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  #141  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2016, 10:58 PM
SkeggsEggs SkeggsEggs is offline
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Not sure if I missed it here but the Functional Design Plans are online now. Found towards the bottom: http://ottawa.ca/en/city-hall/public-consultations/transit/open-house-4-october-5-2016

On a quick glance I really like what they are planing to do east of Riverside. Hopefully it reduces the speeds in that area.
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  #142  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2016, 2:12 AM
TransitZilla TransitZilla is offline
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It doesn't look like they are planning to add signals at Heron & Data Centre... that is a big omission IMO... eastbound buses are often delayed turning left by westbound traffic. A bus-activated protected left turn signal would really reduce delays here.
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  #143  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2016, 2:58 AM
dodoburd dodoburd is offline
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In typical OC Transpo fashion, the stops are waaaaay too close together, they need to remove the minor streets or travel time will be painfully slow.
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  #144  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2016, 2:02 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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Originally Posted by dodoburd View Post
In typical OC Transpo fashion, the stops are waaaaay too close together, they need to remove the minor streets or travel time will be painfully slow.
How are they waaaaay too close?

What is the definition of "too close" and who decides?

Given that the Baseline BRT will also replace local service on that axis, the stops have to be closer together than regular Bus Crappid Transit a la Transitway.
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  #145  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2016, 2:58 PM
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Originally Posted by dodoburd View Post
In typical OC Transpo fashion, the stops are waaaaay too close together, they need to remove the minor streets or travel time will be painfully slow.
Give me a break. This has to serve as local transit on Baseline Road. We are not going to have stops 1 or 2 km apart. This defeats the whole purpose. And there cannot be express and local buses. That will never work with no place for buses to pass each other.

When I hear that we are speeding up service on average of 11 minutes, and buses will no longer be caught in traffic jams (when delays will be even longer), I applaud. We are achieving what is intended. Significantly faster and more reliable service.
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  #146  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2016, 4:39 PM
Beedok Beedok is offline
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
Give me a break. This has to serve as local transit on Baseline Road. We are not going to have stops 1 or 2 km apart. This defeats the whole purpose. And there cannot be express and local buses. That will never work with no place for buses to pass each other.

When I hear that we are speeding up service on average of 11 minutes, and buses will no longer be caught in traffic jams (when delays will be even longer), I applaud. We are achieving what is intended. Significantly faster and more reliable service.
Having taken the 118 quite a lot I do think there's 1 or 2 stops that could be removed from the plan to no serious negative effect. There wouldn't be a major positive effect either though I suppose.
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  #147  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2016, 6:57 PM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
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Having taken the 118 quite a lot I do think there's 1 or 2 stops that could be removed from the plan to no serious negative effect. There wouldn't be a major positive effect either though I suppose.
I believe the plans will reduce the number of stops compared to today, but I think the original poster was suggesting even fewer stops, making it very awkward to access transit in local neighbourhoods.
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  #148  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2016, 9:03 PM
Beedok Beedok is offline
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
I believe the plans will reduce the number of stops compared to today, but I think the original poster was suggesting even fewer stops, making it very awkward to access transit in local neighbourhoods.
I meant 1 or 2 from this plan that could be dropped. The bit between Fisher and Merivale could probably be handled by one stop, and Merivale to Maitland I'm not sure needs any stops between them. The rest seemed well spaced though.
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  #149  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2016, 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
Give me a break. This has to serve as local transit on Baseline Road. We are not going to have stops 1 or 2 km apart. This defeats the whole purpose. And there cannot be express and local buses. That will never work with no place for buses to pass each other.

When I hear that we are speeding up service on average of 11 minutes, and buses will no longer be caught in traffic jams (when delays will be even longer), I applaud. We are achieving what is intended. Significantly faster and more reliable service.
Agreed. I'm usually in the complaining-about-too-many-stops camp, but in this instance, the stop spacing is very good, given that it has to function as both a rapid transit route and a local transit route.
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  #150  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2016, 2:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Beedok View Post
I meant 1 or 2 from this plan that could be dropped. The bit between Fisher and Merivale could probably be handled by one stop, and Merivale to Maitland I'm not sure needs any stops between them. The rest seemed well spaced though.
Just remember that there are offices and a shopping centre entrance in between Merivale and Clyde. Skipping a stop there just leaves people frustrated if they miss a bus while trying to reach a stop. It isn't just walking distance.

In between Merivale and Fisher is Villa Marconi where staff may represent significant numbers of transit users or potential transit users.

