Tsawwassen First Nation Updates

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by jhausner

For the selection though I was fairly impressed with the lineup. Let's face it most malls are 90% clothes and shoes it seems and this is really no different. Also they target women which unfortunately probably makes up 5% of the people on these forums thus why you have a bunch of men on here complaining about a mall when shopping malls are really not targeting them. But they have a fair assortment of other things from a kids toy store, to a furniture store, and several specialty stores that did keep my interest.

I don't think this mall is going to be a huge draw for people downtown but it is definitely a change for the South of Fraser area. Fairly certain this mall can compete for selection with Guildford mall. Yes Guildford has many more stores and some alternate selection items (T.Mills has no electronics stores for example like an Apple store, EBGames, or Source) but for a lot of people in South Surrey or Delta, this mall would negate the need to go to Guildford or most other malls.

...

7. Final impressions, I think when you add in the Commons area which is absolutely obscenly large + this mall, you're going to get a very stead clientel going to this mall from all over the area. I actually think this is far more important for South of Fraser than anywhere else in Metro Vancouver.

There is just no need for anyone North of Fraser to drive out to this mall but I don't think that's the point. 50% of the region's population lives on the other side of the river and quite frankly it SUCKS ASS to cross the Fraser if you don't have to and will only get worse when the GMB is under construction at the same time as the Patullo and the Alex Fraser Bridge is an absolute parking lot as they construct proper interchanges at the SFPR.

So for the 1500 per month people who move SoF every month between Delta, Surrey, and Langley, this mall is not a bad thing nor will go unused. I also think it will help Delta spark some development drive in South Delta between Ladner and Tsawwassen. Metro Vancouver has on the books for Tsawwassen alone to grow to 40,000 people in the next 25 years, which commercial space like this and commons can help bring people to live and work.

...

I don't think it will be a huge draw for people downtown though as Metrotown is just a skytrain away. Wasn't built for those of you downtown though quite frankly and the draw of population isn't going to make or break. Remember there is about 200,000 out of 2.5 million downtown + False Creek. For those doing math every person living downtown and around downtown Vancouver make up 8% of the region's population. You're not actually that important to business South of Fraser contrary to popular belief.

[SpongeG]

my friend lives in marpole and getting to the mall was less than 20 minutes driving and the traffic was horrible at the tunnel, much easier than trying to get to metrotown from his area

[Klazu]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

my friend lives in marpole and getting to the mall was less than 20 minutes driving and the traffic was horrible at the tunnel, much easier than trying to get to metrotown from his area

I have to doubt this story a bit, as even Google says it's 23.6 kilometers and 18 minutes from Marpole to Tsawwassen Mills without any traffic. If your friend's story is true, there was absolutely no traffic at the tunnel.

Metrotown is 11.5 kilometers away and the same 18 minutes without traffic. So pretty much apples to apples.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Klazu

I was last weekend in Seattle and was staying in Renton near the huge mall there (biggest in Seattle, I think). I just find these American mega malls and outlets so off-putting and ugly. It felt almost like a culture shock as we don't (thankfully) have the same fully car-dependent malls here in Vancouver. Yes, we have smaller malls with lots of parking, but nothing like the ones in America. Tsawwessen Mills is definitely a book example of an American outlet mall and I find it disgusting.

Of course I am far from the average shopper or even their target audience, as I hate shopping and do it mostly online...

I'm with you on your first point: Ameican-style malls are indeed off-putting. That's why so many of them die off eventually.

However, I do differ from you regarding shopping habits: I do both online and at physical shops.

[nickbeaulieu]

I drove down to this mall yesterday morning before it opened (just for a drive to get my kid to calm down) and it's ridiculous how big it is. But that being said, there are plenty of people nearby who will shop here, assuming it isn't a craphole of 2nd rate stores.

[GMasterAres]

Originally Posted by Klazu

I was last weekend in Seattle and was staying in Renton near the huge mall there (biggest in Seattle, I think). I just find these American mega malls and outlets so off-putting and ugly. It felt almost like a culture shock as we don't (thankfully) have the same fully car-dependent malls here in Vancouver. Yes, we have smaller malls with lots of parking, but nothing like the ones in America. Tsawwessen Mills is definitely a book example of an American outlet mall and I find it disgusting.

Of course I am far from the average shopper or even their target audience, as I hate shopping and do it mostly online...

I don't disagree with the look and have voiced my thoughts many pages ago about how they could have aesthetically made this mall better. That said, it is built now, and going over and over the same "UGLY LAWLZ" discussion to me felt just pointless. I think we all can agree it is not pretty, it is very American (or probably more accurately, non-Vancouver-like since these types of malls are in many other parts of Canada. I drove by one near Hamilton just last week for example).

But alas it is here like I said and not going anywhere.

