Great Canadian Skyline Thread II

[Marshal]

Interesting. What project is that from?

The only way that makes sense is if it is a slab on grade where there would be no other place to run duct work. The simple/minimal re-bar layout tells you it is a slab on grade.

Regardless, that would never be a typical condition in standard construction. Why? Cost. The typical is to suspend ducts below the slab. There is no reason to use extra concrete to encase ducts. Conduit on the other hand is small and has only minimal structural impacts on a slab. Another factor here is duct design. Optimal is to have as little surface area relative to volume of air flow. This is because of wanting as little friction against the air flow as possible. Cost savings come from less material used and smaller fans and other systems.

[koops65]

Yorkville:

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

Yonge Street:

[IMG][/IMG]
Pix by me today.

[logan5]

Originally Posted by Marshal

Interesting. What project is that from?

The only way that makes sense is if it is a slab on grade where there would be no other place to run duct work. The simple/minimal re-bar layout tells you it is a slab on grade.

Regardless, that would never be a typical condition in standard construction. Why? Cost. The typical is to suspend ducts below the slab. There is no reason to use extra concrete to encase ducts. Conduit on the other hand is small and has only minimal structural impacts on a slab. Another factor here is duct design. Optimal is to have as little surface area relative to volume of air flow. This is because of wanting as little friction against the air flow as possible. Cost savings come from less material used and smaller fans and other systems.

Like i said, that is a typical construction technique for almost every residential tower in North America and probly the world.

If you look on balconies of any concrete tower built downtown, you will see soffit outlets lined up in a row allthe way up the balconies. Those are the outlet points for kitchen exhaust and bathroom exhaust from in slab duct on every residential floor. Most of these slabs that contain slab duct are 8 inches thick. The exception where there uis no slab duct might be very tall concrete towers, where too much slab duct would weaken the structure to the point of possible structural failure.

One advantage might be lower floor to ceiling height, maybe yielding an extra floor or 2. Probly faster to install too.

[mistercorporate]

by Logan at UT


by anonymous0024 at UT

[MonkeyRonin]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/francislm/30931464336/

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by Marshal

Interesting. What project is that from?

The only way that makes sense is if it is a slab on grade where there would be no other place to run duct work. The simple/minimal re-bar layout tells you it is a slab on grade.

Regardless, that would never be a typical condition in standard construction. Why? Cost. The typical is to suspend ducts below the slab. There is no reason to use extra concrete to encase ducts. Conduit on the other hand is small and has only minimal structural impacts on a slab. Another factor here is duct design. Optimal is to have as little surface area relative to volume of air flow. This is because of wanting as little friction against the air flow as possible. Cost savings come from less material used and smaller fans and other systems.

There are hundreds of condos with this across Canada with ducting inside the suspended slabs.

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by logan5

Like i said, that is a typical construction technique for almost every residential tower in North America and probly the world.

If you look on balconies of any concrete tower built downtown, you will see soffit outlets lined up in a row allthe way up the balconies. Those are the outlet points for kitchen exhaust and bathroom exhaust from in slab duct on every residential floor. Most of these slabs that contain slab duct are 8 inches thick. The exception where there uis no slab duct might be very tall concrete towers, where too much slab duct would weaken the structure to the point of possible structural failure.

One advantage might be lower floor to ceiling height, maybe yielding an extra floor or 2. Probly faster to install too.

It is definitely not typical construction for almost every residential tower in North America. I've seldom seen it here in Ontario. I don't know if it costs or stricter codes.

[Marshal]

I could explain more (i.e., how the little outlets on balconies are configured) but you are convinced of what you think is the case. So carry on just making it up from the little you see in a few photos here and there. Like I said, I'm not going to argue with you, so, I'm done. Back to skylines.

[WhipperSnapper]

Damn you're annoying. Yeah, you're not arguing. Yeah, we're all a bunch of fanboys compared to you.

http://www.eccoduct.com/

[logan5]

Nobody is that dumb. Its now apparent he is trolling.

[craner]

Originally Posted by logan5

Like i said, that is a typical construction technique for almost every residential tower in North America and probly the world.