There has to be an evaluation of easy access to transit destinations and speed of service in determining station locations. If we want build transit ridership we need to be careful in that evaluation.

Frustrated transit users especially away from downtown are just one step away from switching to a car.
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  #151  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2016, 3:27 AM
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
just remember that there are offices and a shopping centre entrance in between merivale and clyde. Skipping a stop there just leaves people frustrated if they miss a bus while trying to reach a stop. It isn't just walking distance.

In between merivale and fisher is villa marconi where staff may represent significant numbers of transit users or potential transit users.

There has to be an evaluation of easy access to transit destinations and speed of service in determining station locations. If we want build transit ridership we need to be careful in that evaluation.

Frustrated transit users especially away from downtown are just one step away from switching to a car.
+1.
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  #152  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2016, 4:39 AM
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Originally Posted by roger1818 View Post
My hope is most of the noisy diesel buses will be converted to quiet electric ones.
This might happen a lot sooner than you'd think.

New Flyer makes battery-powered electric buses; Winnipeg Transit has been running trials of them for the last year or so, and they've been performing very well; they've been very reliable and there have been no major glitches.

They can run for about five hours on a single charge and they can fully recharge in about 10-15 minutes, making their range easy enough for the city to plan around. Simply adding a charge port at major layup points and having a few minutes of charge time available at the end of each run could keep them running all day long.

They are almost twice as expensive to purchase, but they cost less to run, so over the lifespan of the bus the costs are about equal.

Once more trials have been conducted and more plants are able to manufacture them, they'll go big. I can see cities phasing them in between 2025 and 2040; in the same way most cities phased in low floor buses between 1995 and 2010.
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  #153  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2016, 6:37 PM
DEWLine DEWLine is offline
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Interesting to "hear" about those CRA plans.
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  #154  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2016, 12:15 AM
Beedok Beedok is offline
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
Just remember that there are offices and a shopping centre entrance in between Merivale and Clyde. Skipping a stop there just leaves people frustrated if they miss a bus while trying to reach a stop. It isn't just walking distance.
There are, but most people get off at either Merivale or Clyde. The middle stops are much less busy.
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
In between Merivale and Fisher is Villa Marconi where staff may represent significant numbers of transit users or potential transit users.
That's why I'm all for the Villa Marconi one. The other stop however seems less useful. (At least they got rid of Marson, half the time the bus drivers decided to drop that stop of their own accord. However Xena/Zena never really got much traffic either.)
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
There has to be an evaluation of easy access to transit destinations and speed of service in determining station locations. If we want build transit ridership we need to be careful in that evaluation.
I agree. I just question the value of a couple stops from familiarity with the bus route and where the bus usually just zips past. Of course anything that decreases the odds of clumping is an improvement.
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Frustrated transit users especially away from downtown are just one step away from switching to a car.
Definitely.
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  #155  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2016, 2:20 AM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
Just remember that there are offices and a shopping centre entrance in between Merivale and Clyde. Skipping a stop there just leaves people frustrated if they miss a bus while trying to reach a stop. It isn't just walking distance.
(emphasis added)

Thank you!

This is a functional point that transit USERS understand, even if they can't verbalize it... and which transit PLANNERS do not.

Quote:
Frustrated transit users especially away from downtown are just one step away from switching to a car.
I am finding more and more frustrated transit users IN downtown who are in the same boat. And it will get worse post-2018.
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  #156  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2016, 3:22 AM
Beedok Beedok is offline
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Originally Posted by Uhuniau View Post
This is a functional point that transit USERS understand, even if they can't verbalize it... and which transit PLANNERS do not.
And I'm speaking as someone who used that transit route daily.

The Zena stop is barely used, and those that do use it tend to be teens, who can walk a couple blocks to the Marconi stop.
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  #157  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2017, 12:38 PM
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Baseline Road rapid transit corridor travelling towards opposition
13.8-kilometre transit corridor requires the partial expropriation of more than 200 properties

By Chloé Fedio, CBC News Posted: Jan 04, 2017 5:00 AM ET Last Updated: Jan 04, 2017 5:00 AM ET


The City of Ottawa's $160-million plans for a new rapid transit corridor between Billings Bridge and Bayshore Station could face hoards of opposition at an upcoming committee meeting over concerns of installing bus-only lanes in the middle of Baseline Road.

The proposed 13.8-kilometre Baseline Road Rapid Transit Corridor also requires the partial expropriation of more than 200 residential and commercial properties, as well as the complete acquisition of up to 15 properties, to maintain two lanes of traffic on each side of the road, and include segregated bike lanes for cyclists and sidewalks for pedestrians.

