Calgary International Airport II

[The Chemist]

All this discussion of lack of water at the new terminal reminds me of something I noted on my just-completed trip to North America (Calgary and Boston) - China does water availability at major transport hubs (train stations and airports) much better than anywhere else I've been. There are many hot water dispensers past security in both airports and train stations here, so it's very easy to fill up before boarding a train / flight. which is very convenient.

[McMurph]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

And that's the main problem.

Also, considering no other Canadian airport has CTG, i don't see how YYC couldn't have foreseen this problem and taken proper measures to solve it.

Overall, a poor performance on their part.

I really don't know what all the fuss is about. Go to the airport. Get a coffee. Kill some time. Fly away. It's not that difficult. People travel every day through airports and countries they've never seen before and usually everything ends up OK.

This isn't "poor performance" on YYC's part, it's the overkill of social media and news organizations that are always scrambling for something to say. Once the "news" dies down people will adapt and travel, and enjoy the views and shiny new space until it's neither shiny nor new. I trust the designers of the space and the intelligence and adaptability of the average human traveler far more than I trust the random tweets of the first few noisemakers to traverse the space.

[Tobuz]

Originally Posted by McMurph

This isn't "poor performance" on YYC's part, it's the overkill of social media and news organizations that are always scrambling for something to say. Once the "news" dies down people will adapt and travel, and enjoy the views and shiny new space until it's neither shiny nor new. I trust the designers of the space and the intelligence and adaptability of the average human traveler far more than I trust the random tweets of the first few noisemakers to traverse the space.

When a brand new, $2B airport terminal is opened in 2016, there is absolutely no excuse for people to be sitting on floors (en masse, evidently), or to be upset that they don't perceive they have anywhere to wait, or to be unable to find anywhere that get a drink of water.

Absolutely no excuse.

To say the design - both building design and process design - is perfectly fine, but that the above problems are solely the fault of 'social media' or that YYC's customers are either too stupid or too whiny is ridiculous.

No design project ever nails it 100% at first. Revisions and corrections are always needed after launch in any project like this. But the two most apparent "misses" in the ITB (ie CTG implementation and forgetting water) are very significant and very surprising.

Is it a catastrophe? Of course not. Will people still enjoy the building? For sure. None of what's been discussed on this forum about these issues takes away from the terminal being a wonderful building and a massive improvement on what we had before. It's a success on both counts, and it's an asset to the city and a hugely important part of our infrastructure.

But after 10 years and $2B, we have people thinking they have no option but to sit on the floor at a gate? Come on. It's a problem, and it needs to be fixed.

As for the notion that people will adapt to the building's design over time ... first, that's backwards -- the total opposite of true design thinking. Second, it's an international airport serving travellers (many infrequent) from around the planet. It's not a C-Train station that the same users go through ten times a week where frequency of use builds routines. YYC and the designers need to bend over backwards to make the space intuitive and enjoyable for their customers, not expect their customers to bend over backwards to find workarounds for what they built.

[holhm22]

Originally Posted by The Chemist

All this discussion of lack of water at the new terminal reminds me of something I noted on my just-completed trip to North America (Calgary and Boston) - China does water availability at major transport hubs (train stations and airports) much better than anywhere else I've been. There are many hot water dispensers past security in both airports and train stations here, so it's very easy to fill up before boarding a train / flight. which is very convenient.

Makes sense, Chinese people sure like their hot water. My relatives included

[Johnny Aussie]

http://www.financialpost.com/m/wp/news/t...nada-grants-foreign-ownership-exemptions

So it looks like the 25% cap on foreign investment in Canadian air carriers has been (will be) lifted to 49%.

Calgary based Enerjet and Vancouver based Canada Jetlines continue to pursue launching ULCCs.

As always, see what happens I guess!

[Bigtime]

I am very curious to watch how that new foreign ownership percentage works out, just because it's been raised to 49% are there investors out of country that think their money is best served in a ULCC venture here?

[wave46]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

I am very curious to watch how that new foreign ownership percentage works out, just because it's been raised to 49% are there investors out of country that think their money is best served in a ULCC venture here?

Airlines are black holes in which investors toss their money, mostly.

There are very few industries that have so many weak points on which they may fail.

Capital intensive: check
Highly sensitive to commodity prices (oil): check
Highly sensitive to incidents/accidents: check
Highly sensitive to recessions/decreases in customer discretionary spending: check
High number of regulations to satisfy various government agencies: check
Easy for customers to comparison shop prices with competition: check
Presence of incumbent airlines that will eat a loss on a route to put you out of business: check

Westjet, Porter Airlines and Sunwing are the only major airlines that have succeeded in Canada in the recent past. Each has a unique reason that they succeeded - a differential advantage that powered them.

Westjet: Mostly, Air Canada was an incompetent mess of a company that neglected western Canada as it tried to digest its merger with Canadian Airlines. Thus, Westjet used the Southwest approach and succeeded very well.

Porter Airlines: Want to fly in eastern Canada or the northeastern US? Hate transiting through Pearson? Want beer on a domestic flight that's included in the cost of the ticket? Here you go!

