Stadiums and Arenas of Canada part 2

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Nathan

TD Place Stadium was completely reno'ed/rebuilt prior to the WWC in 2015, so...

[elly63]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Ah yes, Maracana..

BC Place and Skydome aren't going to be expanded beyond their current limits and don't really need that much renovating...so my question would be: how much money would you be willing to pump into the Big O? And would that be better off than simply building a new stadium?

That article spoke about Brazilian construction practices or lack of and not the age of the structure which is what the OP was referring to.

The problem with the Big O is that it is also a recognized part of the city's skyline and historical (agree or not) landscape. Also there is no need for another 30k plus stadium in Montreal so building new isn't really realistic unless it is intended as a replacement for Molson and unless that structure is crumbling that seems unlikely. One of the renos for Molson was to reinforce the structure so it should be good for a while.

[EpicPonyTime]

Regarding Olympic, the only way Montreal will play host to some games in a World Cup is if it's renovated. They aren't building a new stadium so they can have two white elephants. The wisest course of action for a bid would be to renovate Olympic and have it as the host of the Final. Especially now that Toronto's NFL dreams are dead there is no reason to build a new stadium there when you would still have to renovate Olympic anyway.

Originally Posted by wacko

I think Canada should only submit a bid for the 2026 World Cup under the following conditions: (1) existing stadiums will be used for the most part, and (2) existing artificial turf will be used, gridiron lines and all. I'd be interested to see if FIFA gets desperate enough to accept those conditions. Otherwise, they can pick some other country which better meets their absurd standards. (And I say that as someone who plays recreational soccer.)

Like America?

Canada can definitely submit a bid for the World Cup but I don't see how it would be possible to win. A lot of our stadiums fall under the "not glamourous but functional" category which I don't feel like FIFA wants. It's hard to see THF, for example, hosting a game where 50% of the seats will be huge temporary bleachers at each endzone.

The only way I see Canada winning is if the US and Mexico both decide not to bid. Even then, I don't know if we could. If Colombia managed to get the peace treaty in effect by the time the bids are due I wouldn't put it past FIFA to give it to them; the feel good press would love it.

[Ham Wallet]

Originally Posted by elly63

TD Place was built the year the Chicago cubs last won the World Series. Fact.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Ham Wallet

TD Place was built the year the Chicago cubs last won the World Series. Fact.

Tell me which meaningful parts of the structure are 100 years old. The subsoil 20 feat underneath the artificial turf? Come back if and when you can add something to this discussion.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by EpicPonyTime

Regarding Olympic, the only way Montreal will play host to some games in a World Cup is if it's renovated. They aren't building a new stadium so they can have two white elephants. The wisest course of action for a bid would be to renovate Olympic and have it as the host of the Final. Especially now that Toronto's NFL dreams are dead there is no reason to build a new stadium there when you would still have to renovate Olympic anyway.

Agree

Originally Posted by EpicPonyTime

Canada can definitely submit a bid for the World Cup but I don't see how it would be possible to win. A lot of our stadiums fall under the "not glamourous but functional" category which I don't feel like FIFA wants.

The only way I see Canada winning is if the US and Mexico both decide not to bid. Even then, I don't know if we could. If Colombia managed to get the peace treaty in effect by the time the bids are due I wouldn't put it past FIFA to give it to them; the feel good press would love it.

FIFA is under a lot of pressure to become more transparent (ie less corrupt) a Canada bid is a perfect solution. I just read (in the article above) about the Fifa secretary general.

"In four days in changing hotels, we saved £99,500. The rooms are at the same level and it is still a five-star hotel for Council members. "No more limousines are available - we are carpooling. The mood for that was positive and it tightens links.

FIFA is looking for a "safe" event. Canada can provide that, besides when do people actually see the white elephants, on one overhead shot before the games start. Why the need for excess?

Take this with a grain of salt

FIFA - Who Will Host The 2026 World Cup? Betting Odds

Odds according to the website
Canada 4/1
USA 8/1
Mexico 13/2
Columbia 13/2

UEFA not eligible except as backup
England 12/1

[Ham Wallet]

Originally Posted by elly63

Tell me which meaningful parts of the structure are 100 years old. The subsoil 20 feat underneath the artificial turf? Come back if and when you can add something to this discussion.

Relax bud you're a little uptight

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Ham Wallet

Relax bud you're a little uptight

Stop posting crap and you won't hear from me.

[Ham Wallet]

Originally Posted by elly63

Stop posting crap and you won't hear from me.

Suggest you take your internet discussions a little less seriously. Maybe take a walk or find someone to have a real life conversation with.

[Dr Awesomesauce]

Please, God, no.

No World Cup.

No (Summer) Olympics.

The mere thought of a First World nation even entertaining the thought of getting into bed with governing bodies such as these is stunning to me.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Ham Wallet

Suggest you take your internet discussions a little less seriously.

Suggest you take your Internet discussions a little more seriously and stop trolling and posting disinformation, especially after three posts.

Here is what was left of your supposed 108 year old stadium except the part left is from 1967 not 108 years ago as you seem to think.

"The first permanent grandstand was built on the north side of the playing field in 1908. It was demolished in 1967 to build a new set of stands with an integrated hockey arena underneath, then known as the Ottawa Civic Centre.

[FrankieFlowerpot]

Originally Posted by wacko

I think Canada should only submit a bid for the 2026 World Cup under the following conditions: (1) existing stadiums will be used for the most part, and (2) existing artificial turf will be used, gridiron lines and all I'd be interested to see if FIFA gets desperate enough to accept those conditions. Otherwise, they can pick some other country which better meets their absurd standards. (And I say that as someone who plays recreational soccer.)

