The Metro Vancouver Retail Thread

[jollyburger]

Sure strong demand for limited spaces along Alberni. How are you going to apply that to the rest of the city?

[Tetsuo]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Sure strong demand for limited spaces along Alberni. How are you going to apply that to the rest of the city?

Rename other streets Alberni

[SFUVancouver]

Originally Posted by Tetsuo

Rename other streets Alberni

Worked for "Yaletown comes to Surrey" to sell cheap condos.

[connect2source]

Maybe this will induce the levelling of most of the 1100 block of Robson which is long overdue for redevelopment. I don't see many takers for the dilapidated and dated retail spaces on most of the stretch especially the London Drugs complex at the west end of the bock.

[Tetsuo]

London Drugs won't budge until they can build glass frontage floor to ceiling due to city restrictions

[Graham_Yvr]

Originally Posted by Tetsuo

London Drugs won't budge until they can build glass frontage floor to ceiling due to city restrictions

Isn't that the opposite? London Drugs doesn't want floor to ceiling glass frontage due to inherent merchandizing limitations, and the city is insisting that new retail is all window. No?

[Vin]

Originally Posted by jlousa

How expected, let's move the goal posts when the results don't fit your pre conceived expectations. Hows this for a new proposal right on Robson. Telus gardens was supposed to have 2nd floor retail but couldn't find commercial tenants and had to convert to office instead. Guess that huge demand for retail space isn't quite as strong as some think.

Even if the second floor of Telus was used for retail, it would be snapped up quite soon. Changing it to retail does not mean they couldn't find a good tenant. Currently, I see all retail units accounted for already. However, what I'm referring to isn't isolated-type retail mixed development like Telus Garden, but more of a larger convergence of shops and anchors in a multi-storeyed shopping centre, with stores interconnected under one roof, and other uses on top the podium building.

When it comes to retail, it's not a one-glove-fits-all kind of situation here. Some businesses are designed for failure, some are done as winners.

I never changed any goal-posts, and have always been quite adamant about what I've been saying. Remember when you said downtown Pacific Centre (mall) vacancies reflect on-grade store vacancies? Well, guess what, they are now all accounted for. Malls are still in big demand, despite all the naysayers out there.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Graham_Yvr

Isn't that the opposite? London Drugs doesn't want floor to ceiling glass frontage due to inherent merchandizing limitations, and the city is insisting that new retail is all window. No?

Correct.
LD wants walls lined with shelves. City wants glass.
One solution would be to put LD on the second level - just look at the 2nd level of the proposed MEC on West 2nd, which just has clerestory windows.

Originally Posted by jlousa

How expected, let's move the goal posts when the results don't fit your pre conceived expectations. Hows this for a new proposal right on Robson. Telus gardens was supposed to have 2nd floor retail but couldn't find commercial tenants and had to convert to office instead. Guess that huge demand for retail space isn't quite as strong as some think.

And the other underlying assumption - that residential population will support retail - is also questionable.
Yaletown is a prime example.
Retail clothing businesses have a difficult time there and typically close down.
There are salons and spas - but the majority of retail tenants are restaurants who only cater to the evening dinner crowd.
i.e. The Yaletown Keg isn't even open during the day on weekends.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by officedweller

And the other underlying assumption - that residential population will support retail - is also questionable.
Yaletown is a prime example.
Retail clothing businesses have a difficult time there and typically close down.
There are salons and spas - but the majority of retail tenants are restaurants who only cater to the evening dinner crowd.
i.e. The Yaletown Keg isn't even open during the day on weekends.

Again you are citing another out-dated retail model. Yaletown shops are too cut off from central shopping districts to be successful. Also, local residents want big-box or other anchor stores, and not to shop at over-priced small-scale boutiques. In Yaletown, especially by the skytrain station, if earlier planners were to incorporate bigger retail podiums for retailers such as Winners, Uniqlo, London Drugs, Canadian Tire, along major roads like Pacific Boulevard, etc, other supporting businesses in the converted warehouse heritage areas would sprout like flowers in springtime. There would be increased foot traffic as even people from other areas would skytrain over to shop and dine. Wrong initial planning with limited foresight - retail business withers.

I find myself having to go to Robson/Granville or Cambie/Broadway areas for a lot of my shopping needs as Yaletown itself lacks many retail services.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by connect2source

Maybe this will induce the levelling of most of the 1100 block of Robson which is long overdue for redevelopment. I don't see many takers for the dilapidated and dated retail spaces on most of the stretch especially the London Drugs complex at the west end of the bock.

Need the City to give the go ahead for higher density development along the entire stretch. Otherwise, nothing will ever change.

