Stadiums and Arenas of Canada part 2

[FrankieFlowerpot]

Bottom of the 9th last night

[osmo]

FIFA also looks at aspects that revolve around transportation and Airport capacity.

It isn't just about the stadiums.

Currently Montreal is the only facility that would meet the criteria for a Final match. This would be the segway for its eventual massive renovation it would need.

Rogers Centre isn't an option. For Toronto BMO Field and/or something new would be its paths towards hosting.

One or two cities would need to dual host. Again Montreal can host at both its soccer facilities.

As far as the rest of the places we have CFL facilities that can do the job. The only issue is what do you do with the league? It can't take a 2-3 week holiday, so this could be a potential thorny issue. Montreal and Calgary won't be used for a WC. You would have to sacrifice Winnipeg or Regina to then give the CFL 3 stadiums to have in play and then stagger bye-weeks so that it can work out smoothly.

If you did the then this is what the venue list looks like:

BC Place
Commonwealth
IGF
THF
BMO Field
Saputo stadium & Big O
TD Place

We would still need one more maybe. So either something new/temp gets built in Toronto or you push back/ahead CFL season so it does not conflict and you can get NMS on board.

You could probably squeeze 8 Stadiums. But BMO and Saputo would need a bunch of work done with temp seating and then the big renovation at BMO Field.

Grass isn't problem. They had grass inside in Detroit at the Silverdome in 1994. You are just laying sod down for a small duration. It would cost money but it is more than doable. All the Canadian stadiums would have sod laid down for this. FIFA isn't using turf so no point moaning about it, the men just won't show up to play on it.

[FFX-ME]

The Stade Saputo cannot be expanded to 40,000 so it cannot be used.

We would need to build one in Halifax.

[Acajack]

Why would Rogers be unusable for a World Cup? The only reason I can see (and I realize it's a big one) is the Blue Jays season, but I don't see any functional problems beyond that.

[FrankieFlowerpot]

https://twitter.com/NHLJets/status/789182101564166144

[Acajack]

Holy cow! It's happening already! So early in the season...

[someone123]

Here is a bit of Halifax stadium news that probably didn't make it to the Canada section:

Originally Posted by ns_kid

The gist of the story mentioned earlier by q12 is that said consortium, led by businessman Don Gardiner, is moving forward. Gardiner, according to ANS, met last week with CFL commissioner Jeffrey Orridge, where he got "encouraging signals" of interest in CFL expansion to Halifax.

According to the story, a figure of $140 million was discussed for a stadium to seat 20,000-25,000 people. Gardiner and his group, including engineering giant EllisDon, are proposing a facility that would be largely financed by private capital but would still be looking at up to 30% public financing.

Sites in Dartmouth Crossing and somewhere closer to Stanfield International were mentioned.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by someone123

Here is a bit of Halifax stadium news that probably didn't make it to the Canada section:

The airport??? OK, maybe it makes sense if they want to draw fans from across the Atlantic region.

[wacko]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Why would Rogers be unusable for a World Cup? The only reason I can see (and I realize it's a big one) is the Blue Jays season, but I don't see any functional problems beyond that.

Rogers Centre could still potentially host a World Cup semifinal and final, with BMO Field handling some of the lesser games. I don't see the Blue Jays allocating more time than that though.

One bright spot of a Canadian World Cup bid is that it could give Calgary an impetus to build a new stadium to replace McMahon. The Stampeders could still continue to play at McMahon during the actual event. And as mentioned above, there's also a possibility of building a new stadium in Halifax to be taken up by a future CFL team.

But as has been pointed out, one of the big problems is that most of our large stadiums are used primarily for sports other than soccer, so it would be a huge logistical hassle to try and accommodate everyone. Honestly, it'd probably be best for everyone concerned if FIFA ended up choosing a different country. I doubt we'd meet their current "standards" anyway. They'd really have to sink to unheard-of levels of humility, such that TD Place and Tim Hortons Field are possibilities to host games. (I say that in light of possible plans to expand the World Cup field to 40 teams as soon as 2026.)