Sunwing: Instead of dealing with an external airline for vacation travel, why not do the vertically integrated thing, especially if you're large enough.

So, unless these new airlines do something unique like the above mentioned, they will likely be consigned to the trash bin of airline history, like Jetsgo, Canada 3000 and the like.

As a personal note, I am leery of ULCC airlines - the stories of Spirit and Allegiant airlines make me wonder about the safety of them, along with the hassles they impose. Better to spend a few bucks more - the old adage of "you get what you pay for" is very applicable.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

I am very curious to watch how that new foreign ownership percentage works out, just because it's been raised to 49% are there investors out of country that think their money is best served in a ULCC venture here?

So far early indications are not good for Calgary job market. Enerjet took the opportunity on changes to foreign ownership to significantly reduce their head office personnel. The CFO has been looking for an exit strategy and the Controller lasted a few weeks before the job cuts were released. Luckily I dodged a bullet on the job search as new Enerjetters are looking for jobs again.

Indigo Partners (US based private equity firm) is looking to invest into Enerjet. Their cash will likely include significant representation on both the Board (usual requirement) and also Management (a new requirement of private equity companies). Indigo will deliver the cheque along with the President's new executive staff that have significant ULCC experience. At the end of the day Enerjet will be Canadian in name and flag only. The Canadians will hold supervisor and employee ranks with executive management for the publicly high profile positions.

[Tobuz]

Photo of the D gate area this morning with departures for WestJet and Transat sun destinations.

Note the people all waiting . . . at the gates. Including many standing, leaning, and sitting on the floor.



The person's captions for the photo:

"Where are the seats??? This is just one flight waiting. Mother's and kids sitting on the floor. GENIUS"

[CalgaryCheese]

How do connections work in the new terminal? Do domestic-International and domestic-USA passengers need to recelât security? And how do International-anywhere connections work?

[Cage]

Originally Posted by CalgaryCheese

How do connections work in the new terminal? Do domestic-International and domestic-USA passengers need to recelât security? And how do International-anywhere connections work?

Short answer, it depends on the passengers itinerary.

Long answer:

Most passengers arriving from Europe or USA can clear through one stop security provided they have the correct airline, origin, and destination combination.

Passengers from USA or Europe go to the ITB connection Center and proceeds to either the nexus or APC kiosk. Next step is to be evaluated by CBSA officer at either desk 3 or 4. If the passenger meets OSS requirements and is not cleared for secondary inspection, the CBSA officer will open a door that leads to an escalator for the YYC link D/E station. The passenger will then enter either domestic airside area or the international airside area.

If the passenger does not have OSS or arrives from an Asian destination, they will go through normal connections process and retrieve their luggage. Once through CBSA formalities, the passenger will walk along the publicly accessible connections corridor and up an escalator to a special two lane security station for domestic and internationals connections passengers who require CATSA security clearance. Once they have exited security, the passenger is at the D/E link station.

For USA to USA connections, there is an elevator that will take passengers to USCBP (these pax will still have to present a passport to USCBP). This same elevator can be used for international to USA connections that do not require to be seen by CBSA. The connections Center is sorting hat for these types of workflow.

Domestic to international connections proceed along the YYC Link to a customer care desk locate after the D/E link terminus station. The customer care desk will approve entry into the international concourse D.

For domestic to USA connections, the pax goes to the customer care desk mentioned above. Once into the international concourse, the passenger can go through duty free shop to get to USCBP.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by Tobuz

Photo of the D gate area this morning with departures for WestJet and Transat sun destinations.

Note the people all waiting . . . at the gates. Including many standing, leaning, and sitting on the floor.



The person's captions for the photo:

"Where are the seats??? This is just one flight waiting. Mother's and kids sitting on the floor. GENIUS"

The amusing thing about all these captions is that they make it sound like an obvious omission from YYC, but they're ignorant to the idea of call to gate (or just don't care) is to not wait at the gate well before boarding.

I'm pretty sure YYC knows there's a vary spare amount of seats around the gate. I think they did it on purpose.

[Tobuz]

Originally Posted by Joborule

The amusing thing about all these captions is that they make it sound like an obvious omission from YYC, but they're ignorant to the idea of call to gate ...

... which is YYC's problem to solve, not the customer's.

One can't say it's a wonderfully designed building with a wonderfully designed passenger process, but our passengers are just too ignorant to understand what do do.

[jmt18325]

Except that they apparently are.

[casper]

Originally Posted by jmt18325

Except that they apparently are.

Interesting approach to creating a customer service culture.

It was a fail the moment they had to give it a name (CtG), create a web page to describe how it works and go on social media to explain how it works.

The process of going from security should be ubiquitous and sub-concourse for the majority of passengers. It is not and that is the reason people are sitting on the floor waiting for their flight.

If Canadians culture truly conformed to authority, all the people sitting on the floor would be sitting on the floor in the correct line based on boarding group.

