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  #621  
Old Posted Oct 7, 2016, 2:10 AM
Mikeed Mikeed is offline
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Originally Posted by HighwayStar View Post
I keep thinking no wonder our system costs $3.65, while Toronto is $3.25.. and NYC is $3.
Subsidies make a huge difference in the fare box price. I can't find the video I was looking for, but the true price to cover the cost of subway operations at the farebox would be closer to $10 a ride. The quick research tells me that there is a $7 subsidy per ride on the NYC.

There is an observation of economics of the NYC subway called the "Pizza Principle" which states that "noted in 1980 that from the early 1960s "the price of a slice of pizza has matched, with uncanny precision, the cost of a New York subway ride."

As a transit service that costs $10/ride is unusable. The fare box price of transit is inherently an act of politics and the answer to a number of questions of economics and public service in the name of the commonwealth.
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  #622  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2016, 11:02 PM
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City's plan for LRT flyover in park angers homeowners

Jon Willing, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: November 21, 2016 | Last Updated: November 21, 2016 4:08 PM EST




Homeowners near Connaught Park say they didn’t know the city wants to build an LRT flyover through the greenspace, but their councillor maintains there was plenty of warning.

“It’s not just a couple of wackos saying we don’t like this,” David Sharpe said Monday morning after participating in a rush-hour protest involving about 15 people on Carling Avenue. “We have some substance to this.”

Sharpe said they’re shocked about the city’s intention to build a train bridge south of Lincoln Fields in the Pinecrest Creek corridor and equally stunned that they didn’t learn about the plan until a public meeting in September.

“I’m thinking, it’s turning in to a carnival,” Sharpe said of the flyover. “The whole integrity of the park will be gone forever. The view of many in the community is we weren’t consulted properly.”

Coun. Mark Taylor, who represents the Queensway Terrace North community, said there have been emails sent through the community association, flyers delivered to homes and information spread through social media. There have been numerous community meetings on the LRT extension since 2013, Taylor said.

One meeting with fresh designs happened in April 2015.

In 2013, the city announced a $3-billion plan to expand municipal rail service in multiple directions.

That meant the western stretch of the Stage 2 LRT expansion would send trains in two directions once they pass Lincoln Fields travelling westbound. Some trains would go west to Bayshore Shopping Centre and others will head south for Algonquin College.

The city wants to put the rail junction in the National Capital Commission greenspace between Carling Avenue and the Queensway where the Transitway currently runs. Westbound trains would enter a tunnel at the southwest corner of Connaught Park.



A 1996 plan called for a bus tunnel to begin in Connaught Park, which has long been considered part of a future transit corridor. The city then considered bypassing the park and scrubbing the tunnel by running the rapid transit route along the highway instead, but it would have required expropriating 25 homes on Roman Avenue. The city scrapped the idea in 2011.

Taylor said the new LRT plan is better for residents because the existing Transitway in the area will eventually be ripped out and grassed over.

“You’re getting rid of all the diesel buses that go through there,” Taylor said, adding that new trees will be planted to mask the rail line.

Still, residents who live beside the park fear a rail bridge sullying their backyard vistas. The bridge will be five metres above ground at its highest point.

Wayne Shimoon, who lives on Connaught Avenue, said he grew up in the community and has used the park his whole life. The 42-year-old father of three fears the park will become useless if there’s a flyover built in the middle of it.

“Having a big structure through a neighbourhood like that is stressful,” Shimoon said.

He believes traffic on Connaught Avenue will increase with people looking for parking near an LRT station. Property values along the park are also at risk, he said.

“The only thing we can do now is make noise,” Shimoon said. “It’s got to be changed completely.”

However, Taylor said the LRT route through the corridor isn’t subject to change.

“Is it subject to improvement? Yes, absolutely,” Taylor said.

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http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/citys-plan-for-lrt-flyover-in-park-angers-homeowners
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  #623  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2016, 1:42 AM
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Could someone explain in simple terms why this flyover is necessary....

I'm sure I'm missing something... but why not just branch left-right at the switch and head off in the respective directions?

Why branch right-left and flyover??
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  #624  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2016, 1:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighwayStar View Post
Could someone explain in simple terms why this flyover is necessary....

I'm sure I'm missing something... but why not just branch left-right at the switch and head off in the respective directions?

Why branch right-left and flyover??
Probably so East bound trains don't have to cross over opposing traffic to join the line.
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  #625  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2016, 2:12 AM
SkeggsEggs SkeggsEggs is offline
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Perhaps they need the flyover to keep the transitway open during construction?
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  #626  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2016, 2:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Harley613 View Post
Probably so East bound trains don't have to cross over opposing traffic to join the line.
But with the crossover... North/East bound trains will have to cross opposing (Bayshore bound) traffic to join the line ... and Bayshore bound trains will cross Northbound trains...

Still seems like a 6 one, 1/2 dozen thing...
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  #627  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2016, 2:54 AM
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Pardon my terrible artistic skills but I believe the picture posted in the article is slightly off. The 'Transitway' they are showing will be removed and grassed over post rail construction. If you look closely you can see a LRT train also going under the flyover. I believe the switch and flyover will work like this:


Created by me (not an artist).

So this way the trains never need to cross opposing direction trains. I believe the flyover is mostly to keep connectivity of the creek and the pathway beside it. Otherwise there would be no way for people to safely cross the track as there will be no at grade crossings as there currently are between the current Queensway Stn and Baseline Stn.

