Hwy 99 Fraser River Tunnel (George Massey Replacement) | Proposed

[urbancanadian]

I was reading through tomorrow's Richmond City Council agenda and came across a couple things I thought were worth posting. Link to the agenda: http://www.richmond.ca/agendafiles/Open_Council_10-11-2016.pdf (31 mb)

First is a model of the bridge looking south, to go with the previously posted photos of the Steveston and Highway 17a interchanges:

http://www.richmond.ca/agendafiles/Open_Council_10-11-2016.pdf (page 39)

Renders of the bridge, showing the BC Hydro transmission lines to be built adjacent:

http://www.richmond.ca/agendafiles/Open_Council_10-11-2016.pdf (page 47)

Location of the transmission towers:

http://www.richmond.ca/agendafiles/Open_Council_10-11-2016.pdf (page 352)

Another pic of the bridge model, this time including the Steveston interchange:

http://www.richmond.ca/agendafiles/Open_Council_10-11-2016.pdf (page 40)

New angle of the Steveston interchange which was posted previously:

http://www.richmond.ca/agendafiles/Open_Council_10-11-2016.pdf (page 41)

Another angle, looking south:

http://www.richmond.ca/agendafiles/Open_Council_10-11-2016.pdf (page 42)

Looking south again, toward the Steveston bus station:

http://www.richmond.ca/agendafiles/Open_Council_10-11-2016.pdf (page 46)

This angle shows how high the stack will be compared to the developments next door:

http://www.richmond.ca/agendafiles/Open_Council_10-11-2016.pdf (page 43)

[officedweller]

Thanks for posting!

[connect2source]

WOW!! Awesome post thanks!! What a monster!!...I count almost a 19 lane width at the north end of the Steveston interchange! Bridge towers look very much like The Alex Fraser and very different from the 2013 renderings. Shame to have the transmission towers so close.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by connect2source

WOW!! Awesome post thanks!! What a monster!!...I count almost a 19 lane width at the north end of the Steveston interchange! Bridge towers look very much like The Alex Fraser and very different from the 2013 renderings. Shame to have the transmission towers so close.

My reaction exactly. Love the look of the bridge, is it full suspension or cable-stayed? Also wish that the powelines could be a little further from the bridge.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by urbancanadian

New angle of the Steveston interchange which was posted previously:

http://www.richmond.ca/agendafiles/Open_Council_10-11-2016.pdf (page 41)

What a mess of spaghetti! Is this LA or Vancouver? Most cities are ripping up messes like this, not building it.

Got to love it how the buses have to cross to the opposite side of the highway to get to the transfer area. I know that is so they can have a centre platform, but it just adds to the spaghetti factor. I am not sure I understand what people will be transferring to on it though.

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

My reaction exactly. Love the look of the bridge, is it full suspension or cable-stayed? Also wish that the powelines could be a little further from the bridge.

That's a normal cable-stayed bridge. We probably won't see any more suspension bridge around here unless we get a longer span.

[s211]

Originally Posted by roger1818

What a mess of spaghetti! Is this LA or Vancouver? Most cities are ripping up messes like this, not building it.

That's a bald-faced falsehood, and you know it.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by s211

That's a bald-faced falsehood, and you know it.

Edmonton, Calgary, Toronto, Winnipeg, Regina, and Montreal are all currently building large highway / freeway projects at this very moment in Canada alone. We have had this circular argument before that every city listed that has removed a major road has also built new ones in the same or different locations since.

Cities are fluid places and over time some roads will be removed, others will be added, and many others will be expanded.

Example, yes Montreal is removing a short elevated stretch of highway in the city centre, but it also recently opened a new freeway and major bridge crossing, is replacing / expanding several key interchanges and stretches of highway, and is currently re-building what will be in some regards the largest bridge in the country (a 6 billion dollar project!) And please note Montreal's freeway network is far more extensive than Vancouver's.

Again, many cities around the world have also removed countless rail lines, I guess that means that we should not build new trains as well

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by connect2source

Bridge towers look very much like The Alex Fraser and very different from the 2013 renderings.

Remember, the design of the bridge will be undertaken by the successful proponent. This design is just a placeholder.
But we have previously surmised that the new bridge needs to straddle the tunnel during construction.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Got to love it how the buses have to cross to the opposite side of the highway to get to the transfer area. I know that is so they can have a centre platform, but it just adds to the spaghetti factor. I am not sure I understand what people will be transferring to on it though.

There will be stairs/elevators/escalators to the road above, where there will be another bus stop on the overpass.

The Harbor Transitway in LA has similar criss-cross stations.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harbor_Transitway

*********

WRT other cities' freeways, the freeway around Edmonton is now complete.

Alberta’s first ring road now open
http://journalofcommerce.com/Projects/News/2016/10/Albertas-first-ring-road-now-open-1019124W/

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by roger1818

What a mess of spaghetti! Is this LA or Vancouver? Most cities are ripping up messes like this, not building it.

Got to love it how the buses have to cross to the opposite side of the highway to get to the transfer area. I know that is so they can have a centre platform, but it just adds to the spaghetti factor. I am not sure I understand what people will be transferring to on it though.

Also, maybe I'm misunderstanding your post, but buses will not be crossing onto the opposide side of the highway to the transit station. The bus/HOV lanes will be in the median lanes.

