Stadiums and Arenas of Canada part 2

[jmt18325]

Sure but isn't it going to cost $500M just to demolish the stadium?

[elly63]

Re Thurmas: Yes but why would you spend money on a new facility for two teams that don't want to be together and that are already in right sized stadiums (stadia). Your explanation a few posts above summed it up pretty well.

[speedog]

Originally Posted by elly63

Yes but why would you spend money on a new facility for two teams that don't want to be together and that are already in right sized stadiums (stadia). Your explanation a few posts above summed it up pretty well.

C'mon, it's stadia. Don't be a dummy like me. Oh and ignore the thread title as well, just another hairy knuckle dragger.

[thurmas]

The Impact have had attendance struggles at Stade Saputo being so far out from downtown Montreal. The Alouettes are downtown but struggle with a century old stadium that needs major upgrades to be able to compete with modern day comparable CFL and MLS stadium in terms of creature comforts.

[thurmas]

Personally my own favorite idea if it was possible is to see a major renovation of Molson Stadium. It has the best location for CFL and MLS in Montreal by far for drawing fans and having a great atmosphere. It could be done similar to TD Place and have one Grandstand completely rebuilt, new seating with seats that have backs, more private suites to generate revenue. Maybe relocate the Tomlinson field house that would give the stadium room for temporary seating to host a Grey Cup or Heritage Classic for the Habs.

[DavefromSt.Vital]

Was at the last Roughrider game at soon to be old Mosaic. Very memorable experience. However, it is definitely time for a new facility. We were so crammed into the upper deck of the west side that people were having trouble getting past our feet when moving along our row. While the temperature was a little colder than the previous week's Heritage Classic in Winnipeg, it actually felt a lot warmer given the collective body heat.

NMS looked great as we did a circle tour.

[Oilkountry]

Originally Posted by EpicPonyTime

Like I said, that concept is still used on their website as an example of the stadium in the regular CFL configuration.

So...The updated concept is void because these were the originals? Be smart. Every Stadium project has had original concepts followed up by what is actually built including NMS,IGF,THF,TD place Even BC place had a scaled down reno concept (smaller scoreboard ect.) before the reno was done.

Nobody in their right mind actual believed that hideous field house was actually going to be built. They dressed it up like a high school stadium to try and get funding. And then they released the actual plans

[Oilkountry]

Originally Posted by thurmas

Even if you reconfigure or renovate the Big O it's already too expensive to do. Say you have a renovated Big O it will maybe have the same brief bump in Attendance like the Lions had with BC Place in 2010-2012 and then quickly fall back to reality. Is 200,300,400, or 500 million dollars really worth that when for maybe half that amount you can build a suitable stadium for both the Alouettes and Impact that could last 30-60 years for them if maintained properly like Commonwealth in Edmonton.

Originally Posted by jmt18325

Sure but isn't it going to cost $500M just to demolish the stadium?

Both of you just don't get it do you?

-The stadium isn't being demolished regardless of cost. Montrealers don't want it demolished it's wound up in the historical fabric of the city and believe it or not people actually like it.

-What makes you think the impact want nor need a new stadium? Especially when that means sharing it with grid iron football? Saputo may be bare bones but its a great MLS stadium really

-250-300M is being invested in the big O already. I don't have a timeline on that but it's already been stated by the city of Montreal that the stadium will receive the upgrades needed at a price tag of 250-300M

[esquire]

^ I would agree. Neither Saputo nor Molson are ideal, both have flaws when it comes to location, amenities, etc. But I'm sure both the Als and Impact can live with those flaws when it means effectively controlling their own properly-scaled venues.

As for Olympic Stadium, I think it's fairly clear that as troubled as that venue is, it has an outsized role in Montreal's civic identity along with being the main venue for large events, even if those tend to be somewhat sporadic these days. Even though Montreal could probably get better bang for the buck in the long run by demolishing and rebuilding, I'm sure they'll continue to put money into sprucing up the old place.

[Oilkountry]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ I would agree. Neither Saputo nor Molson are ideal, both have flaws when it comes to location, amenities, etc. But I'm sure both the Als and Impact can live with those flaws when it means effectively controlling their own properly-scaled venues.

As for Olympic Stadium, I think it's fairly clear that as troubled as that venue is, it has an outsized role in Montreal's civic identity along with being the main venue for large events, even if those tend to be somewhat sporadic these days. Even though Montreal could probably get better bang for the buck in the long run by demolishing and rebuilding, I'm sure they'll continue to put money into sprucing up the old place.

My idea is the hybrid between the 2. Build a new smaller stadium inside the stadium. Destroy the original stands. Build a 40,000 seater inside the place for grey cups, "Outdoor" hockey games, CFL/MLS playoffs. Honestly I could see the als moving back if it was done right

[osmo]

Big O isn't coming down.

Civic Pride is nice but a $500-700mio price tag to crush all that concrete is the more obvious reason.

Speaking of the Als from points brought up recently, one experience to share. Being back in Montreal this past weekend and my first time there when the Als were in town it was obvious they were playing. The Als have traction in this city. I could see game jerseys out and about, business with signs up promoting game day deals, etc.

This is a big contrast to Toronto where you can only tell the Argos are playing if you are within a block of BMO Field.

Anecdotes but it just is more to go along with the dirty secret of low fan numbers for the Argos in Toronto.

