Calgary International Airport II

[Cage]

Originally Posted by Mazrim

Sitting in transborder lounge right now and watched a bunch of people race off to their gate when the screen announced their number. Would YYC rather you wait for boarding to start before heading to the gate or is everyone supposed to stand for 45 minutes at the gate?

Call to gate at 45 minutes.

Start pre-boarding at 35 minutes.

General boarding at 30 minutes.

Substantially complete boarding at 15-20 minutes.

Doors close at 10 minutes.

On time departure at 0 minutes.

Passenger standing around time for a call to gate system should be less than 15 minutes plus 5 minutes for walking to the gate.

Its an airline problem if they post a delay immediately prior to flight time. where pax are standing around.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

Ah, so desune. Then the walk from gate to Red Arrow is forever and ever.

It is a problem with larger airports that have larger members.

[thenoflyzone]

From aircanada.com

http://beta.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/home/book/travel-news-and-updates.html#/accordion_2228_title_2

"Due to a change in policy on the part of the Calgary Airport Authority, passengers departing from the new international terminal building to an international or U.S. destination are no longer able to use the “C” security screening point. This unfortunately means that if you are eligible for lounge access and are departing to an International or U.S. destination, you will no longer be able to access the Air Canada Maple Leaf Lounge located in concourse C. We are working to restore access for our eligible customers and regret the inconvenience this situation may cause."

That sucks....

Also, as of Oct 31, YYC officially participates in the CTP program.

http://beta.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/home/book/travel-news-and-updates.html#/accordion_2228_title_1

That unsucks!

Too bad HU isn't an approved airline. Hopefully YUL will follow suit.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/ctp/eligibility.asp

[Cage]

Originally Posted by Acey

Is it fair to assume Air Canada is posting 2 hours because they are doubting their ability to effectively convey changes to times, or doubting YYC's ability to convey said change?

To my knowledge, thus far nothing has gone wrong as a direct result of the airlines who are using 45 minutes.

In my numerous discussions with AC employees and management, call to gate and water fountains haven't hit the radar. The Discussion is being entirely driven by delays and inefficiency at international security plus concourse C preboard security. The notice posted by thenoflyzone being the prime example.

I was made aware last week about the particulars Of the above mentioned concourse C notice. The big issue is with Gardaworld workforce planning. They are having a terrible time staffing up and getting passengers through the security checkpoints within acceptable times. The Garda world response has been to shutter international nexus lanes and restrict passengers to their intended preboard security screening lane.

The Garda world problems are even affecting the domestic security screening checkpoints. Concourse C on Sunday had as long a line as before new terminal although there were 300 less passenger being processed through the same 5 lanes (all lanes were open and fully staffed). Concourse A had one closed lane but lineups were worse even without WS to LGW and KL to AMS.

[yyc_engineer]

Does anybody actually know why AC did not build MLL's in the new terminal? I mean, the cost/ lounge would have been maybe $1M (+ operating costs to maintain them) but they have lounges in the Domestic, Transborder and International departure areas of YYZ, YUL and YVR - why not put them into YYC, especially when the new terminal was being designed/built? The USA departures lounge could have easily been co-branded a MLL / United Club with United pitching in as a partner (United is the biggest US based carrier operating at YYC by far).

I can't image the flak they are getting from their Calgary and Western Canada based premium passengers will win them any love.

Anecdotally, I am hearing that people are pissed. And for a company that has had record profits in the recent years, http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/air-canada-annual-profit-soars-to-531m-record-high-1.2953088, I simply do not understand why Air Canada would not invest in such a basic amenity.

[Blader]

^^^
I would think frequency and numbers handled per day matter, no?

[yyc_engineer]

Originally Posted by Blader

^^^
I would think frequency and numbers handled per day matter, no?

Maybe..if you want to look at whether there is enough traffic to warrant the investment, ie. bang for your buck.

But I was thinking about it more from an overall branding/ airline wide amenity perspective - when they have legit International flights out of YYC (LHR, FRA & NRT) the MLL is a service that premium customers would expect. Air Canada doesn't "make money" from any of its lounges but they are part of the overall branding / service strategy. If EWR, LGA and LAX have lounges I would think that at least YYC International would be lounge-worthy (to quote Elaine). Transborder, with everything basically going rouge now-a-days, maybe I could justify not having one.

[hoboman27]

Originally Posted by yyc_engineer

Maybe..if you want to look at whether there is enough traffic to warrant the investment, ie. bang for your buck.

But I was thinking about it more from an overall branding/ airline wide amenity perspective - when they have legit International flights out of YYC (LHR, FRA & NRT) the MLL is a service that premium customers would expect. Air Canada doesn't "make money" from any of its lounges but they are part of the overall branding / service strategy. If EWR, LGA and LAX have lounges I would think that at least YYC International would be lounge-worthy (to quote Elaine). Transborder, with everything basically going rouge now-a-days, maybe I could justify not having one.

maybe AC's going to dehub Calgary in the next couple of years, why spend the money?