[Dwils01]

The mall looks exactly the same as Vaughan Mills. There were some nice stores in there but really nothing that stood out for me from other malls I have visited.

[GMasterAres]

Originally Posted by Klazu

Not sure if this has been mentioned before, but I found this very interesting as there are similarities with Tsawwassen mall. St. Louis Mills opened in 2003 is similar mega-size outlet mall in steep decline. This recent video looks almost creepy.

Very interesting comments on Reddit about what went wrong and about outlet mall design in general!

Yeah, sounds a bit like Tsawwassen Mills, especially in terms of location, eh? Also this was interesting in my opinion...

It does and it doesn't.

1. The mall is actually "bent" at the center so you don't have any longer than 1000 foot straights. Aka the edges taper in a triangle and at the Food Court it bends twice. Unlike St. Louis which is effectively the same mall design layout wise but completely straight. They also did use sculptures and design elements to make it feel much less like you're walking 200km in a straight line.

So while it is big, the maximum straight distance is effectively no longer than Metrotown between Chapters and Sportcheck for example. A minor improvement I guess but as per your quoted sheet, apparently important.

2. While the mall _is_ surrounded by agriculture land currently it cannot entirely be argued that it is sitting on (a) a minor highway or (b) 1+ hour away from any sizeable population.

As has been mentioned before, with no traffic the mall is effectively 30-40 minutes drive from 1+ million people and the surrounding area is slated to increase in population substantially over the next 25 years. Also HWY17 is the a major corridor in our highway system and (a) not a far detour for those on HWY 99 and (b) a required highway for anyone going to/from the main Ferry terminals to Victoria or to Point Roberts.

3. The final item of note is that it is on an outer ring suburb, which is not accurate again for this mall. Many people like to think anything outside Vancouver is "WAY OVER THERE" on the edge of the city, but T.Mills in general due to geography is far more center suburb than edge. While granted the south is water, Tsawwassen, the first nations land, and Ladner are going to grow over the years, and to the west you have Vancouver + Richmond, and east North Delta + Surrey which are 2 major population areas sandwiching this mall.

I think the notion of being on the edge would hold true if this were built say out in Chilliwack where the notion of that area growing any massive population in the next 30 years is crazy.

So while there are parallels, I think there are enough subtle differences that would allow this mall to do ok.

That said, as I've mentioned before only time will tell.

While all above likely has contributed to the failure of the mall, this is likely the final reason. I feel like Tsawwassen won't have this kind of problem which sounds very specific to a city like St. Louis...

Reddit thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/StLouis/comments/51evgi/if_you_havent_been_there_in_a_while_this_is_the/

And clearly I agree with you above.

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by Klazu

I have to doubt this story a bit, as even Google says it's 23.6 kilometers and 18 minutes from Marpole to Tsawwassen Mills without any traffic. If your friend's story is true, there was absolutely no traffic at the tunnel.

Metrotown is 11.5 kilometers away and the same 18 minutes without traffic. So pretty much apples to apples.

Google also assumes you drive the speed limit. It's easier to speed down freeways than it is down the roads to get to Metrotown.

[officedweller]

I know downtown people who see movies at Riverport because of the IMAX screen - not much different really (5-10 min difference?)

[s211]

Finally got to check the mall out on Sunday. Word is that they're about 70% leased right now. The temp stores were certainly temp looking. I have to say that Saks was probably the biggest letdown by far. I felt I was in a Bay outlet store. The Rosen store was far better for men's fashion, in comparison, but that's faint praise.

[towerseeker101]

Originally Posted by s211

I have to say that Saks was probably the biggest letdown by far. I felt I was in a Bay outlet store. The Rosen store was far better for men's fashion, in comparison, but that's faint praise.

Saks is owned by Hudson's Bay after all. I'm going to make a bold prediction that any new Canadian Saks location will essential operate as a "Bay outlet" where they can get rid of extra/old stock.

[NewfBC]

Originally Posted by towerseeker101

Saks is owned by Hudson's Bay after all. I'm going to make a bold prediction that any new Canadian Saks location will essential operate as a "Bay outlet" where they can get rid of extra/old stock.

Really? Putting the Bay above Saks Canada is like putting Sears above Nordstrom.
http://www.saksfifthavenue.com/main/StoreLanding.jsp?store=canada_en

https://www.thestar.com/business/2016/02/16/torontos-saks-fifth-avenue--its-almost-ready.html


Ron.

[s211]

Originally Posted by towerseeker101

Saks is owned by Hudson's Bay after all. I'm going to make a bold prediction that any new Canadian Saks location will essential operate as a "Bay outlet" where they can get rid of extra/old stock.

Yup. Knew that, which makes the Bay comparison easier.

The Saks Off Fifth was nothing short of a really messy Winners.

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by Klazu

I have to doubt this story a bit, as even Google says it's 23.6 kilometers and 18 minutes from Marpole to Tsawwassen Mills without any traffic. If your friend's story is true, there was absolutely no traffic at the tunnel.

