.

[Nouvellecosse]

I guess what it comes down to, is what proportion of people will be coming from those outer areas that would benefit from not having a transfer. If it's a very small proportion, one would have to question the wisdom of making technology compromises that affect the whole system solely for their benefit.

And of course, if the proportion of riders coming from further out increases, the core system can always be expanded to reach more of them. After all, the strength of a suburban system like like this is you can afford to expand the high frequency service to much more distant areas compared to a conventional urban-focused metro. Just look how far BART extends. One of their lines literally extends about 56km away from downtown SF. That would be the equivalent of reaching from downtown Montreal to Saint Jerome.

[Martin Mtl]

Originally Posted by Rico Rommheim

Basically, the montreal 'metro' is about to double in size in the next 4-5 years as far as i'm concerned.

For anyone visiting the city, it will all be the "metro". All of it. Now let's see if they can build that in four years, like they did the first lines of the metro back in the 60´s.

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

Though the REM's trunk will have 3-6 minute frequencies all day, the branches will run as infrequently as every 15-20 minutes off-peak. I would argue that the REM is actually quite similar to the RER in that respect.

But the RER has the advantage of also allowing longer-distance trains to head downtown as well instead of, say, asking everyone from Barrie to transfer before heading into town. In my opinion, that flexibility is an advantage; you can expand the system more easily and further by allowing hybrid trains which might serve as a metro in the trunk, then serve as regional rail on its branch. And as demand increases on a certain branch, you can decide to electrify it, double-track it and eventually run higher and higher frequencies. However, with the Skytrain model, you have to have shorter lines (because of cost and an inability to have at-grade crossings of even the smallest of streets) and you can't gradually upgrade to it either (except perhaps single-track a branch).
I think that the two major advantages of the Skytrain are low headways and lower staffing requirements. But I think that the former could be compensated by longer trains and the latter is compensated by lower capital costs.

RER will have greater frequencies in some small sections too as lines merge together, though not all stations will be served in some stretches. Stations like Danforth and Scarborough will see 7.5 minute service as both Stouffville and Lakeshore East RER lines will serve them.

[swimmer_spe]

When GO introduces RER, the GTA really needs to introduce simple fare zones. It could be as simple as each Region (York, Durham, Peel, etc) is it's own zone. This would make the RER more effective at truly transforming how people move in the city and the GTA as a whole.

Problem is, no one wants to give up control of their transit.