You're really taking your name literally,eh?

[WhipperSnapper]

Hello nurse

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by elly63

That article spoke about Brazilian construction practices or lack of and not the age of the structure which is what the OP was referring to.

Indeed, and construction practices in Quebec have been bulletproof in recent memory.

Originally Posted by elly63

The problem with the Big O is that it is also a recognized part of the city's skyline and historical (agree or not) landscape. Also there is no need for another 30k plus stadium in Montreal so building new isn't really realistic unless it is intended as a replacement for Molson and unless that structure is crumbling that seems unlikely. One of the renos for Molson was to reinforce the structure so it should be good for a while.

The MLB's basically stated that the only way the Expos return is with a new stadium and that new stadium wouldn't be hosting any World Cup or CFL matches. So, which does Montreal want more: Expos or World Cup/CFL venue?

Again, how much money would be needed to renovate Big O for World Cup use?
Would a World Cup bid in Canada be taken seriously without Montreal?
Where does Canada find a 50K+ stadium without Big O in contention?

Your comments about FIFA trying to clear its name and get a good host in check are spot on. Canada's the perfect hosting country for an International organization seeking a major credibility boost.

Originally Posted by Dr Awesomesauce

The mere thought of a First World nation even entertaining the thought of getting into bed with governing bodies such as these is stunning to me.

Canada hosted a major FIFA event just last year called the Women's World Cup.

[Dr Awesomesauce]

^True. I believe Canada won the bidding by default, incidentally. Women's football is a very different animal, after all.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Canada hosted a major FIFA event just last year called the Women's World Cup.

On our terms... i.e., existing venues with existing surfaces, give or take Edmonton. I'd extend the same offer to FIFA for the men's World Cup.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by esquire

On our terms... i.e., existing venues with existing surfaces, give or take Edmonton. I'd extend the same offer to FIFA for the men's World Cup.

Not sure what you mean give or take Edmonton.

[EpicPonyTime]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Again, how much money would be needed to renovate Big O for World Cup use?
Would a World Cup bid in Canada be taken seriously without Montreal?
Where does Canada find a 50K+ stadium without Big O in contention?

It's not so much can it be taken seriously without Montreal as can it even happen without Quebec? There is no way a World Cup bid would fly if excluded French Canada and Montreal is the only real choice (Quebec City probably wouldn't get a World Cup game over Montreal).

I have no clue how much it would cost, but I imagine that aside from the roof they would have to pretty much modernize everything (starting with those seats). I imagine they'd also look at taking out the scoreboard in order to allow the stadium to seat 70,000 again. It would be very expensive for little gain, but obviously a reno would allow the Allouettes and Impact to play there more frequently to help add a little more activity.

Originally Posted by esquire

On our terms... i.e., existing venues with existing surfaces, give or take Edmonton. I'd extend the same offer to FIFA for the men's World Cup.

The men's game is a completely different beast. Even the women were saying that the men would never have to play on artificial turf.

[elly63]

The Montreal reno is a tough one. It would have to seat approx 70k for the WC but what about its legacy.

Even if they could configure it down to 35k post WC that`s still too big for the Impact or the Als both of which have no incentive to relocate there anyway. Maybe the Als because they are at the mercy of McGill and I believe they practice elsewhere but they seem to get along ok.

The stadium is now closed for much of the winter because of the roof so they are missing out on a lot of events. Perhaps it could find use as an NTC for Quebec athletes.

The cost is likely to be 600mil plus to replace the roof and everything else but the problem is to justify the use after the WC. You don`t seem to hear much about BC Place and the money that was spent there but then again they have two full time tenants.

A tough decision all around, maybe the solution would be a conversion to a fieldhouse like Calgary is/was contemplating.

[EpicPonyTime]

Originally Posted by elly63

The Montreal reno is a tough one. It would have to seat approx 70k for the WC but what about its legacy.

Even if they could configure it down to 35k post WC that`s still too big for the Impact or the Als both of which have no incentive to relocate there anyway. Maybe the Als because they are at the mercy of McGill and I believe they practice elsewhere but they seem to get along ok.

The stadium is now closed for much of the winter because of the roof so they are missing out on a lot of events. Perhaps it could find use as an NTC for Quebec athletes.

The cost is likely to be 600mil plus to replace the roof and everything else but the problem is to justify the use after the WC. You don`t seem to hear much about BC Place and the money that was spent there but then again they have two full time tenants.

A tough decision all around, maybe the solution would be a conversion to a fieldhouse like Calgary is/was contemplating.

That's ultimately the big problem: no matter what you do or how much money you put into it there's not going to be a permanent tenant at Olympic, probably ever. The best that they can hope for is to go back to hosting Als playoff games and major soccer games (it would have to be the new home for the national teams), which isn't optimal but it is at least something. FIFA requires stadiums to have some type of fan area nearby so perhaps that would help spur some activity out in the area as well, which might make games out there more tolerable for fans.

The strange thing about Olympic is that despite its problems, it makes a profit every year. The Park is pretty succesful, the Tower is popular and the Stadium has the best aquatic facilities in Canada. I definitely think they can find a way to justify upgrades to the stadium, whether it is making it more attractive to events/competitions, improving its abilities to host conventions or finding a way to offer reduced seating for events without sacrificing atmosphere.

It sounds tough, but like I said in a previous post the alternative to a good reno of Olympic is to build a new stadium in Toronto. That would cost more and will be used just as frequently (if not less as it'd be competing with Rogers Centre for large events). Instead of spending a billion in Toronto and a few hundred million in Montreal, spend $600 million in Montreal and use the rest to build adequate stadiums in Halifax and Calgary.