Metrotown is 11.5 kilometers away and the same 18 minutes without traffic. So pretty much apples to apples.

i was driving, it was 3 pm

i know from driving to my friends to metrotown seems to take forever cause of the stopping at red lights, we usually take cambie street to 41st on to kingsway to get to metrotown from his place, marine drive makes me nuts

[SpongeG]

I was surprised by SAKS, the saks outlet i went to in California, near San Francisco was awful, really small about the size of the harry rosen, it had things like Dockers, calvin klein underwear, shoes were boring, nothing that high end like we were expecting there.

The saks at the mills was pretty good i thought, they had some pretty decent brands and they had a good sale clearance that was an extra 30% off, my friend got some nudie jeans for under $30, they are usually well over $100. They had a lot of moose knuckles jackets in the $300 range. Mens shoe selection was pretty good for an outlet.

For women they had a number of prada bags, dolce & gabanna, versace, fendi, most were discounted in the $2500 range lol

maybe we got there early enough when the selection was still good

I saw some moncler sneakers at harry rosen for $499 and they had the same pair but a different colour at marshalls for $399. The marshalls also had some Alexander McQueen stuff for men and a few fendi bags for women well over $1000.

[officedweller]

The Tsawwassen Mills Saks Off 5th is a smaller version of the Bridgeport Village location just south of Portland Ore., also a fairly recent store and similar to a new store near South Coast Plaza, Costa Mesa, CA.

The crappiest Saks Off 5th I've seen is at the Las Vegas Outlet Mall (the one at the south end of the strip, not the Premium Outlet in the north)
- BUT that's the one where I've bought the most stuff - racks and racks of clearance stuff.

Saks Off 5th does have higher prices than other off-price retailers.
You have to buy stuff with their e-mail offers (40% off suits, buy one get one free, etc.) - but the e-mail offers are only valid in the USA.
The fine print says "not valid at Saks Off 5th Canada stores".
For me, I'll wait until I next go to the States.

[retro_orange]

South Delta businesses struggle in wake of megamall opening


Store owner says sales down 50% compared to this time last year

By Jesse Johnston, CBC News Posted: Oct 20, 2016 2:02 PM PT Last Updated: Oct 20, 2016 2:15 PM PT

Several hundred people lined up for the opening of the new megamall near the BC Ferries terminal. (Farrah Merali/CBC)





Many small business owners in south Delta say they've been struggling since the new Tsawwassen Mills megamall opened earlier this month.
"Just glancing at my books, I'm noticing that we're definitely at about 50 per cent of what we were last year," said Helene Careau, who runs the Messy Dresser boutique shop and salon in Ladner Village.
"There is a lot less pedestrian traffic. There definitely seems to be an exodus of people that aren't here."
Just down the street at Fancy This Gifts, owner Joni Light says she's also seen a sharp decline in customers.
"I'm not going to say it's totally the mall because the weather has been lousy and there was a long weekend involved," she said.
"We're feeling it, though. I would say on an average morning, from 10 o'clock to one o'clock, you would easily have 30 people come through here. I think I've had five today."
New customers?

Tsawwassen Centre Mall, which is celebrating its 45th anniversary this year, is a two-minute drive from Tsawwassen Mills.
The shopping plazas couldn't be more different.
Tsawwassen Mills is massive, bright and filled with international chains like Tommy Hilfiger and Saks Off 5th.
Tsawwassen Centre is tiny and consists of small, family-run businesses like a barber shop and jewelry store.
Luke Voden, whose family has run the Centre Stage gift shop at Tsawwassen Centre for decades, says being in a quiet location has its advantages.
"One customer from North Delta came out to see the new mall and saw the huge lineups, so she ended up coming here and coming to our store and spending some money here," he said.
"I just talked to a lady who said she went down there and walked around but she found it way too busy."
Light says she was offered a space at Tsawwassen Mills but she declined.
"I'm in a lease and their rent was almost three times higher than I'm paying," she said.
"Plus, a little store like this could never compete with those big box stores. We're just little, tiny, independent businesses around here. We're not corporate."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-co...sses-struggle-tsawwassen-mills-1.3813894

[connect2source]

I think it's little premature to calculate loss of sales given the mall is barely 3 weeks old.

They'd need at least a full quarter or two to correctly assess. The mall is in the 'hype' stage at the moment but it will quickly die down and locals will return, at least in part, to their old shopping habits. T Mills is meant to be a regional draw, it does little to complete with locally focused and owned business that provide different shops and services to local residents.

[NewfBC]

Sturgeon in Tsawwassen Mills store aquarium dies
http://bc.ctvnews.ca/sturgeon-in-tsawwassen-mills-store-aquarium-dies-1.3126290

Sad

Ron.