Edmonton Construction 13 (November 2015)

[CMD UW]

Originally Posted by Hallsy's Toupee

So what's Oxford doing in response - converting ECC retail space to parking, which is already proven to be oversupplied in the downtown core.

There is strong demand for heated/enclosed parking in the core. Believe me.

[240glt]

Originally Posted by Hallsy's Toupee

But with the new arena now open and ICE District coming along with all the new residential towers, office towers and hotel, ECC can be a big draw along with the rest of the downtown core. It's early yet, but during events at the arena there are already more people spending time downtown than before.

So what's Oxford doing in response - converting ECC retail space to parking, which is already proven to be oversupplied in the downtown core.

Meanwhile, just to deepen the sting, downtown malls in other cities have undertaken major impressive changes in the last few years (e.g. Ottawa's downtown Rideau Centre is converting lower level parking to retail, the precise opposite of what ECC is doing).

No offense, 240, but from my layman's perspective my impression is that Oxford is dropping the ball here. However, not being privy to Oxford's ultimate plans for ECC (I think you've hinted this is may be just phase 1 of an overhaul), I hope I am proven wrong here - nay, I want to be proven wrong.

As CMD noted, that premium parking is in very high demand.

I am sure there will be tertiary benefits to the mall by being so close to the arena and related development but the scale of those benefits are not known.

There are future plans for the complex but those depend on a lot of other things falling into place. Pension funds are typically pretty cautious about their investments and won't just throw five times more at a redevelopment when the potential for return is still a gamble

[Coldrsx]

Risk averse indeed.

Time to remind, advise, educate folks that Edmonton ain't your father's Edmonton.

Bring it on.

[Coldrsx]

Hugely important article. Had the pleasure hanging out there recently.

http://edmontonjournal.com/business/real...-a-fascinating-past-and-uncertain-future

[EdmTrekker]

Originally Posted by 240glt

The reality is that fashion retail is dying a slow painful death

The other reality is that ECC is just not the draw that the suburban malls are, for a wide variety of reasons. So people can prostheletize all they want but it's just background noise

In th meantime I know that many office workers and visitors will enjoy their new food court that will make their experience at ECC much better

A lunch hour is about the only time that mall is busy and now that it is totally out of sight and will be out of mind. Let's hope Katz Group develop North and build residential on retail.

[240glt]

The mall provides amenities to the two office towers attached to the complex that no other office tower in the city has, present or future, and draws many from all over the core during workdays. That in itself is the substantial benefit of the mall to the owners of the asset

I hope that Katz develops more amenities and residential north of the arena as well but I am doubtful that will happen in the medium term unless economic conditions change substantially, but we'll see

[CMD UW]

Originally Posted by 240glt

As CMD noted, that premium parking is in very high demand.

I am sure there will be tertiary benefits to the mall by being so close to the arena and related development but the scale of those benefits are not known.

There are future plans for the complex but those depend on a lot of other things falling into place. Pension funds are typically pretty cautious about their investments and won't just throw five times more at a redevelopment when the potential for return is still a gamble

One of the main reasons why Oxford wants to add more parking at ECC isn't to attract more retail traffic, but to make Oxford and TD towers more attractive to prospective/existing tenants. The lack of u/g parking with direct access to their towers has been an impediment when competing against other buildings such as Manulife, Commerce and the new towers coming online. This is one of the main reasons why one can't compare what Rideau Centre did to ECC - the contexts are quite different.

I think over time as the arena district gets going and the downtown population continues to increase that Oxford will look at unrolling a larger capital plan for ECC.

[240glt]

^ the east preferred will indeed be strictly for monthly parking, but the west I believe will still have hourly access.

The access issue is also why they installed the vestibule to the Centre Point Place building in the parkade and will be installing a main floor lobby where Atmosphere is now (unless that changed in the last while)

Access, parking and vertical circulation have always been a problem, unfortunately not easy problems to solve, but they're working on it

[EdmTrekker]

Originally Posted by CMD UW

One of the main reasons why Oxford wants to add more parking at ECC isn't to attract more retail traffic, but to make Oxford and TD towers more attractive to prospective/existing tenants. The lack of u/g parking with direct access to their towers has been an impediment when competing against other buildings such as Manulife, Commerce and the new towers coming online. This is one of the main reasons why one can't compare what Rideau Centre did to ECC - the contexts are quite different.