[Cage]

Originally Posted by yyc_engineer

Does anybody actually know why AC did not build MLL's in the new terminal? I mean, the cost/ lounge would have been maybe $1M (+ operating costs to maintain them) but they have lounges in the Domestic, Transborder and International departure areas of YYZ, YUL and YVR - why not put them into YYC, especially when the new terminal was being designed/built? The USA departures lounge could have easily been co-branded a MLL / United Club with United pitching in as a partner (United is the biggest US based carrier operating at YYC by far).

Way back two years ago (October 2014) I had a conversation with Craig Landry, currently President Leisure Group (AC Rouge, AC Vacations, and online portal for hotel/car packages) and then VP Marketing. Landry explained the problem with the YYC lounges was that the capital budget included new MLLs in FRA and LHR T2 New, LGA renovation, YYZ domestic refresh, YYZ International renovation (to accommodate evening meal service), YUL International renovations, and YVR domestic refresh. On top of all this something had to be done with LAX because NZ was moving out of T2 and over to TBIT. At the time, the YYC new terminal was in the 2015 capital budget and not the 2016 capital budget.

Additionally, UA has a unique problem with their entry rules for their United Clubs. Domestically, only United Club members can gain access to the UC as well as those on International bound United Business and GlobalFirst Class airfares. Domestic business class is excluded from entry, even if the passenger has Premier Gold or Platinum status. Star Alliance Gold passengers get in for free.

YYC ops for UA is considered a narrowbody destination. The only other narrowbody destination with a UC is MEX. Some may say that SDQ is also a destination, however this lounge is operated by COPA and is not a true UC.
International UC's are located in LHR, HKG, and NRT and these are paired with Global First (soon to be Polaris) lounges. In YYC instance, our airport does not fit the UA operating model for international lounges.

Finally AC and UA are prohibited from cobranding operations on the transborder. There is an antitrust immunity agreement between AC, UA, and the competition authorities in USA and Canada. This agreement has never been enacted by AC and UA because the hub to hub routes are carved out. UA only flies to hub cities from YYC and therefore would not be able to cobrand with AC even if the antitrust immunity agreement was enacted.

Originally Posted by yyc_engineer

Air Canada doesn't "make money" from any of its lounges but they are part of the overall branding / service strategy. If EWR, LGA and LAX have lounges I would think that at least YYC International would be lounge-worthy (to quote Elaine).

Transborder, with everything basically going rouge now-a-days, maybe I could justify not having one.

AC makes a ton of money on their MLLs because they collect $20-%50 dollars from each Star Gold passenger that passes through plus a higher amount if the passenger is flying another Star airline with a Business Class ticket or higher. It is the reason AC wants my UA Premier Gold card everytime I enter the MLL. AC doesn't give a damn if I purchase a refundable fare, enter the MLL, then cancel the ticket once inside the MLL because they get revenue from the transaction. If I do the same purchase and cancel exercise with an Altitude Elite 50k card they would ban me from the program (I know flyers who have been banned).

[Mazrim]

Originally Posted by Cage

Call to gate at 45 minutes.

Start pre-boarding at 35 minutes.

General boarding at 30 minutes.

Substantially complete boarding at 15-20 minutes.

Doors close at 10 minutes.

On time departure at 0 minutes.

Passenger standing around time for a call to gate system should be less than 15 minutes plus 5 minutes for walking to the gate.

Its an airline problem if they post a delay immediately prior to flight time. where pax are standing around.

It was 75 minutes before the flight.

My experience with security and US Preclearance was super fast and smooth. The automated tray return was awesome, and the questions asked at customs were very quick and easy.

There was signs before the long walk to the gates explaining the lack of seating, so anyone who didn't know should pay more attention.

[MMMBeer]

Originally Posted by Cage

I was made aware last week about the particulars Of the above mentioned concourse C notice. The big issue is with Gardaworld workforce planning. They are having a terrible time staffing up and getting passengers through the security checkpoints within acceptable times. The Garda world response has been to shutter international nexus lanes and restrict passengers to their intended preboard security screening lane.

Just went thru new terminal at to Concourse E last week. Great new terminal.

Nexus and priority funneled into same as general line, only one CATSA Plus setup working. So stupid.

Plus no Nexus benefits (shoes off, belt on, small items remain in pockets) - getting yelled at for keeping shoes on did not enhance my (low) regard for CATSA.

However kudos to the auto bin delivery and four people at a time loading - that part worked pretty well.

[YYCguys]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Do they call the whole flight over, or do they announce by zones?

I flew United from YYC today and I could only hear the boarding announcements for it as I approached the gate. Wonder why they wouldn't have used a concourse wide intercom.

[lespoir]

Originally Posted by Cage

AC makes a ton of money on their MLLs because they collect $20-%50 dollars from each Star Gold passenger that passes through plus a higher amount if the passenger is flying another Star airline with a Business Class ticket or higher. It is the reason AC wants my UA Premier Gold card everytime I enter the MLL. AC doesn't give a damn if I purchase a refundable fare, enter the MLL, then cancel the ticket once inside the MLL because they get revenue from the transaction. If I do the same purchase and cancel exercise with an Altitude Elite 50k card they would ban me from the program (I know flyers who have been banned).

