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  #5461  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2016, 8:37 PM
excel excel is offline
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Originally Posted by Cage View Post
Any washroom at YYC has temperature controls on the right hand side of the faucet near the base. Rotate down for hot and up for cold. I have been using the temperature controls for the past 10 years.
The thought of drinking water from a public bathroom is not appealing to me. When people are looking to refill empty water bottles I'm sure a public bathroom is the last place they will look. Water fountains should have been implemented outside all the main bathrooms.
     
     
  #5462  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2016, 8:48 PM
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Originally Posted by CorporateWhore View Post
As a guy who is chronically early to everything, I have a feeling I'm going to hate this new call-to-gate system. And it's not just a case of "show up later", because the problem with airports is that they are a total crapshoot. Sometimes you breeze through security, sometimes there's a 200 person line. So people like me show up early every damn time just in case. Especially when I'm with my kids.

It seems like every new aviation "innovation" is just one more step in turning us into travelling cattle.
For those who show up at the gate early, the new terminal is miles ahead of the old terminal. The new terminal condenses the required formalities into a much more compact space and gets the formalities out of the way earlier than old terminal.

In the old terminal one could not go through US CBP until 2 hours prior to departure. This also acted as a limiter on access to preboard security because this function was behind USCBP. The new terminal has check-in, pre-board security, and customs before entering the central hold room area.

If you get to the airport at the three hour mark, under the old system you have to wait in the chair less checkin space until the 2 hour mark and then go through all the hectic formalities in under 1.5 hours before boarding commenced.

The old process caused a series of small waits throughout the airport journey rather than going through at your own pace. The new airport is allows all travelers to work at their own pace.
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  #5463  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2016, 9:01 PM
Cage Cage is offline
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Originally Posted by excel View Post
The thought of drinking water from a public bathroom is not appealing to me. When people are looking to refill empty water bottles I'm sure a public bathroom is the last place they will look. Water fountains should have been implemented outside all the main bathrooms.
Where are the water fountains in the old terminal building? Fankfurt airport directs users to the public bathroom in order to get "Trinkwasser", not that the German's are well known for freely available tap water at restaurants. For 2 Euro I can get a beer stein at the local cafe.
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  #5464  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2016, 9:17 PM
CrossedTheTracks CrossedTheTracks is offline
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Originally Posted by Cage View Post
Where are the water fountains in the old terminal building? Fankfurt airport directs users to the public bathroom in order to get "Trinkwasser", not that the German's are well known for freely available tap water at restaurants. For 2 Euro I can get a beer stein at the local cafe.
If I remember correctly... outside the washrooms close to the end of pier C; right outside washrooms in mid-pier B (transborder side, close to Starbucks); roughly mid-pier B (dom/intl side) in one of the gate areas. Also right outside washrooms in A/B swing gates.

Looking close to the washrooms is an obvious spot, because they're usually there (if anywhere), usually because there's already potable plumbing in such spots.
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  #5465  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2016, 9:48 PM
Cage Cage is offline
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Originally Posted by Acey View Post
To me the effectiveness of call to gate will be the assign times, and they have full control over that. Like WestJet transborders are getting posted 75 minutes prior... that seems like too much, especially for a -700 with only 130 pax. AS/DL/UA times seem to be 45-50 min prior (though yyc.com is advertising at least 60 min for every flight). Rouge is doing 120 minutes.
Westjet's main trans border and international departure bank is 10-11am with 6-8 mainline departures. Typically there are 1-3 last minute gate swaps that are communicated at the 1.5 hour mark. By 1.5 hours before departure, the majority of WS pax have all ready checked in, so their printed boarding passes have the wrong gate listed. Take my August family vacation to SAN, I got gate assignment for B21 the night before, on check-in it was B21, by the time we reached security the gate changed to B38 due to a tail swap with the LAS flight that was also an 800. I would have gladly taken the call to gate rather than have get the family to gate 21 only have to go back to the security area and continue onto gate 38. As it was my iPhone gave me the revised gate assignment while we were at security, so I saved myself the hassle of having to withstand the wife's verbal berating for having gone to the wrong gate.

