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  #481  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2016, 2:14 AM
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VancouverOfTheFuture VancouverOfTheFuture is offline
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Originally Posted by Prometheus View Post
It's getting very mundane watching another alleged anti-racist defend a system which maintains a set of rules and expectations for one group based on its race and a different set of rules and expectations for all other groups which do not belong to that race.
well don't you know that as long as you aren't white, it is okay to be racist to whites because of what happened decades/centuries ago before many people today were born.

i have a story that proves just that point from someone i know from work. (yup i know may will say "WAHHH LIES ITS A STORY" but i will tell it anyways). it is short.

the guy from work is white, and he was working with a First Nations individual. and well they didn't get along do to work, nothing personal. the FN guy called him "just white bread" and well the white guy was offended so reported him. and so he has a conversation with HR and they were pretty much are like "really? come on. reporting him for that?" and he responded with "if i had called him "just a red skin," would we be having this conversation?" and needless to say that knocked some sense into that HR person that, yes, racism can be and is both ways.

i thought it was an interesting story since i notice this a lot in everyday life, "white guilt" so to speak. basically because you are white you have to pander to everyone else for things that happened before you were born. it is like the law of needing to hire X# of minorities; i don't agree with it because basically you are saying "oh white person you are awesome, but we have to hire this less qualified person, sorry." if we made a law saying you need X# of whites it would be all over the place "RACISM EVERYWHERE!!!!!!" but because it is towards whites, well then it is a-okay!
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  #482  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2016, 2:52 AM
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^^Saying that "everyone can be racist" is oversimplification given that racism from those with power is more harmful and oppressive than from those without. But yeah, I'm totally against affirmative action if only for its role in continued divisions between people and fueling the anger of Trump supporters - never mind the fact that affirmative action, while originally meant to offset disadvantage to certain peoples caused by historical injustice, is now also used by universities to punish the Chinese for overcoming said injustice too well

Quote:
Originally Posted by hankthetank View Post
Oh boy, you sound borderline racist with your remarks. After hundreds of years of white Euro-Canadians stealing their land, killing their people to the point where they almost don't exist anymore you say that they are having their cake and eating it too by simply building their own community and trying to become self sustaining. Their treaty is a tripartite agreement between TFN, BC and Canada. They still have rules to follow. TFN is also a member municipality of Metro Vancouver. I think a lot of people are misinformed on how TFN functions.
Most would consider a mega-mall on remote farmland (totally-dependent on highway upgrades outside of treaty lands) to be the opposite of "self sustaining". The fact that the First Nations of all people have to resort to doing the very projects they'd rightly protest against is undignifying. If this for you is what constitutes "compassion and healing", feel free to call me racist for suggesting that this solution is totally counter productive.

Some of you believe that roads are a human right like water, and comes free like air. By not holding developers responsible for their share of road costs is how North America subsidizes private car use so heavily. I'm against outdated backwater models of development because every dollar these abominations force upon governments to spend on road infrastructure is money taken away from transit and good urban planning. If every project had to be, say, taxed $10K for an infrastructure fund for every parking spot proposed, we'd see better forms of development.

Last edited by dleung; Oct 30, 2016 at 3:19 AM.
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  #483  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2016, 2:56 PM
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Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture View Post
well don't you know that as long as you aren't white, it is okay to be racist to whites because of what happened decades/centuries ago before many people today were born.

i have a story that proves just that point from someone i know from work. (yup i know may will say "WAHHH LIES ITS A STORY" but i will tell it anyways). it is short.

the guy from work is white, and he was working with a First Nations individual. and well they didn't get along do to work, nothing personal. the FN guy called him "just white bread" and well the white guy was offended so reported him. and so he has a conversation with HR and they were pretty much are like "really? come on. reporting him for that?" and he responded with "if i had called him "just a red skin," would we be having this conversation?" and needless to say that knocked some sense into that HR person that, yes, racism can be and is both ways.

i thought it was an interesting story since i notice this a lot in everyday life, "white guilt" so to speak. basically because you are white you have to pander to everyone else for things that happened before you were born. it is like the law of needing to hire X# of minorities; i don't agree with it because basically you are saying "oh white person you are awesome, but we have to hire this less qualified person, sorry." if we made a law saying you need X# of whites it would be all over the place "RACISM EVERYWHERE!!!!!!" but because it is towards whites, well then it is a-okay!

....not sure I even want to respond to this. Please do us all a favour and educate yourself.
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  #484  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2016, 3:00 PM
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Originally Posted by hankthetank View Post
....not sure I even want to respond to this. Please do us all a favour and educate yourself.
What?! he was pointing out how racism can occur to any race. You go educate yourself.

