Chinese Investors Driving Up Metro Housing Prices

[retro_orange]

Originally Posted by Vin

Yeah I wish educated, well-informed and worldly people like him would actually be the decision makers for this City, not just a bunch of hicks who fail even when they try to ape others.

Trouble is most well educated and informed individuals have solid morals and ethical conduct, modern politics doesn't have any need for these things if you are driven by a corporate agenda.

[Infrequent Poster]

Originally Posted by whatnext

BREAKING: BC gov't says on July 29th, before 15% foreign buyers tax was implemented, foreign nationals bought $850 million worth of property
http://www.news1130.com/2016/09/22/f...-targeted-tax/

Now that's breathtaking (in a bad way).

But foreign ownership isn't a problem, go back through this thread and listen to all the apologists who told you so.

Is there any info on how much of that 850 million is sfh and how much is on condos or new developments?

[whatnext]

Another day another scammer. At least there's four homes that will be going back onto the market after civil forfeiture

...Paul Oei has been featured in The New Yorker as a “fixer” and “unofficial ambassador” for ultra-wealthy Chinese clients looking for advice on how to immigrate to B.C. and invest their riches. Oei and his wife own six luxury vehicles and four homes, B.C. lending and title documents show.

In civil court cases that are separate from, but related to, the Securities Commission accusations, investors allege Oei and his wife, Loretta Lai, led them to believe investments in Fraser Valley recycling plant company Cascade were supported by the B.C. government and would let the investors apply for resident status in Canada.

Instead, the Commission alleged, Oei diverted $6.9 million of the $13.3 million raised for Cascade into his personal bank accounts, using that to fund his immigration-investment business, Canadian Manu, and to make charity donations, rent luxury cars and pay credit card bills...
http://vancouversun.com/news/nationa...h-with-trudeau

[whatnext]

Lost in all the brouhaha over changes to mortgage lending rules was the news that the Federal Government is going to try and close a (ridiculous) loophole that exempted lawyers from reporting suspicious transactions to FINTRAC. Given that this will be an attempt to work a Supreme Court ruling, you can bet the gov't has evidence money laundering is a big enough issue to warrant the fight.

The federal government will try to close a loophole in Canada’s anti-money laundering system that excludes lawyers from having to report suspicious transactions, Postmedia has learned.

In 2015, the Supreme Court of Canada ruled that, unlike other professionals such as bankers and real estate agents, lawyers do not have to report to Canada’s anti-money laundering agency, Fintrac. Lawyers in B.C. won that case based on a constitutional argument about solicitor-client privilege, and the argument that law societies already regulate lawyers to prevent involvement in money laundering.

But Canada faces increasing international scrutiny as concerns over money laundering in Vancouver real estate grow. In September, the Financial Action Task Force, a Paris-based intergovernmental group that makes recommendations for fighting money laundering, asked Canada to close the lawyer loophole. An agency report suggested there is a close relationship between money laundering in real estate and the services provided by lawyers...

http://vancouversun.com/news/national/aml-changes

[whatnext]

Looks like Christy & Co still have some loopholes to close:

...It’s the kind of pitch any practised real estate agent might make. And his Shanghai-based company, Vanfun, has a lot of practice. Over the past few years, it has become the top “Chinese real estate network platform in the overseas market,” according to its website.

Many of the homes it sells are in British Columbia, where Vanfun occupies a regulatory gap in the real estate market. Unlike other places popular with overseas buyers – including Ontario, New York and California – B.C. allows foreign firms to sell B.C. homes without provincial licensing, an issue that remains unaddressed despite recent attempts to throttle the influx of foreign money.

Specializing in Vancouver real estate, Vanfun tells clients it offers the array of services any agent in that city might, down to a website constantly updated with new home listings, each tagged with their MLS number.

There’s one key difference. Vanfun isn’t licensed to deal in British Columbia real estate. Neither is the voice on the phone, a man named Ronald Lok who boasts on social media that he is a Canadian permanent resident who has sold at least one multimillion-dollar home in Vancouver. Mr. Lok is not licensed in China, either, according to an online database maintained by the China Institute of Real Estate Appraisers and Agents....