Ideally, Call to gate would work best if the airport took control of their FIDS and posted please wait until 50 minutes prior to departure for all narrowbody aircraft and 90 minutes prior to departure for all widebody aircraft.

It is not necessary to force the airlines to keep gate assignments a secret. Under the gate swap scenario, the airline has to deal with communicating the gate swaps to its passengers. Under the new call to gate system, the airport can and should ban Westjet from making whole terminal announcements for gate swaps. There is a reason why I am picking on WS here, every other airline at YYC has a better system for confirming gate swaps than WS to the point where there is only one airline that is dependent upon whole terminal announcements for gate swaps and final calls.

Quote:
Ideally, these times would be tweaked based on loads and departure times of adjacent gates, such that the number of people in the holdroom and at a given gate pair could be effectively modulated. Cage, is this feasible?
Your plan is feasible for every airline except WS. WS problem is that they want 6 transborder departures in space of 20 minutes. There is a process bottleneck at the gate area as a single walkway is used to get passengers to two bridge heads. You cannot dual load gates 72 and 73 without causing passenger confusion and pax getting onto the wrong aircraft. Launching six aircraft in 20 minutes would require one aircraft on all six gate nodes. Alternately the departure bank would have to be split into separate two groups that are atleast 30 minutes apart.

UA, AC, and DL can all do dual departures from the same node as their departures are more spread out and they are using large regional aircraft with half the seats as a WS 738.
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  #5466  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2016, 10:20 PM
Tobuz Tobuz is offline
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Gates 70/71 for domestic flights?

If I understand correctly, Gates 70 and 71 are swing gates that can also be used for domestic departures?

If that's true, do those departing passengers have access to the central plaza of shops and restaurants in the D pier before departure?

Or is there some sort of access control so they can only get to/from the C pier via the connecting walkway -- and can only access C pier amenities?

If so, what is that access control that ensures only Intl pax enter the D pier from the domestic terminal? (Is there a BP check before entering the International D amenities and gate area, kind of like the checkpoint at YVR before going into their international terminal?)
     
     
  #5467  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2016, 10:28 PM
excel excel is offline
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Originally Posted by Cage View Post
Where are the water fountains in the old terminal building? Fankfurt airport directs users to the public bathroom in order to get "Trinkwasser", not that the German's are well known for freely available tap water at restaurants. For 2 Euro I can get a beer stein at the local cafe.
Even if there is a lack of fountains in the old terminal, this is a brand new terminal.
     
     
  #5468  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2016, 10:32 PM
MMMBeer MMMBeer is offline
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As someone who enjoys getting every last sip of coffee, beer, wine or whatever, and spending the least possible time at the gate as possible, CTG is a dream.

Hopefully it's accurate once it tells you boarding soon > pre-boarding > now boarding > final call. Hate to miss my flight by relying a little too heavily on CTG.

I found flying from IST>YYZ, the CTG screens at IST were quite conservative. Boarding Soon in reality meant "stand in secure holdroom for 30 mins". With no washroom once you were in the holdroom and insufficient seating.
     
     
  #5469  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2016, 10:36 PM
McMurph McMurph is offline
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Originally Posted by Suburgatory View Post
Washroom. Sink. Faucet on. Water.
As someone who once did janitorial work in a large public institution I'd be inclined to advise you not to drink out of a sink.
     
     
  #5470  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2016, 10:51 PM
Cage Cage is offline
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Originally Posted by Tobuz View Post
If I understand correctly, Gates 70 and 71 are swing gates that can also be used for domestic departures?

If that's true, do those departing passengers have access to the central plaza of shops and restaurants in the D pier before departure?

Or is there some sort of access control so they can only get to/from the C pier via the connecting walkway -- and can only access C pier amenities?