Edit. Just read your past comments and you sound like a friggin troll.
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  #485  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2016, 3:04 PM
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Originally Posted by dleung View Post
^^Saying that "everyone can be racist" is oversimplification given that racism from those with power is more harmful and oppressive than from those without. But yeah, I'm totally against affirmative action if only for its role in continued divisions between people and fueling the anger of Trump supporters - never mind the fact that affirmative action, while originally meant to offset disadvantage to certain peoples caused by historical injustice, is now also used by universities to punish the Chinese for overcoming said injustice too well



Most would consider a mega-mall on remote farmland (totally-dependent on highway upgrades outside of treaty lands) to be the opposite of "self sustaining". The fact that the First Nations of all people have to resort to doing the very projects they'd rightly protest against is undignifying. If this for you is what constitutes "compassion and healing", feel free to call me racist for suggesting that this solution is totally counter productive.

Some of you believe that roads are a human right like water, and comes free like air. By not holding developers responsible for their share of road costs is how North America subsidizes private car use so heavily. I'm against outdated backwater models of development because every dollar these abominations force upon governments to spend on road infrastructure is money taken away from transit and good urban planning. If every project had to be, say, taxed $10K for an infrastructure fund for every parking spot proposed, we'd see better forms of development.

Please read the entirety of my posts before jumping to what amount to racist and incorrect assumptions.
Developers at TFN are paying for every road being built in the community. Nobody would let TFN hook up to their sanitary so they had to construct their own $23 million sewer plant. Talk about wasting money on infrastructure, I'm sure you were outraged on behalf of TFN that other municipalities wouldn't let them hook into their system saving millions of dollars?
I agree that sprawl shouldn't be subsidized and at TFN it's remarkably less so than many other municipalities. All the residential, commercial and industrial development is being paid for by developers. The community TFN is building will be far more walkable and complete than much of what is brung built in surrounding municipalities and what has already been built. Plus it's providing jobs and housing for TFN members. Yes, it's come at a cost but it's pretty arrogant to sit here and blame people who are still treated as lesser people to this day for developing something pretty similar to what other municipalities do.
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  #486  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2016, 4:38 PM
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Originally Posted by osirisboy View Post
What?! he was pointing out how racism can occur to any race. You go educate yourself.

Edit. Just read your past comments and you sound like a friggin troll.
Yes, racism occurs cross all races. Everybody knows that. So that means it's OK to be racist towards First Nations people? He's implying that due to events that happened "centuries ago before we were born" mean that we can't discuss current issues that exist with First Nations people. First Nations people are STILL treated very poorly comparatively speaking. Racism and discrimination is not something that happened centuries ago before we were born. It is alive and well.
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  #487  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2016, 6:34 PM
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Originally Posted by hankthetank View Post
Yes, racism occurs cross all races. Everybody knows that. So that means it's OK to be racist towards First Nations people? He's implying that due to events that happened "centuries ago before we were born" mean that we can't discuss current issues that exist with First Nations people. First Nations people are STILL treated very poorly comparatively speaking. Racism and discrimination is not something that happened centuries ago before we were born. It is alive and well.
That's all well and good, but what we are talking about here is a brand new project that appears to have been built in a vacuum with no regard for the impact on surrounding municipalities and infrastructure. Who built it has nothing to do with the problems it is already exhibiting.
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  #488  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2016, 6:48 PM
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I don't think that further discussion about racism or purported racism is really appropriate for this thread, and it's clearly riling people up. Let's keep the discussion on track.
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  #489  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2016, 12:45 AM
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It's the third weekend since opening, so I figured the crowds would already be less to check this place out. Nope, parking was 75% full at Saturday 5pm and the place was busy. No problem with the traffic though and I don't understand how the place got gridlocked on the first weekend. The roadways seem very adequate to me.

The place itself was pretty nice and it is huge. Bass Pro Shop is definitely a destination and a must-see. I was impressed by both the bowling alley and the grand foyer. They are sure to attract families for a long time.

I was a bit disappointed by the art work, but generally the place felt pleasing once inside. Good array of stores IMO and several seemed to be new to the Lower Mainland.

I suppose people commenting that this place will be mainly for customers living south of Fraser are onto something. I took note of the significant number of East Asian and Indian people who I can only guess being largely from South Surrey. The demographics felt noticeable different from other shopping centers north of Fraser. Bus to the ferries was also busy, so I suppose there is some lure for folks from Vancouver Island as well.

I might see myself driving there few times a year. It's quite a long drive from Metrotown and shopping is aplenty much closer, but it is a bit different kind of shopping destination. I will post photos later.
And here are my photos, enjoy.