I think over time as the arena district gets going and the downtown population continues to increase that Oxford will look at unrolling a larger capital plan for ECC.

The argument CMD presents on repurposing the basements is solid and can't be refuted. Now if Oxford would reskin the towers and get on with improving the quality of the retail tenants all those tenants and folks living within a few miles would be pleased as punch.

[240glt]

Reskin the towers ? TD was done in '98 and Oxford Tower had new glazing and mullions done in 2007. Aside for a scheduled re-caulking of TD I don't think you'll see anything else happen for a long time

Now Centre Point is just begging to have the precast stripped off and clear full height glazing done down the north, east and south sides. I know it's been talked about but is probably not going to happen in the near term

One of the other main reasons for changing the basement levels to parking was to try and get everyone above grade and activate some chronically vacant spaces. I have every confidence that will happen

[Hallsy's Toupee]

Seems rather odd to replace Atmosphere with a lobby just for a relatively small office building.

Seeing that Centre Point is former Woodwords, why not just re-repurpose it into retail and food court space, and move the current Centre Point tenants into the remaining mall towers that are sitting half-empty? It would make more sense, but that's just me!

[240glt]

^. You need to check those occupancy rates there SDM, no idea where you got that impression but you're quite a ways off the mark

Centre Point is smaller but is still 120,000 sf of leasable area on the 4th and 5th levels.

[Hallsy's Toupee]

^^ I thought you guys said that the mall office buildings had trouble attracting and retaining tenants. But with the new towers coming up, I would imagine they will be affected by the cross-yegdt office shuffling.

[240glt]

^ no, I don't believe anyone said that

[Hallsy's Toupee]

Chris D's comment in post #4910 kinda implied as such. Sorry for the misinterpretation.

[240glt]

^ i think that CMD was saying that the lack of attached preferred parking was an issue at the complex and that is correct, and is being rectified with the expansion of the east concourse parkade. All buildings, even the new ones have their pros and cons.

[Hallsy's Toupee]

http://edmontonjournal.com/news/local-ne...s-province-pulls-staff-from-the-downtown

The provincial government will be moving 450 of its employees from their current offices on newly refurbished Capital Boulevard — and at least half of those employees will be relocated outside of downtown.

The decision, which will result in 130,000 square feet being added to Edmonton’s growing downtown vacancy problem, is frustrating some commercial landlords.

“We’ve just got some vibrancy here,” said Percy Woods, president of the Edmonton Building Owners and Managers Association, referring to the new uptick in downtown’s vibe.

“We’re just getting things going and the government says we’re gone,” he said, noting a vibrant downtown benefits all parts of a city and boosts its global image. “Government should be downtown to support the vibrancy of downtown.”

The vacancy rate in Edmonton’s office towers is now at 13 per cent and is expected to climb as new towers are completed in the midst of the struggling economy.

Infrastructure Minister Brian Mason said the decision to pull out of the Centre West building is part of a long-term effort to rationalize the use of office space by consolidating staff into other leased and owned spaces as each lease comes up for renewal.

Half of the 450 employees will move to the Neil Crawford Centre, located near 113 Street and Belgravia Road. The other half will move to buildings near the legislature downtown, he said.

Mason said his first order of business is not downtown vibrancy, but ensuring that provincial employees are in good work spaces, and managing lease costs. “There’s no attempt to abandon the downtown of Edmonton.”

[canucklehead2]

— but it makes sense... Kinda a Catch 22 for the the gov't... Hope there's still some movement from others wanting to relocate to the centre because while there's nothing wrong with suburban office life, nothing beats the able to walk 2 blocks to literally 50-60 places to eat at lunch...

[CMD UW]

Originally Posted by Hallsy's Toupee

http://edmontonjournal.com/news/local-ne...s-province-pulls-staff-from-the-downtown

I think this article is a waste of space. The Province is making these changes for operational efficiencies, which should be its focus. Not only that but half of the staff that are moving are staying downtown. Anyways, the article fails to mention how much space the Provincial government occupies in our downtown as is, which is a significant amount.

[noodlenoodle]

Originally Posted by CMD UW

I'm waiting for your cheque so we can change the stucco to brick or whatever.