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ticle32316302/

[whatnext]

Seriously, WTF. Why is this even considered acceptable:

A Chinese real estate billionaire looking to invest in Canada says his customers are troubled by British Columbia's tax on foreigners purchasing homes in Vancouver.

Frank Wu, the chairman of Central China Real Estate Ltd., says Chinese investors have told him that the 15 per cent tax implemented in August is discouraging them from buying property in the city....

...Wu says the tax won't deter him from plans to invest more than $100 million over the next two to three years to build mainly residential properties in Canada for Chinese buyers.(bold mine)

http://www.bnn.ca/chinese-real-estat...s-tax-1.586823

[trofirhen]

My blood boils at all this. Sure we have always had large immigrant communities, and that's largely what makes Vancouver as diverse and interesting as it is.
Selling your own mother is something entirely different.

[whatnext]

Hong Kong has raised it stamp duty (housing tax) again to cool a market still overheated in a large part because of Mainland Chinese money. This tightening applies to all buyers of second homes.

http://www.scmp.com/property/hong-ko...y-15-cent-cool

[trofirhen]

Why can't we do what the Australians do ... if Chinese buyers want to buy or build mega-houses, by law they have to live in 'em. Sometimes the answers are right under our noses.

[Jebby]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Why can't we do what the Australians do ... if Chinese buyers want to buy or build mega-houses, by law they have to live in 'em. Sometimes the answers are right under our noses.

That's a horrible proposal.

[retro_orange]

That darn nanny must have let you out of the basement again.

[BobLoblawsLawBlog]

Originally Posted by Jebby

That's a horrible proposal.

Why?

[Jebby]

Originally Posted by BobLoblawsLawBlog

Why?

Well apart from the moral argument against restricting property rights, I think there are much better free market approaches to dealing with the issue of affordability.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Jebby

That's a horrible proposal.

What a strange thing to say. When I google "home" the first definition that pops up is "the place where one lives permanently, especially as a member of a family or household."

What could be more natural than insisting people live in the home they purchase? If Vancouver is so short of land as you claim, and their is such a demand for homes why on earth would we allow people to buy them and leave them empty or only live in them part-time?

[Jebby]

Originally Posted by whatnext

What a strange thing to say. When I google "home" the first definition that pops up is "the place where one lives permanently, especially as a member of a family or household."

What could be more natural than insisting people live in the home they purchase? If Vancouver is so short of land as you claim, and their is such a demand for homes why on earth would we allow people to buy them and leave them empty or only live in them part-time?

Where did I claim Vancouver is so short of land?

[twoNeurons]

And it did NOTHING to prices in Australia. Why? Because the housing market escalated on FEARS of a Chinese takeover, not reality of one.

The reality is that houses are expensive because WE keep paying more for them, borrowing MORE money, getting MORE money from mum n' dad, etc.

Interesting factoid... 2 months before the investor tax came into being, houses were already cooling. Investor tax spooks the locals... thinking that it'll stop the supposed Chinese invasion. Locals ( the ones that actually DRIVE the market ) stop and pause... as they smell blood.

I don't know if we'll see a fast decrease, but it's pretty clear that the federal and provincial government are intent on dousing the inferno that the housing market has become.

Too soon to know whether it's a dead cat bounce, but home owners are keeping prices up hoping the market sentiment changes. We'll see if buyers or sellers blink first.


In short, every time you hear someone say "Chinese investors are driving prices" ask yourself who is telling you this and ask them why anecdotal evidence is somehow evidence in exchange of real hard data (which for some reason, is kept under lock and key... hmmm )

On a side note, have you guys ever read onerous terms you have to submit to when opening realtor.ca? I was going to write a program to track house prices in my area just to track real life prices, but they have it in their terms that forbid such usage. What are they trying to hide?

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

And it did NOTHING to prices in Australia. Why? Because the housing market escalated on FEARS of a Chinese takeover, not reality of one.

The reality is that houses are expensive because WE keep paying more for them, borrowing MORE money, getting MORE money from mum n' dad, etc.