The 6000-car parking lot is absolutely massive and there are dedicated parking spaces for all kinds of shoppers.



Inside they have used different natural materials that make for a very pleasing appearance. There is lots of wood and even the lighting is soft and warm.











There are many art installations all over the mall which are a nice touch.







Some of the art pieces are really beautiful.









There are few cafeterias along the long corridors, but the 1,100-seat food court in the middle is where most restaurants are at (minus Boston Pizza and Montana's, which have separate entrances on the side. The food court is a busy place, but I didn't find the noise level too bad.





There are around 200 stores inside the main mall, but the main attraction is the very first Bass Pro Shop in British Columbia. It occupies a huge section of the eastern wing and is an attraction on its own. As I hope my photos will show, it's definitely worth a visit!





What they don't have at the store, you don't need. The selection is massive.









One of the many in-store attractions is a aquatic themed bowling alley and bar! The place was packed with families on a Saturday night and I can see it remaining busy, as the setting is very unique.











They have not spared any costs with the store and another attraction is the grand hallway through the store. With dozens of animals on display, it is a big draw for families.





Yes, there is even a waterfall and a huge fish tank with big fish!





The hallway leads to a separate entrace to the store through a very nice cabin themed lobby.





I presume that all the animals are real or at least they looked very life-like!







Back on the outside.



They have definitely learned from the opening weekend gong show, when people were stuck in a parking lot congestion for as long as four hours! Now there are guides at every entrance indicating that there are several exits from the mall.



Overall I was impressed by how much effort they have put into making Tsawwassen Mills a destination and Bass Pro Shop definitely is a must-see. There is a lot draw with this place, even though it is very far from most big residential areas and a car is needed. That is also the shame part about the mall, but I think it has lots of potential and we had a good time and will be visiting occassionally in the future.

I hope you enjoyed my tour of the place.
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  #490  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2016, 12:09 AM
CoryHolmes CoryHolmes is offline
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I went there yesterday and I agree with all your points, especially the food court. It's massive, and unlike Guildford, the room is large enough so that the sound doesn't echo. Guildford is tiny and with much shorter ceilings, which only amplifies the sound.

The parking was something else, though. Especially with the placement of the exits. Getting in off of Hwy 17 was easy enough, but getting out meant circumnavigating almost the whole mall to find of the exits.
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  #491  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2016, 6:42 AM
red-paladin red-paladin is offline
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As this thread has become about updates on urban development in the Tsawwassen First Nation, instead of just a thread about the plan, I've changed the title to Tsawwassen First Nations Updates. Now it matches with the other regional/municipal updates threads.
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  #492  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2016, 7:11 PM
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I haven't heard people talk so excitedly and favourably about a new mall for the longest time. Fact is, if a mall is well-designed, or even nicely themed, it can generate a lot of excitement and draw crowds. However, in the long run, I still don't think this mall can compete with the newer ones in town centres.

BTW, those are great photo shots, Klazu. Thank you!
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  #493  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2016, 8:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Vin View Post
Fact is, if a mall is well-designed, or even nicely themed, it can generate a lot of excitement and draw crowds.
Fact is this mall is not well designed or well themed. It is a mills mall. They are intentionally cheaply built under designed outlet centres.

This mall will do fine but don't mistake its success for something it isn't.
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  #494  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2016, 9:04 PM
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The set-up is aesthetically pleasing to the eyes: a very important aspect of a mall design.
This is evident from the photos shown. Will visit it this evening.

Last edited by Vin; Nov 2, 2016 at 10:00 PM.
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  #495  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2016, 9:37 PM
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Tsawwassen's mega-mall no Garden of Eden