If you look on balconies of any concrete tower built downtown, you will see soffit outlets lined up in a row allthe way up the balconies. Those are the outlet points for kitchen exhaust and bathroom exhaust from in slab duct on every residential floor. Most of these slabs that contain slab duct are 8 inches thick. The exception where there uis no slab duct might be very tall concrete towers, where too much slab duct would weaken the structure to the point of possible structural failure.

One advantage might be lower floor to ceiling height, maybe yielding an extra floor or 2. Probly faster to install too.

I can confirm this is done in Calgary - I've worked on a few residential towers with this type of in-slab exhaust ducting exactly as you describe.

[ZeDgE]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

[IMG]https://c5.staticflickr.com/6/5601/30970453116_d3463a314a_k.jpg[IMG]
by Logan at UT

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/HjttN4p.jpg[IMG]
by anonymous0024 at UT

That first pic is absolutely amazing.

[Marshal]

Whoa, no need to get so upset guys. First, my last post was part of an exchange with Logan5 and was not a reaction to you WhipperSnapper. I just wanted to stop this discussion on this thread.

What I should have said was that yes, short runs of single unit sourced venting (bathrooms and kitchens and gas appliances), which are quite small in cross section are run through slabs, though mostly in a drop in the slab. Either way, you are both correct.

Everything I have been talking about reflects back to the original photograph and question from speedog.

So, how about this: there are no large long span arrangements of duct-work in slabs. And Whippersnapper: 1) any additional element, like all of these things, has cost associated with it and how its done, 2) the introduction of items in concrete work does effect the engineering of it, but there are no code issues per se. Of course, both conduit and duct-work are in themselves governed by their associated codes (Electrical, Fire (due to the introduction of penetrations through fire barriers - a slab is a good example), and Plumbing/HVAC).

You guys shouldn't get offended by what is essentially an internet fiction (me) - of which we all are. I'm always happy to discuss, but not so much argue and bore everyone else. We have probably done that anyway.

[mistercorporate]

by RoofTopper on Flickr

[Martin Mtl]

/\ Very impressive!




https://www.instagram.com/p/BM9LN-5DGVu/?taken-by=shan_canuel


https://www.instagram.com/p/BM8ch1UBXSf/?taken-by=djxhurricane


https://www.instagram.com/p/BM8TIThhGtZ/?taken-by=ingostudio


https://www.instagram.com/p/BM86kc_hgWI/?taken-by=collin.lauzon


https://www.instagram.com/p/BM7A6JCAD-f/?taken-by=mtl_squad

[Monolith]

Vancouver Skyline by _Vee_, on Flickr


Vancouver Nightscape-19 by Robert Henrickson, on Flickr https://www.flickr.com/photos/hemivison/...owQSR-LgKhiz-LkEbhN-LmrPZ1-KsF9MV-KsFEQa


DSC_0019 by Adrian De Lisle, on Flickr https://www.flickr.com/photos/adriandelisle/30738180270/in/dateposted/

[Gresto]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

by RoofTopper on Flickr

The classical Toronto CBD shot, taken from CN's Skypod. Amazingly, not a whole lot has changed in that view in the last 25 years.

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by Gresto

The classical Toronto CBD shot, taken from CN's Skypod. Amazingly, not a whole lot has changed in that view in the last 25 years.

Trump Tower, INDX Condos, E&Y Tower, Deloitte Tower, 88 Scott St. Tower, the developments at Yonge-Dundas Square?

Though certainly, North and South of that area have had more dramatic changes.

[Marshal]

Yes, an awful lot has changed in that view, though the Banking Towers show as strongly as ever.

I have loved that view since I was a kid and it would show up over the years in the Toronto Star and several magazines. In fact, besides being a great perspective, it has also given us a very good record of the changes over time (esp. shots with a slightly wider angle).

[Gresto]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

Trump Tower, INDX Condos, E&Y Tower, Deloitte Tower, 88 Scott St. Tower, the developments at Yonge-Dundas Square?

Though certainly, North and South of that area have had more dramatic changes.

Trump and Bay-Adelaide 1 are just poking through between FCP and Scotia. 1KW is peeking out from behind Commerce Court. INDX is barely visible behind (barf) E&Y. I can't see 88 Scott at all.
My point is that those who don't know any better (unlike us skyscraper geeks) would be hard-pressed to discern much of a difference between the present view and that of 25 years ago.