Interesting factoid... 2 months before the investor tax came into being, houses were already cooling. Investor tax spooks the locals... thinking that it'll stop the supposed Chinese invasion. Locals ( the ones that actually DRIVE the market ) stop and pause... as they smell blood.

I don't know if we'll see a fast decrease, but it's pretty clear that the federal and provincial government are intent on dousing the inferno that the housing market has become.

Too soon to know whether it's a dead cat bounce, but home owners are keeping prices up hoping the market sentiment changes. We'll see if buyers or sellers blink first.


In short, every time you hear someone say "Chinese investors are driving prices" ask yourself who is telling you this and ask them why anecdotal evidence is somehow evidence in exchange of real hard data (which for some reason, is kept under lock and key... hmmm )

On a side note, have you guys ever read onerous terms you have to submit to when opening realtor.ca? I was going to write a program to track house prices in my area just to track real life prices, but they have it in their terms that forbid such usage. What are they trying to hide?

No matter how low interest rates are, and unless your mum and dad are extremely rich, there's no way you can borrow over $2 million for a bungalow on the West Side that cost just $500k 10 years ago (before the Chinese capital influx).

The lock realtors having on housing info is ridiculous and its amazing it hasn't been overturned in court. In the internet age it is an anachronism to require "agents" to do any kind of transaction.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Jebby

Where did I claim Vancouver is so short of land?

I don't think you did, reading through the posts. But, in fact (and it's well known) Vancouver IS short of land, hemmed in by the mountains, ocean, US border, and Valley farmland.
That old cliché said, it DOES put a real strain on available, buildable land, almost like a pressure cooker. This isn't Calgary (which sprawls à la Los Angeles), or Dallas, or such.
We're hemmed in, and what's more the really desirable parts of town tend (though not all) to be on the West Side, either Pt Grey or the N.Shore. All this factors hugely into the prices.
And as the city grows, it can only get worse. Prepare yourselves, or call upon the Feds for some draconian legislation to curb this; what that might be, I do not know.
If it is not checked, the city will repel (it's already happening) companies from locating here, the city will be stultified by this, morph into something unrecognizable, and die on the vine.

[Jebby]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

I don't think you did, reading through the posts. But, in fact (and it's well known) Vancouver IS short of land, hemmed in by the mountains, ocean, US border, and Valley farmland.

Except it's not when you consider that 70% of the CoV is zoned for not much more than single family detached homes.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CF55lMWVIAERxg9.png

Then we take a look at Burnaby, where we also have the majority still zoned for single family detached homes. Richmond has been densifying a lot over the past decade, but it's still majority single family homes. Then look at Surrey, where the majority is ultra-low density over a massive area.

We are not running out of land. There is enough land to sustain population growth for the next 200+ years.

What Metro Vancouver lacks is density and pro-growth policies to deal with the large amount of demand that far outstrips supply. The solution isn't regressive authoritarian laws against ownership or additional taxes. Allow market forces to act and correct the imbalance between supply and demand. Relax density restrictions, streamline permitting and compliance costs, and allow the market to react to demand.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Jebby

Except it's not when you consider that 70% of the CoV is zoned for not much more than single family detached homes.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CF55lMWVIAERxg9.png

Then we take a look at Burnaby, where we also have the majority still zoned for single family detached homes. Richmond has been densifying a lot over the past decade, but it's still majority single family homes. Then look at Surrey, where the majority is ultra-low density over a massive area.

We are not running out of land. There is enough land to sustain population growth for the next 200+ years.

What Metro Vancouver lacks is density and pro-growth policies to deal with the large amount of demand that far outstrips supply. The solution isn't regressive authoritarian laws against ownership or additional taxes. Allow market forces to act and correct the imbalance between supply and demand. Relax density restrictions, streamline permitting and compliance costs, and allow the market to react to demand.

Time and time again, study after study has shown what the "market" wants is single family houses. Not condos. So given that, the selling of even one house to foreign buyers is ridiculous. If we were short on water would you sell it all to offshore buyers?