Edit to add this:

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  #628  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2016, 2:54 AM
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The tracks also have to clear Pinecrest Creek and the pathway. The flyover accomplishes all that. The guy's statement that the "whole integrity of the park will be gone forever"seems a little ridiculous as a flyover is way better than the train running at grade and creating a physical barrier.
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  #629  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2016, 3:48 AM
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Makes perfect sense...

Thanks MountainView... Your perfect artistic skills provide the exact explanation

And Kitchissippi.. I fully agree... it will add sort of a cool hi-techy vibe to the overall park/path.. especially with the transitway gone..
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  #630  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2016, 4:08 AM
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I take a very dim view of NIMBYs complaining about a project in the final weeks of a multi-year design & consultation process. If they're so fussy about what goes near that creek why didn't they speak up in 2014?
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  #631  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2016, 12:33 PM
eltodesukane eltodesukane is offline
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The whole integrity of the park is already gone with the transitway cutting it in two, with no way to cross except for the pedestrian bridge at Woodroffe High School.
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  #632  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2016, 1:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketphish View Post
“It’s not just a couple of wackos saying we don’t like this,” David Sharpe said Monday morning after participating in a rush-hour protest involving about 15 people on Carling Avenue. “We have some substance to this.”
No. It is a bunch of wackos who resist change even if it makes things better for them.
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  #633  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2016, 3:33 PM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
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Originally Posted by roger1818 View Post
No. It is a bunch of wackos who resist change even if it makes things better for them.
How does it make it better for them? Where is the closest LRT stop?

Not defending their actions here but still.
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  #634  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2016, 3:50 PM
AndyMEng AndyMEng is offline
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
How does it make it better for them? Where is the closest LRT stop?

Not defending their actions here but still.
1. Transitway changed to train line. Hundreds of smelly, dirty diesel buses taken out of their back yards. That alone is a bonus.
2. There's a new stop just a block away, at the Pinecrest garage location.
3. At least the train will only touch the park at a minimum where it converts from bridge to tunnel. It could be just overland the whole way and chop up the park even more.
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  #635  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2016, 3:59 PM
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
How does it make it better for them? Where is the closest LRT stop?

Not defending their actions here but still.
Less diesel fumes. No disturbance of the creek bed. Grade separated bike path. The LRT has to go through here, the other alternative is not to build it at all. This flyover is 200 metres from anybody's backyard, and at 5 metres high, nobody is going to see it over their fences nor hear it over the din of the Queensway.

I'm playing a nano violin for the guy who fears the park will become useless if there’s a flyover built in the middle of it. What does he do in there that he will no longer be able to do when the flyover is there? Why would he find the structure stressful over the other viaducts that cross that greenspace?
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  #636  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2016, 4:10 PM
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Maybe the City should show them the other 2 options:

- At grade trains separated by an 8 foot tall chain-link fence with barb wire on top or;
- A tunnel that can be paid for by the local residents of the area. I'm sure they would appreciate a 10 million dollar tax bill to protect their precious park.
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  #637  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2016, 4:47 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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"City's plan for LRT flyover in park angers homeowners"

That's a subset of "City's plan for X angers homeowners."

True for any value of X.
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  #638  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2016, 5:04 PM
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
Where is the closest LRT stop?
For those north of Henley St, it will likely be Lincoln Fields. For those south of Henley St, Queensview.
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  #639  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2017, 3:41 AM
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NCC launches Nepean Point rejuvenation, approves Ottawa western LRT plan

By Kate Porter, CBC News Posted: Jan 19, 2017 5:06 PM ET Last Updated: Jan 19, 2017 5:06 PM ET


<snip>

West LRT design approved

The NCC board also approved the functional design and alignment of the City of Ottawa's tracks for the western portion of its light rail system.

The tracks would go through federal lands in a tunnel under the Sir John A. Macdonald Parkway, as well as when the line runs through the Pinecrest Creek area.

A few years ago, the western LRT created acrimony between the city and the NCC, but the two parties reached an agreement last spring.

The stretch approved Thursday is part of the second phase of Ottawa's light rail project, and the city needed this NCC board approval to take its next steps, such as putting out the request for proposals.

Mayor Jim Watson anticipates that RFP to go out in May or June, and says those tracks are still expected to open in 2023.

Focus on regional transportation

Ottawa's light rail project wasn't the only transportation file to be discussed at the NCC board meeting. For the first time, a half hour was set aside to talk about regional transportation issues, a segment that the NCC's leadership hopes will become a regular feature.

Both Ottawa mayor Jim Watson and Gatineau mayor Maxime Pedneaud-Jobin, who are non-voting members, gave updates about their transit plans. They said they intend for the two cities to work together on transit files, and hoped to not need top-down direction from the NCC.

For instance, in the coming weeks, they plan to announce how they hope to make the transition to light rail seamless for transit riders using both OC Transpo and Société de transport de l'Outaouais (STO).

"We don't want to remove all our buses on Slater and Albert just to have them replaced by STO buses," said Watson. At the same time, he acknowledged the Gatineau buses need to go places like the University of Ottawa and the Rideau Centre.

As for future plans, Watson said after the second phase of light rail is underway, finding a way to repair and use the Prince of Wales rail bridge for transit over the Ottawa River could become a priority.

<snip>

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ncc-meeting-nepean-point-lrt-transit-1.3942853
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  #640  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2017, 1:28 AM
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