[jlousa]

Funny now Yaletown is too cut off from the central shopping district yet you've previously stated that it would've worked at Olympic Village. Give it up, you have even less market knowledge then city planners do. Developers aren't building more retail as there is a current glut. We aren't seeing much demand for anyone to glob up the empty Target space. Given how much development is going up at Metrotown and how great the mall factor is you'd figure those anchor tenants would be chomping at the bit to get in there. They aren't because they've done their research. What there is a huge demand for is premium boutique retail ala Alberni/Robson. The problem with that is you can't build more, the demand is high due to the limited supply. Expand the supply and it's quite probable you bring down the demand and trash the lease rates across the board.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by jlousa

Funny now Yaletown is too cut off from the central shopping district yet you've previously stated that it would've worked at Olympic Village. Give it up, you have even less market knowledge then city planners do. Developers aren't building more retail as there is a current glut. We aren't seeing much demand for anyone to glob up the empty Target space. Given how much development is going up at Metrotown and how great the mall factor is you'd figure those anchor tenants would be chomping at the bit to get in there. They aren't because they've done their research. What there is a huge demand for is premium boutique retail ala Alberni/Robson. The problem with that is you can't build more, the demand is high due to the limited supply. Expand the supply and it's quite probable you bring down the demand and trash the lease rates across the board.

Like I said, OV needs retail anchors, creating its own node, so it won't be "cut off" anymore. For low-density street-level retail to work, it can't be cut off from other retail nodes: needs to have continuity, with multiple retail streets to form a retail node. Older cities like London and Paris work because of this. For areas like OV or Yaletown, there needs to be retail anchors for the street-level retail stores to work.

High-end boutiques on Alberni work because there isn't much of a supply, and it works because it is a continuation of Robson retail node. It also works because practically all the stores there are either new or fully renovated quality structures. I am very certain we can build more downtown, except zoning restrictions discourage developers to do so. The demand is definitely there.

Funny you think planners do a better job but yet we can all observe the closures. Yet malls in town centres are the ones succeeding. Target is but one store in Metro left unleased, and does not represent the entire retail scene. What about Target at Surrey Central?

[Klazu]

Anyone been to McArthurGlenn recently? Have they finally had more stores open? Last time was there in summer it still looked exactly the same as when it opened a year ago with lots of unoccupied retails spaces. It was also very quiet, although that might have been the day we were there...

[jlousa]

That's what you don't get. Developers do not want to build additional retail as the demand isn't there for it. They are forced to build it by the planning dept and those costs are added to the already pricey residential component. Concord offloaded pretty well all of their commercial requirements for nefc onto Henderson who got stuck having to build International Village to use up that requirement, Concord knew their wasn't any demand for it or they would've kept it themselves. Aspac did the same thing in Coal harbour and offloaded all the commercial requirements onto the remaining properties which are now Shaw Tower and Fairmont Pacrim and sold them relatively cheap to Westbank as they were burdened with the commercial requirement. Heck look at Oakridge, the proposal barely has the mall expanding even with the huge influx of residents, the owners know that demand is limited. But heck if you believe you know more then the experts then build some commercial, you can pick up commercial density relatively cheaply.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by jlousa

We aren't seeing much demand for anyone to glob up the empty Target space.

That had me scratching my head and wondering what you're smoking. From what I could find online there were six Targets in Metro Van. Three of them (Delta, Surrey and Coquitlam) became Walmart. Willowbrook is doing a big mall reno and part of that has Sport Chek and Toys R US moving into the former Target space.

That leaves two empty locations. Lansdowne, which seems to be in sad shape and is facing future land use changes, and Metrotown. If previous chatter on here was accurate then the mall wants to keep it as one big store instead of dividing it into two stores, which would go a long was to explaining why it's still empty.

[jlousa]

And do you know the sweetheart deals that Walmart got in order to take those spots? Trust me there was no line up of teneats trying to get at those spots. Landlords were desperate to get anyone in, otherwise they would risk losing their other teneats. Walmart made out like a bandit due to desperation.

[jollyburger]

And why would any big box retailer want to open in Yaletown when the majority of them are already opened a stop/bridge crossing away in Cambie?

[Conrad Yablonski]

Originally Posted by officedweller

.... The Yaletown Keg isn't even open during the day on weekends.

That's common among downtown operations ever tried to find quality Sushi for lunch on Saturday or Sunday?

[Conrad Yablonski]

Originally Posted by Klazu

Anyone been to McArthurGlenn recently? Have they finally had more stores open? Last time was there in summer it still looked exactly the same as when it opened a year ago with lots of unoccupied retails spaces. It was also very quiet, although that might have been the day we were there...

It's a ghost town always will be no matter the lies that management tells-lies I have seen repeated here ad nauseam by the usual suspects.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Conrad Yablonski

That's common among downtown operations ever tried to find quality Sushi for lunch on Saturday or Sunday?

All summer I looked down on the Keg's closed rooftop patio - sun beaming down on it at lunchtime.

For lunchtime sushi - price and speed (as well as quality) would be the determining factors for office workers downtown.
Any place that's slow gets scratched off the list pretty quickly.