Two years ago in FlyerTalk forum, Ben Smith answered my question about the possibility of a new MLL at the new international terminal:"why? Only three daily flights..."

Given the fact that AC has been launching all sorts of new international routes from YYZ, YUL, and YVR, and nothing from YYC, I guess the answer from AC management is clear:YYC is de-hubbed, and has been downgraded to just like other Canadian cities.

The stretched oil industry downturn is not helping either. Perhaps YYC as an airport itself feels it has the scale, but it does not screen in the eyes of AC management in the context of its business growth strategies.

[Johnny Aussie]

Three weekly starting 19 January through 30 April.

Flights operate Thursdays, Fridays and Sundays.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Three weekly starting 19 January through 30 April.

Flights operate Thursdays, Fridays and Sundays.

The January Calgary-Pheonix flights are $198 return taxes in (which is impressive), however starting February it goes to something like $340.

Warning - Their fees are material, and you really have to be careful. The fees even for carry-on are steep, and while a small under the seat item is acceptable for free, the size limits are such that it can't even be an average laptop bag. The checked baggage fees are greater than other airlines, and they even charge if you go to the airport without having printed your boarding pass. If you call them to book or what have you, they charge for that also. All things considered, I'm not a fan at this point, but could be convinced otherwise.

Let's use a real example:

You're going to Pheonix in February, you get seats early before the flight fills up, and you're going to have a 20" carry-on plus one checked back (and you remember to pre-pay for the checked luggage in advance, but forget about the carry on), will book via a phone call, will starve during the flight to save money, and forget to bring a boarding pass before going to the airport (both directions).

Tax in:
Flights: $335

Pre-tax:
Call centre fee, because you called to book: $15.75
Carry-on: $42 (at counter) * 2 segments = $84
Checked luggage: $26.25 (website) * 2 segments = $52.50
Boarding pass printing fee, because you forgot to print at home: $10.50 * 2 segments = $21

Total, counting 5% tax on the latter items = $517

Oh, and I suppose you could have checked your carry on at the airport instead of paying $42 for your 20" carry-on. That would be $47.25 at the airport (times two segments).

To put that in perspective, with WestJet (and presumably AC also, as they generally match up prices) you can do the trip for $330 round trip, not have to pay most of the above, get a drink and a cookie, not have a carry-on fee, and pay less for checked luggage (particularly if you have more than one, as it increases with New Leaf). So WestJet could be below $400 for the same or better.

[Fuzz]

So what you are saying is, if you are a total moron it probably isn't for you. Thanks for the math.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

So what you are saying is, if you are a total moron it probably isn't for you. Thanks for the math.

Even if you just incorporate the carry on fee that other airlines do not have, and you pay the lower amount in advance with a web-booking, you're paying extra. If you have a brain, it isn't for you, but it may work if you don't know math.

Only the February introductory fare works out less.

[casper]

Originally Posted by Cage

In my numerous discussions with AC employees and management, call to gate and water fountains haven't hit the radar. The Discussion is being entirely driven by delays and inefficiency at international security plus concourse C preboard security. The notice posted by thenoflyzone being the prime example.

I was made aware last week about the particulars Of the above mentioned concourse C notice. The big issue is with Gardaworld workforce planning. They are having a terrible time staffing up and getting passengers through the security checkpoints within acceptable times. The Garda world response has been to shutter international nexus lanes and restrict passengers to their intended preboard security screening lane.

The Garda world problems are even affecting the domestic security screening checkpoints. Concourse C on Sunday had as long a line as before new terminal although there were 300 less passenger being processed through the same 5 lanes (all lanes were open and fully staffed). Concourse A had one closed lane but lineups were worse even without WS to LGW and KL to AMS.

For AC management I am surprised complaints from frequent flyer about the lack of MLL are not on the top of the list.

I was through YYJ, YVR and YLW. All had water fountains easily accessible many as combos with fill station. YYJ even had a water bottle only fill station between the CASTA person at the entrance to screening and the x-ray machines. However I think is more to provide a sink to dump water before hitting the x-ray machine. However if one was thirsty it could be used to fill.

Next week I am passing through YYC (but on WestJet). Hopefully the A gates are running smoothly.

I don't fully understand the Garda strategy. NEXUS lanes should permit them to screen more people, more quickly using fewer resources. Closing that lane and forcing the NEXUS people to go through the regular process should slow things down for everyone and require more resources. Perhaps I am missing something?

[Cage]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Three weekly starting 19 January through 30 April.

Flights operate Thursdays, Fridays and Sundays.

This is going to get interesting real fast.

A condition of pre-clearance facilities is that the flight must land at a US airport with an open USCBP office.

I checked USCBP office hours for Mesa-Gateway and discovered its a one person field office with primary center being Tucson. Aircraft are advised to call ahead to ensure the office will be open and to plan for a diversion to TUS if the officer is out of the office. Finally, the office is only open M-F 8-4:30. Those Sunday flights are going to see a lot of diversions to TUS.

[Bigtime]

Surely they've planned this out with the US Customs folks?