[PPAR]

The missing piece in CTG is herd behaviour. Calgary has not yet developed an understanding of CTG in any airport users, thus everyone behaves as they always have. In Europe, while there are many people unfamiliar with the system traveling through CTG airports, when they arrive at the gate they realize that few others are around. They then naturally migrate where the crowds are in the common areas.
We need to give this system time to develop. Education is hardly a failure of the system, as it will just help speed the process.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by Tobuz

Photo of the D gate area this morning with departures for WestJet and Transat sun destinations.

Note the people all waiting . . . at the gates. Including many standing, leaning, and sitting on the floor.



The person's captions for the photo:

"Where are the seats??? This is just one flight waiting. Mother's and kids sitting on the floor. GENIUS"

Let's avgeek out about the photo for a while.

The far right hand corner of the photo includes a clock with a time of 9:26am.

At 9:26am the following flights are about to depart the D concourse:
- WS to Ixtapa off D78 scheduled at 9:45am actual departure 10:53.
- WS to Cancun off D80 (around the corner so not relevant) schedule at 9:35 actual departure 9:31.
- WS to Los Cabos off D82 (again other side of the terminal) schedule at 9:55 actual departure at 10:04.
- TS to Punta Cana off D76 scheduled at 10am actual departure at 10:35am. This flight originated in YVR and left there half hour late, arriving in YYC half hour late. Equipment was 332.

Originally Posted by Tobuz

... which is YYC's problem to solve, not the customer's.

So who is to blame for Thousands Standing Around? TSA was created by George W Bush, but that's another story for another time.

I postulate that Westjet and Transat are to blame for their passengers standing around the gate.

In Transat's case they knew on departure from YVR the aircraft was going to be 1/2 hour late. The airline should have updated its departure time to reflect the late arrival. This would have adjusted the call to gate notification accordingly. However this was not the case, Transat had posted for an ontime departure from YYC.

In WestJet's case, they to should have pushed back the call to gate notification, particularly if the delay was known ahead of time.

One of the hardest things about Canadian air travel is that all Canadian airlines are horrible at updating departure times when there is a delay. European and American airlines are much better, pushed along by their respective regulatory regimes and Passenger's Bill of Rights legislation.

One of the learnings for airlines departing out of the YYC international is that they will have to get a better handle on posting departure delays. This is not that fault of airport authority or the terminal designers, but rather the airlines.

At larger airports such as LHR, FRA, and HKG; they employ call to gate system by not announcing the gate until just before boarding. The gate decision is made and finalized when the aircraft is pulled onto the gate. At these major airports:
- aircraft arrive and unloads,
- the aircraft is then pushed to remote stands for servicing and maintenance check.
- the aircraft is then pulled onto a gate about 1.25 hours before departure, sometime even less than one hour before departure.
- the aircraft immediately starts boarding once pulled onto the gate.

The lack of finalization regarding which gate the aircraft will depart from makes CtG work and is a necessity for LHR, FRA, and HKG.

[casper]

Originally Posted by PPAR

The missing piece in CTG is herd behaviour. Calgary has not yet developed an understanding of CTG in any airport users, thus everyone behaves as they always have. In Europe, while there are many people unfamiliar with the system traveling through CTG airports, when they arrive at the gate they realize that few others are around. They then naturally migrate where the crowds are in the common areas.
We need to give this system time to develop. Education is hardly a failure of the system, as it will just help speed the process.

Given the largest international destination from Calgary is London where CTG is used I think a good percentage of people have used it before. The number of people for board flights from Calgary to London is about the same as the number that go in the opposite direction.

[Riise]

Originally Posted by casper

It was a fail the moment they had to give it a name (CtG), create a web page to describe how it works and go on social media to explain how it works.

While the implementation has been lacking, it is a fundamental change and it is asking a lot of an organization to have them instigate a fundamental change with nearly no training material.

[AgentGibb]

Originally Posted by Cage

The lack of finalization regarding which gate the aircraft will depart from makes CtG work and is a necessity for LHR, FRA, and HKG.

This is apparently not always true. I just came back from LHR yesterday and my gate was printed on my boarding pass when I checked in more than 2h before departure. The fellow at the desk even made a point of telling me what my gate was as I dropped off my checked bag. When I got into the main holdroom, the boards all said "gate posted in x minutes" for my flight, but I had already been 'leaked' that information by Air Canada through the standard check-in process. I realize this is anecdotal, and it probably usually works exactly as you describe, but apparently gate assignment leaks *do* happen at airports like LHR without causing mass panic and chaos.

I noticed that they still had quite a bit of seating at the actual gate (and a few shops nearby) and also had an extensive network of barriers up to contain and snake the line so that when everyone rushed the gate as usual the were at least not blocking the rest of the concourse.

Arrival at the new YYC terminal went very smoothly (apparently in contrast to the 'problems' people are having figuring out how to depart from it). The new automated passport check was excellent as they have tons of terminals so there was virtually no waiting. I actually beat my bag to the carousel, which was a rare feat with the customs lines of yore.

Another random observation was that both of my Air Canada flights were quite empty (outbound was last friday, return was this friday). I had a bank of three seats to myself in economy both ways. I'd say economy was only about 30% occupied on both flights. Is this typical for this time of year, or are the WestJet flights maybe impacting Air Canada's loads?