If so, what is that access control that ensures only Intl pax enter the D pier from the domestic terminal? (Is there a BP check before entering the International D amenities and gate area, kind of like the checkpoint at YVR before going into their international terminal?)
Gates 70/71/72 can swing in three directions. There are two separate desks for domestic and international on the third level and a third desk on the fourth level for transborder. The domestic desk for gate 70-71-72 is located immediately after the D/E YYC Link terminus station. There is permanent wall separating the domestic holdroom from the international holdroom and international desk. At the far SE corner of the domestic holdroom as a Commissionaire desk that allows International and transborder BP holders access to the D area of the terminal. Once past the Commissionaire, connection guests going to the USA perform a salmon maneuver (go against the flow of other traffic) towards the duty free area to get to USCBP pre-clearance.

As Spock says about Khan in Star Trek Two:
Quote:
Spock: He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two-dimensional thinking.
One of the aspects about the new terminal is that it incorporates three dimensional approach to passenger flow. Transborder is vertically separated from domestic and international sections, where as domestic and international are horizontally separated.
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  #5471  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2016, 11:10 PM
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casper casper is offline
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Originally Posted by Bokimon View Post
...
I give kudos to yyc for taking some of the modern design systems that european airports currently use.
The world's busiest Int'l airport LHR already uses this system extensively and almost a hundred million travellers who transit through there (well QEll and T5 at least) breeze through this in a sinch, and they probably have even more irregular travellers sharing the same kind of gripes many Calgarians currently are. (But LHR also has water stations to quell the gripes )
QEII is not an example that should be emulated. My most recent experience was transferring from Lufthansa (from Germany) to Air Canada (to Vancouver). It required almost an hour to make the connection an enormous amount of walking up and down escalators multiple line ups. (Both airports were parked within eye shot of each other. It is a poorly designed transfer airport. Calgary (and virtually every Canadian airport) can do much better and does.
     
     
  #5472  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2016, 11:16 PM
Cage Cage is offline
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Originally Posted by excel View Post
Even if there is a lack of fountains in the old terminal, this is a brand new terminal.
If there are no water fountains in the old terminal, where are the thousands of complaints regarding lack of water fountains?

The new terminal addressed all the major issues that was lacking in the old terminal. By far the major issues were:
(1) Lack of space for central processor functions (checkin, security, customs & immigration),
(2) Peak hour gate capacity constraints (namely early morning transborder and mid afternoon international widebody),
(3) Lack of food and duty free retail options.

Along the way there were hundreds of other nits that were fixed and operations enhanced. However for all the attention that water fountains have garnered here and on twitter, the lack of water fountains in the old terminal did not have any complaints.
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  #5473  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2016, 11:33 PM
hoboman27 hoboman27 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cage View Post
If there are no water fountains in the old terminal, where are the thousands of complaints regarding lack of water fountains?

The new terminal addressed all the major issues that was lacking in the old terminal. By far the major issues were:
(1) Lack of space for central processor functions (checkin, security, customs & immigration),
(2) Peak hour gate capacity constraints (namely early morning transborder and mid afternoon international widebody),
(3) Lack of food and duty free retail options.

Along the way there were hundreds of other nits that were fixed and operations enhanced. However for all the attention that water fountains have garnered here and on twitter, the lack of water fountains in the old terminal did not have any complaints.
I think size might be a factor, if you have to walk over km to get to your gate (from check in counters to the very end of E), you are probably really exhausted, and that's when you want something to drink.
     
     
  #5474  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2016, 11:42 PM
CalgaryCheese CalgaryCheese is offline
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YYC's twitter mentioning that there is a water fountain in the international departures court:

https://mobile.twitter.com/FlyYYC/status/793467278805262336
     
     
  #5475  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2016, 11:50 PM
Myke Myke is offline
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Sept 2016 Stats

Overall up 3.7% YTD up 1.44%
Domestic up 3.1% YTD up 2.07%
Transborder up 1.8% YTD down 3.83%
International up 13.6% YTD up 7.72%

http://www.yyc.com/Portals/0/MEDIA/Media-PassengerStats/br_paxtotal.pdf
     
     
  #5476  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2016, 12:24 AM
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Johnny Aussie Johnny Aussie is offline
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Originally Posted by Myke View Post
Sept 2016 Stats

Overall up 3.7% YTD up 1.44%
Domestic up 3.1% YTD up 2.07%
Transborder up 1.8% YTD down 3.83%
International up 13.6% YTD up 7.72%

http://www.yyc.com/Portals/0/MEDIA/Media-PassengerStats/br_paxtotal.pdf
Impressed!