It is slightly more likely that Canada would co-host the World Cup, with the U.S. as the organizing committee. In that case, Vancouver and Montreal are the most likely options for group stages. Still not sure if that would be worth anything more than minimal renovations to Olympic Stadium though. (Possibly not, as the stadium would be 50 years old by then, and it would likely be better to save that taxpayer money for something newer down the road. I still say Olympic can host some games regardless though.)

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by wacko

Rogers Centre could still potentially host a World Cup semifinal and final, with BMO Field handling some of the lesser games. I don't see the Blue Jays allocating more time than that though.

Quarterfinal and semifinal games for sure, but Rogers Centre isn't big enough or easily expandable to make it big enough to host a WC final.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Acajack

The airport??? OK, maybe it makes sense if they want to draw fans from across the Atlantic region.

It is hard to complain too much if it's going to be a mostly private project but there are a few problems with the way the stadium project has gone in Halifax:

- It doesn't have a public-sector champion so public land is off the table and the private developers seem to want a logistically simple greenfield site which is cheaper to begin with but might prove to be a mistake in the long run.
- The sort of people who would normally demand transit or bike access and the like (or would even just be aware early on that access to a 2-lane highway does not solve all transportation problems) are not participating in the planning process at all and generally don't seem to care about a stadium. The stadium has never been a high priority for municipal politicians or staff.
- The universities and other potential stakeholders don't seem to be coordinating with each other or participating in this project.
- There has been a sense that because Halifax is a smaller city a CFL team there would have to appeal to the rest of the region to be successful. This might be true in terms of getting people to watch on TV and buy merchandise but it's probably not a good reason to pick a site that's farther out of the city. Most of the people buying tickets and attending will be coming from the city. And actually Halifax itself is fairly central to the population of NS and of the Maritimes as a whole. It doesn't make sense to increase local travel times by 200% so you can reduce travel times for smaller towns 2 hours away by 20%.

[MonctonRad]

Central to the population of NS, yes (especially since half the population of NS lives in greater Halifax).

Central to the population of the Maritimes as a whole - hell no. The nearest large city is Moncton and we're more than 2.5 hours away. Charlottetown, Fredericton and Saint John are all more like four hours away. Once you start talking about western or northern NB, you're talking about six hours.

There's no way around it, Halifax is located on the ocean bound coast of a remote peninsula, geographically removed from a large part of the Atlantic region. It speaks to a certain amount of civic hubris amongst denizens of Halifax to call it "central" to the region.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Central to the population of NS, yes (especially since half the population of NS lives in greater Halifax).

Central to the population of the Maritimes as a whole - hell no.

Half of the population of the Maritimes is in NS though (and 2/3 of that is within about an hour of where the stadium in Halifax would be). So it's not really mathematically possible for Halifax to be central for NS and then nowhere near central for the Maritimes as a whole. I wouldn't be surprised if the population centroid for the Maritimes were in, say, the Minas Basin. If you constrained it to be somewhere with road access it would probably end up someplace like Truro along NS highway 102, a 40 minute drive from one of the proposed Halifax stadium sites. That is what I mean by "fairly central"; much more central than someplace like Yarmouth.

Beyond that if you look at things like disposable income instead of just population Halifax is going to stand out even more. Employment income in the Halifax CMA is pretty close to that of all of New Brunswick. That is just a statistic, not civic hubris. In the same way, there are Canadian cities which are more populated than all of the Maritimes and those ones have already had CFL teams for a long time.

[Oilkountry]

Originally Posted by someone123

Half of the population of the Maritimes is in NS though (and 2/3 of that is within about an hour of where the stadium in Halifax would be). So it's not really mathematically possible for Halifax to be central for NS and then nowhere near central for the Maritimes as a whole. I wouldn't be surprised if the population centroid for the Maritimes were in, say, the Minas Basin. If you constrained it to be somewhere with road access it would probably end up someplace like Truro along NS highway 102, a 40 minute drive from one of the proposed Halifax stadium sites.

Beyond that if you look at things like disposable income instead of just population Halifax is going to stand out even more. Employment income in the Halifax CMA is pretty close to that of all of New Brunswick. That is just a statistic, not civic hubris. In the same way, there are Canadian cities which are more populated than all of the Maritimes and those ones have already had CFL teams for a long time.