[Berklon]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

My idea is the hybrid between the 2. Build a new smaller stadium inside the stadium. Destroy the original stands. Build a 40,000 seater inside the place for grey cups, "Outdoor" hockey games, CFL/MLS playoffs. Honestly I could see the als moving back if it was done right

If you're going to build a new stadium, why would you want to put it inside something that has a bad atmosphere? Any intimacy gained from a smaller stadium (ie. closer to the field) would be lost by the huge concrete and cavernous building that swallows it. It would still feel like you're inside a massive domed stadium. It's like having a nice glass of house-wine and mixing it in with a Super BigGulp.

I'd rather have a smaller stadium all to itself surrounded by the real outside world - with sunlight, etc. It would probably be cheaper too.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by osmo

Speaking of the Als from points brought up recently, one experience to share. Being back in Montreal this past weekend and my first time there when the Als were in town it was obvious they were playing. The Als have traction in this city. I could see game jerseys out and about, business with signs up promoting game day deals, etc.

.

I agree with this. Even outside the city but within the province of Quebec, the Alouettes may not be ubiquitous but they're still very much there within your field of vision if you're even a casual sports fan.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

My idea is the hybrid between the 2. Build a new smaller stadium inside the stadium. Destroy the original stands. Build a 40,000 seater inside the place for grey cups, "Outdoor" hockey games, CFL/MLS playoffs. Honestly I could see the als moving back if it was done right

Makes sense. The supporting infrastructure is all there already. If they made it open air, they could put up a decent 40,000 seat outdoor stadium that would be half-paid for by the savings on the Big O's roof repair bill alone.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I agree with this. Even outside the city but within the province of Quebec, the Alouettes may not be ubiquitous but they're still very much there within your field of vision if you're even a casual sports fan.

Oddly enough, didn't attendance increase in the final games after they were eliminated from the playoffs. I think the Als are starting to figure out they have to get back to work again and rebuild the fanbase after basking in the post Calvillo glow that has now long disappeared.

Starting to see a much more serious football club after the personnel issues of this year and the future is looking brighter.

[Oilkountry]

Originally Posted by Berklon

If you're going to build a new stadium, why would you want to put it inside something that has a bad atmosphere? Any intimacy gained from a smaller stadium (ie. closer to the field) would be lost by the huge concrete and cavernous building that swallows it. It would still feel like you're inside a massive domed stadium. It's like having a nice glass of house-wine and mixing it in with a Super BigGulp.

I'd rather have a smaller stadium all to itself surrounded by the real outside world - with sunlight, etc. It would probably be cheaper too.

Im legitimately getting frustrated here

Yes an IGF or NMS would be great in Montreal for the Als

But that's not the reality. The als don't need a stadium. Molson is doing great for them. But IF your going to do a renovation worth 100's of millions of dollars to the big O in the first place why not give it the biggest role possible yeah? So let's say they want to try and attract the Als back to the big O. youve got 300M being sunk into the stadium already so you might as well get the best bang for your buck

40,000 seats, luxury boxes. Open/retractable roof, close to the field, closer to the ceiling. You would really barley even see the big ugly roof at that point because the stands would be so high. Not saying the als would move back but the stadium itself could hold a way bigger role in the Montreal sports landscape.

Think original mosaic concept,

Stands at a way more aggressive pitch, Way less seats Basically shove NMS concept 1 inside of the existing Big O shell, What you will end up with is a great stadium with the biggest concourses and luxury suites ever

[wave46]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

Im legitimately getting frustrated here

Yes an IGF or NMS would be great in Montreal for the Als

But that's not the reality. The als don't need a stadium. Molson is doing great for them. But IF your going to do a renovation worth 100's of millions of dollars to the big O in the first place why not give it the biggest role possible yeah? So let's say they want to try and attract the Als back to the big O. youve got 300M being sunk into the stadium already so you might as well get the best bang for your buck

40,000 seats, luxury boxes. Open/retractable roof, close to the field, closer to the ceiling. You would really barley even see the big ugly roof at that point because the stands would be so high. Not saying the als would move back but the stadium itself could hold a way bigger role in the Montreal sports landscape.

Think original mosaic concept,

Stands at a way more aggressive pitch, Way less seats Basically shove NMS concept 1 inside of the existing Big O shell, What you will end up with is a great stadium with the biggest concourses and luxury suites ever

The only fear I have is that the stadium won't lend itself to any major changes without severe structural work. The 2003 and 2015 renovations to Soldier Field in Chicago cost more than a billion dollars total. Sure, you're dealing with a US football stadium, so a premium cost is expected, but I can't imagine $300 million doing much for the Big O and I can't see much more funding being provided than that.

The Big O is a no-win situation unfortunately, and that's a shame.

[speedog]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

Both of you just don't get it do you?

-The stadium isn't being demolished regardless of cost. Montrealers don't want it demolished it's wound up in the historical fabric of the city and believe it or not people actually like it.

-What makes you think the impact want nor need a new stadium? Especially when that means sharing it with grid iron football? Saputo may be bare bones but its a great MLS stadium really

-250-300M is being invested in the big O already. I don't have a timeline on that but it's already been stated by the city of Montreal that the stadium will receive the upgrades needed at a price tag of 250-300M

Curious, what implications do these stated monies have on an average owner's property taxes? Also, would only tax payers in the city of Montreal be affected or would all boroughs be included?

[Dalreg]

$300 million for the Big O will barely get a pressure wash and new coat of paint. All these dreams from some on here are big dreams and that's about it. You want to gut the stadium and start from scratch then you will be looking north of $1 Billion.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by speedog

Curious, what implications do these stated monies have on an average owner's property taxes? Also, would only tax payers in the city of Montreal be affected or would all boroughs be included?

The province would be kicking in a large chunk of that.

It's a de facto provincial government agency that owns and runs the stadium.