Domestic and Transborder both support the notion that prairie services being somewhat consolidated at YYC.

International again.... thanks to WS to LGW, WK to ZRH and HU to PEK.
     
     
  #5477  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2016, 12:43 AM
CrossedTheTracks CrossedTheTracks is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cage View Post
If there are no water fountains in the old terminal, where are the thousands of complaints regarding lack of water fountains?

[snip]

However for all the attention that water fountains have garnered here and on twitter, the lack of water fountains in the old terminal did not have any complaints.
Huh? I already answered your previous query about about where the water fountains exist in the old terminal. There wasn't any (water) thing to complain about. Easily recalled from memory, despite my last flight being 10 months ago, and despite your otherwise voluminous (and much appreciated!) knowledge of YYC.

As for people nit-picking, well big surprise, this is human behaviour.
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  #5478  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2016, 12:56 AM
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yyc_engineer yyc_engineer is offline
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I am in no way defending the lack of water fountains, but I really don't understand the concern here. If you can afford a plane ticket, you can afford to purchase a bottle of water - simple as that.

I can think of many scenarios in life where water is not freely provided to you. For example, in your home, where you pay your municipality for water.

It's probably bad PR for the airport to not have installed fountains, as they would have increased the construction costs by 0.001% and been more environmentally friendly, but it's really not something people should be up in arms about. Water is free in the w/c (yes they have temp. controls) or otherwise you can buy a water bottle. End of story.

This call to gate stuff...now that is much more interesting. I give them 6 months until they abandon the concept completely. The best thing to do would be install some more seats near the gates and provide gate assignments to passengers on their boarding passes at check-in (ie. the old/normal process). Once people get to the airport they can decide whether they want to sit near their plane without food or booze or if they want to go shopping and come back to their pre-assigned gate at boarding time. This would be win-win for the passengers and the airport's so-called "revenue generation" model.

I have already had, in the last two days, two ESL passengers stop and ask me where their gate was. One of them (on today's AC to FRA) had a hand written gate number on his printed boarding pass. I am guessing the agent at check-in wrote it in as they probably sensed he was not going to understand call-to-gate and likely would not be shopping for Prada handbags or slamming back Hoegaarden's at one of the bars. They did the right thing IMO, otherwise they would have to send a staff member hunting through the holdroom to find this man during final call.

Call To Gate, in it's current form, simply is not needed in Calgary where gate positions as plentiful (and will be for the foreseeable future). Passengers are getting older, have special needs (eg. families, wheelchairs) and, believe it or not, the average traveler through YYC speaks and understands English much less than the average traveler of 20, 10 or even 5 years ago. This is a combination of increased tourism from abroad as well as increased travel back to "home" countries by recent and non-recent immigrants.

I personally would be in full support of abandoning CTG, hopefully before the end of the year. Those who want to shop or get liquored up will do it anyways - they don't need the terminal design to force them to do so.

Last edited by yyc_engineer; Nov 2, 2016 at 1:33 AM.
     
     
  #5479  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2016, 1:08 AM
Canadian74 Canadian74 is offline
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Is there enough space at the gates to install seats if they indeed change their minds?
     
     
  #5480  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2016, 1:10 AM
Tobuz Tobuz is offline
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Another of the (fairly typical) responses of the past 36 hours ... this one from this evening:

https://twitter.com/kbourrier/status/793596105430671360

People are clearly getting confused by the system and the design intent.
     
     
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