It's Halifax or bust. Nova Scotia alone has the population to support the team. (equal to manitoba,sask) Putting it literally anywhere else in the maritimes would be a mistake

[Oilkountry]

I think the CFL could look like this

West
-Vancouver lions
-Victoria ______s
-bombers
-Riders
-Eskimos
-Stamps

East
-Argos
-Quebec City _______'s
-Atlantic Schooners
-Redblacks
-Ticats
-Als

-Quebec is a given. Right population, No pro sports in town, Natural rivalry with the Als, But Montreal may step in as they look at them as provincial territory

-Victoria Is an interesting one. Gives the lions a provincial rival which they currently lack a rival period but like quebec city the Lions may look at the island as territory, 750K among the island which puts them on par with ottawa(ish) and winnipeg(ish). However the greater victoria area only sits around 350K which is 100K more than Regina. Also if you can captivate that Island pride the same way the riders have with the province and no doubt the schooners will with the maritimes You could very well fill a 24k stadium. (Also no other pro sports on the island)

-Halifax is another no brainier to me. Sell it as Atlantic canadas team. Hold your preseason games in moncton, also an annual regular season game on labour day weekend or something. The province alone could support it but if you can generate the same fandom the riders have where they are will to travel a few hours, A 25,000 seater may not cut it because you now are 2.3 million strong.

-I believe the CFL wants to keep Mississauga in their back pocket for an Argos plan B if things at BMO continue over the next 5-6 season the ownership may want a resolution

-Their is other markets in Ontario that may see some interest one day.

-Southern expansion is another option

[FFX-ME]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

I think the CFL could look like this

-Victoria Is an interesting one. Gives BC a rival which they currently lack, 750K among the island which puts them on par with ottawa(ish) and winnipeg(ish)....

Ottawa is closer to twice that size...

[Dalreg]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

It's Halifax or bust. Nova Scotia alone has the population to support the team. (equal to manitoba,sask) Putting it literally anywhere else in the maritimes would be a mistake

Not to nit pick but, Nova Scotia at 950,000 is a hell of a lot lower than Manitoba at 1,300,000 and still lots lower than Saskatchewan at 1,150,000.

New Brunswick at 750,000 by your thinking would be equal to Nova Scotia and thus capable of supporting a team.

[Oilkountry]

Originally Posted by FFX-ME

Ottawa is closer to twice that size...

metro yes

Originally Posted by Dalreg

Not to nit pick but, Nova Scotia at 950,000 is a hell of a lot lower than Manitoba at 1,300,000 and still lots lower than Saskatchewan at 1,150,000.

New Brunswick at 750,000 by your thinking would be equal to Nova Scotia and thus capable of supporting a team.

I meant Winnipeg not the province, bad wording.

[Dalreg]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

metro yes

Well you compare all of Vancouver Island to what the city population of Ottawa and Winnipeg?

You going to compare, how about apples to apples.

Victoria vs Ottawa vs Winnipeg, metro or city. Keep the numbers consistent.....

[Oilkountry]

Originally Posted by Dalreg

Well you compare all of Vancouver Island to what the city population of Ottawa and Winnipeg?

You going to compare, how about apples to apples.

Victoria vs Ottawa vs Winnipeg, metro or city. Keep the numbers consistent.....

That's why I said it was interesting. You've got a city bigger than Regina with an island population smaller than sask so you have things working for and against you.

I'm pointing out that markets work in both situations. bombers are successful with most of it's population in 1 city.

Riders are successful with it's population spread out

Victoria is a hybrid of the 2 on a smaller scale but you are talking about a 25,000 seater instead of a 33,000 seater

Some teams have a city pride (Edmonton, calgary, ottawa,hamilton)and some have or would have a provincial or in this case territorial pride (Vancouver island,nova scotia, BC,sask) it's not as black and white as you make it out to be I see no problem with grouping in the entire island as a potential market the same way you would with the riders and all of Saskatchewan vs just victoria and regina