STEVE WHYSALL
More from Steve Whysall


Published on: October 27, 2016 | Last Updated: October 27, 2016 7:28 AM PDT


Inside Tsawwassen Mills mall NICK PROCAYLO / PNG
Since I was in Tsawwassen visiting friends on the weekend, I decided to pop into the new $600 million, 180 store Tsawwassen Mills mega-mall to see what all the fuss was about.
What I immediately noticed was the use of plastic plants, especially plastic ornamental grasses and plastic topiary spires and cones, instead of real plants.
I know the owners of a very good Surrey-based company called Botany Bay who have perfected the art over the years of decorating malls with beautiful quality indoor plants, such as Ficus alii and Ficus benjamina or sansevieria, aglaonema, peace lilies, crotons and ponytail palms.
Plastic grass inside Tsawwassen Mills mega-mall.
Botany Bay has filled some of the best malls, including Metrotown in Burnaby, with superb indoor plants in classy containers.
I guess the owners of the new Tsawwassen mall never thought to call them in for a consultation.
It always strikes me as a little sad that West Coast businesses don’t make better use of available plant material to dress up their restaurants, cafes and shops. It seems like such a no-brainer. And there is so much evidence now about the health benefits of being around living plants.
Plastic plants at Tsawwassen Mills mall.
But I wondered why the Tsawwassen Mills mall didn’t even think it was worth having a giant floral display somewhere the way most hotel lobbies do nowadays.
You rarely step into the lobby of an office building without finding beautiful plant material on display – orchids and ZZ plants (Zamioculcas zamiifloria) and crotons – here, there and everywhere.
When I was in London in spring, I visited what I consider to be the biggest and most luxurious mall I have ever seen – Westfield in Shepherd’s Bush, which made spectacular use of high walls and massive street-size store fronts as well as large glass ceilings and roofs to allow in lots of natural light.
I wondered what height restrictions stopped Tsawwassen Mills from going higher and opening up the skyline to access natural light.
In the Westfield Mall, I also noticed elegant prosecco and champagne bars as well as dozens of quality restaurants and cafes.
In Tsawwassen, I couldn’t find a place to buy a glass of wine and a sliver of cheese – not a single café-bistro for weary shoppers to pause for a little light restorative refreshment. No Boston Pizza is not what I mean.
Plastic hedge at Tsawwassen Mills mall.
On the upside, I did find plenty of excellent shoe shops in this mecca of a mall. And I bought a new pair. If I ever need more shoes, I will probably go there.
But generally I found the overall atmosphere in this mega-mall to be the antithesis of what I find in most gardens – hard, glass, plastic, stone and steel surfaces compared to the soft, soothing, leafy green, natural feel of plants, restful shades of green and soft light of a beautiful garden.
I see more and more hotels are opting to create garden-like atmospheres with lovely waterfalls in lobbies and other guest areas. It’s what people are asking for – environments that make them feel relaxed and healthy.
If I were on the management team at Tsawwassen Mills I would give Botany Bay a call and see if I could get some real plants placed next to those ugly bus-stop-like sitting areas.
And I would definitely look at making the food court a more garden-like space; it looks pretty desolate right now.
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http://vancouversun.com/news/staff-blogs/tsawwassens-mega-mall-no-garden-of-eden


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  #496  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2016, 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by retro_orange View Post


http://vancouversun.com/news/staff-blogs/tsawwassens-mega-mall-no-garden-of-eden


Is this guy for real?

"Botany Bay has filled some of the best malls, including Metrotown in Burnaby, with superb indoor plants in classy containers.
I guess the owners of the new Tsawwassen mall never thought to call them in for a consultation."

Um.. They both have the same owner!

Ron.
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  #497  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2016, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by LeftCoaster View Post
Fact is this mall is not well designed or well themed. It is a mills mall. They are intentionally cheaply built under designed outlet centres.

This mall will do fine but don't mistake its success for something it isn't.
Couldn't agree more!! I have a listing in Tsawwassen so I've spending a lot of time there in between showings. I like it less each time. Typical Mills-style endless layout and super cheap finishes, trendy and 'of the moment' but won't likely age well. Very little appeal as there's no central area other than the food court, you just find yourself walking forever to get anywhere.

Overall design is horribly car-centric which totally out-of-step with the way retail complexes are designed these days.

Klaus' wonderful photography actually made it look far better than it is in person.
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  #498  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2016, 11:50 PM
Anorak Anorak is offline
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Originally Posted by retro_orange View Post


http://vancouversun.com/news/staff-blogs/tsawwassens-mega-mall-no-garden-of-eden


Wow. That article is heavily editorialised. It's just one person's opinion of how malls should be like, not a fact. It also reads like a paid advertisement for that plant company.

Last edited by Anorak; Nov 2, 2016 at 12:25 AM.
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  #499  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2016, 12:19 AM
retro_orange retro_orange is offline
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Wow. That article is heavily editorialised. It's just one persons opinion of how malls should be like, not a fact. It also reads like a paid advertisement for that plant company.
I know, i just found it surprising that they haven't used any real plants indoors. Plastic plants are cheap looking and hokey. I can't imagine how high the VOC levels in the air must be with all the new materials.
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  #500  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2016, 12:49 AM
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The inside of the mall looks, uh, nice in Klazu's photos, but I fear these extravagant outdoor pieces won't age well in our coastal environment, considering how just about everything else in metro Vancouver ends being covered in black streaks and mildew after a few years. They're going to have to be cleaned regularly.

Really good photos BTW Klazu!

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And here are my photos, enjoy.



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