[lightrail]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

Also, maybe I'm misunderstanding your post, but buses will not be crossing onto the opposide side of the highway to the transit station. The bus/HOV lanes will be in the median lanes.

That interchange is awful and is it really necessary? Isn't it time to really look at better alternatives to building more and more freeways?

The waiting environment for buses in the middle of that interchange would be horrific. Also, given the bus lanes are currently on the shoulder, does this mean they'll be moved to the middle? And if so, what a waste of money building the northbound bus lane a couple years ago.

Seems the livable region is dead. Sprawl is the future and I thought we were moving away from that model. Thank BC Liberal's for screwing up years of careful regional planning.

[dleung]

Originally Posted by roger1818

What a mess of spaghetti! Is this LA or Vancouver? Most cities are ripping up messes like this, not building it.

SSPers generally have a hard on for all things "big American city", minus the sprawl. Except cheering for massive freeways and sexy flyover ramps will mean more sprawl.

Why do the bus lanes need to switch? Couldn't they just drive on the "wrong" side all the way down the median until merging with general traffic? It's all so pointless anyway because traffic never happens south of westminster highway, it's always right before Oak Bridge, long after the dedicated bus lanes end, lol silliness

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by dleung

SSPers generally have a hard on for all things "big American city", minus the sprawl. Except cheering for massive freeways and sexy flyover ramps will mean more sprawl.

Why do the bus lanes need to switch? Couldn't they just drive on the "wrong" side all the way down the median until merging with general traffic? It's all so pointless anyway because traffic never happens south of westminster highway, it's always right before Oak Bridge, long after the dedicated bus lanes end, lol silliness

Given how tight the interchange footprints are for their sizes, they look more Japanese (the interchanges I drive almost every week) and Chinese to me

Traffic never happens south of Westminster highway..... realllllllyyyy?

Also, if you guys cared to look the dedicated bus lanes go all the way to the south approach of Oak Street, where they are met with dedicated ramps that will take buses to Bridgeport Skytrain Station.

Seriously, do people even research projects before they comment?

Also the demand is already there, the ALR is in place, so very little greenfield sites will be lost to development because of this project. The Native lands are probably the only place where that will happen (as they have already done with their new mall)

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by lightrail

Seems the livable region is dead. Sprawl is the future and I thought we were moving away from that model. Thank BC Liberal's for screwing up years of careful regional planning.

The livable region was never going to work in your lifetime or mine. "Live where you work" requires low housing prices, high density and high levels of transit. We only have one of those, and not by much.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

The livable region was never going to work in your lifetime or mine. "Live where you work" requires low housing prices, high density and high levels of transit. We only have one of those, and not by much.

Also, life is more complicated than being a single person in their 20s who has a single job in one location.

Many jobs require chancing locations on a yearly, monthly, or even daily basis (perfect example, my brother who installs elevators and myself who was in video production).

Then, many people have families that have different jobs. Husband and wife working in two very different locations for example. Then there is children and school / university life.

So you can have a father working at one spot, a mother with a job all over the map, an older child going to university, and a younger child going to HS. If you are able to have all these close to where you live in an affordable way, well, then you have hit the life jackpot my friend!

[p78hub]

Originally Posted by dleung

It's all so pointless anyway because traffic never happens south of westminster highway

Maybe in 1980?

Recently I took the wrong exit from hwy 91 and ended up southbound on hwy 99 towards the tunnel. At 3pm, so barely rush hour, it took me half an hour to get to the next exit at Steveston so I could turn around. This was with no accidents on either side of the tunnel, too.

Or maybe some of you think traffic only ever goes north into Vancouver.

[Millennium2002]

The images just emphasize how poorly sited that bus transfer station will be... Already I can tell that it'll be a dark, noisy, and basically uninviting place with all the ramps stacked on top of it. And I still very strongly believe that there will be a deadly accident in the making with the criss-cross format. One can only speculate why few other places have built something like this other than the one example in LA that everyone likes to point at...

If they can give me two proper bus interchanges north and south of the bridge, I'll consider supporting it. But right now I can't accept this half-baked verison.

[libtard]

People attack me for focusing on obscure things like centre dividing medians in a highway but transit folk do the exact same thing. Complaining about how a pathway "meanders"?? A bus station that's "dark and gloomy". What a joke

[ilikeredheads]

Originally Posted by allan_kuan

The images just emphasize how poorly sited that bus transfer station will be... Already I can tell that it'll be a dark, noisy, and basically uninviting place with all the ramps stacked on top of it. And I still very strongly believe that there will be a deadly accident in the making with the criss-cross format. One can only speculate why few other places have built something like this other than the one example in LA that everyone likes to point at...

If they can give me two proper bus interchanges north and south of the bridge, I'll consider supporting it. But right now I can't accept this half-baked verison.

I have to disagree. What is proposed here is much safer than current interchange for both passengers AND vehicle traffic. Passengers can transfer buses without the need to cross a bridge or intersections. The criss-crossing is much safer than it appears because it is a bus only lane, meaning buses cannot be interfered by regular traffic. If you are concerned that buses would hit each other, a simple stop or yield sign would fix the issue.

The Steveston interchange is in dire need of upgrade. It currently cannot handle rush hour traffic. Have you try going EB on Steveston hwy during the afternoon rush? Traffic can get backed up all the way to No 4 road.