Marjorie Shaver-Jones, the head of the Copeland Park Community Association, has helped collect feedback from hundreds of people in her three-building condo complex, including a petition with some 500 signatures opposing various elements of the city's plan.

A sticking point is the city's plan to place bus stops at medians instead of curbside pickup.

The condos at 1565, 1485 and 1505 Baseline Road have a total of 1,800 units.

"The current proposed project isn't the best the city can offer and we'd like something better," she said.

"We think that the dollars can be spent much more wisely to create a much more user-friendly bus system that is an improvement on Baseline Road."

Feedback so far has already yielded a key change to the proposal: a signal to allow eastbound vehicles to turn left through the transit corridor for access to the condo complex.

But Shaver-Jones is concerned the planning and environmental assessment study on the project will be rubber-stamped by the Transportation Committee at its February 1 meeting.

The federal government has already pegged $6 million for the design of the transit corridor.

"We're worried it's a done deal," Shaver-Jones said.

Plans for the rapid bus corridor are not new: the city's first open house for the project began in April 2012 and it was included in the city's 2013 Transportation Master Plan, which sets out projects to complete by 2031.

The Baseline rapid bus corridor includes 24 new transit stations to link east to west, intersecting with bus and rail stations, without going through the downtown core.

The first phase of the project would have median bus-only lanes from Heron Station near Billings Bridge to Baseline Station, said Vivi Chi, the city's manager of transportation planning.

Chi said there would be "improvements at intersections" to speed up buses between Baseline Station and Bayshore Station, but no median lane all the way through until after 2031.



Shaver-Jones suggested median bus stations would be a struggle for people with mobility issues, particularly in winter when the roads are covered in ice, slush and snow.

But Chi said it would actually cut the travel time in half for those who need to cross the street to catch a bus.

Chi said that city staff rejected the curbside option for bus lanes mainly because it would be impede right turns for vehicles travelling along the road.

Because the option was rejected, there is no cost estimate, but Chi said she believes it's not much different than the median option.

"There's lots of streets where cars want to make a right turn so that would impede the operation of the buses," she said. She added that having bus stations on the sidewalk was also raised as a concern by folks living in homes along Baseline Road.

"We've heard a lot of complaints from people when it's just a simple bus stop from a local route — how they don't like people congregating there, smoking, throwing cigarette butts around and staring into their windows," she said.

"Maybe the condo owners don't care because their buildings are set back but other properties along the way, along the corridor, wouldn't like that."

Jabbar Siddique, the project manager for the Baseline Road Rapid Transit Corridor, said bus commuters would save 6.5 minutes travelling between Heron Station and Baseline Station once the corridor is complete, or 11 minutes travelling the entire length of the corridor.

Chi said that as the city grows, rapid transit infrastructure is needed to support increased ridership.

There are about 6,500 riders along the corridor now, but the City of Ottawa expects that number to increase to 10,000 by 2031.

If the plan passes at Transportation Committee, it would go for approval at City Council on Feb. 8.

Chi said the province would have to approve the plan before the city could go ahead with the design process, which would take about two years before construction could begin.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ottawa-baseline-road-transit-corridor-concerns-1.3919275
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  #158  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2017, 1:35 PM
eltodesukane eltodesukane is offline
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"it would actually cut the travel time in half for those who need to cross the street to catch a bus."
-- It would also force those who do not need to cross the street to cross the street to catch a bus.
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  #159  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2017, 2:13 PM
TransitZilla TransitZilla is offline
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Originally Posted by eltodesukane View Post
"it would actually cut the travel time in half for those who need to cross the street to catch a bus."
-- It would also force those who do not need to cross the street to cross the street to catch a bus.
Sure, but assuming that your day involves 2 trips on the bus (one heading out and one heading home), then there is no difference in overall crossing distance

With curbside bus lanes you cross the entire street once; with median lanes you cross half the street twice. It's six of one, half-dozen of the other.

Plus, having the buses in the median means that your in-bus travel time is less.
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  #160  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2017, 4:36 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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Originally Posted by rocketphish View Post
There are about 6,500 riders along the corridor now, but the City of Ottawa expects that number to increase to 10,000 by 2031.

JFC... there are already over 12,000 average daily riders on the 12 alone, let alone other local buses on Rideau-Montreal and serving neighbouring communities... and what is the city doing about that improving reliability, service, and passenger experience on that transit corridor?

NOTHING.
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