Tsawwassen First Nation Updates

[Steveston]

Originally Posted by Stingray2004

Firstly, the Coast Tsawwassen Inn is already extant just a relative skip, hop, and jump in Tsawwassen proper. I have never seen a "No Vacancy" sign on the place over the past couple of decades. I suggest that that establishment "mops up" any demand for hotel rooms in the entire area.

In any event, the TFN lands in the locale of Tsawwassen Mills are not ideally suited for a hotel IMHO. Lands more suitable for same would be the TFN lands across Hwy 17 on the Tsawwassen Beach waterfront. The available land is certainly there adjacent to Tsatsu Shores.

And I'm sure that if a developer comes along and offers to purchase a site thereto on a 99-year lease, builds it and flags it with a hotel chain that the TFN would be more than happy. Again, I just don't see the business case for same.

I wasn't necessarily suggesting that a hotel would be an ideal use for the TFN lands. I was merely pointing out that there are other land uses on FN lands that would not have been so diametrically opposed to the notion of environmental sustainability as the current mega mall.

[cairnstone]

Originally Posted by whatnext

And Macarthur Glenn was a zoo the first couple weeks, now go check out how much empty parking lot there is.

BTW, was it mentioned in this thread that Bass is buying Cabelas for a cool $5.5 billion.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2...e-bought-by-bass-pro-in-5-5-billion-deal

that deal has been on going for months. Macarther glen is a vary successful mall. some stores there are the top sails chain wide

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by Stingray2004

this photo reminds me of the 1959 photo i saw, a store surrounded by nothing but parking lots. no parking structures for better utilization of space; little to no greenery. shame we are still building things like this. rooftop parking, god knows it is big enough, should have been used as well as solar panels over-top to provide shade to the park cars as well as give an enormous amount of power.


Vancouver Sun

[red-paladin]

Daily Hive agrees: http://dailyhive.com/vancouver/tsawwassen-mills-worst-urban-planning-metro-vancouver

[ryanmaccdn]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

this photo reminds me of the 1959 photo i saw, a store surrounded by nothing but parking lots. no parking structures for better utilization of space; little to no greenery. shame we are still building things like this. rooftop parking, god knows it is big enough, should have been used as well as solar panels over-top to provide shade to the park cars as well as give an enormous amount of power.


Vancouver Sun

The profit margins in Mills malls don't allow for such expensive luxury features as roof top parking or solar. God forbid Vancouver had a mall that catered to the lower middle class...

[hankthetank]

Originally Posted by red-paladin

Daily Hive agrees: http://dailyhive.com/vancouver/tsawwassen-mills-worst-urban-planning-metro-vancouver

It's very easy to sit and criticize TFN for building a mall on old farmland. I haven't seen anyone mention the fact that TFN had most of their land taken away, destroyed (with no consultation) and then left ignored by the government for decades. They are building a compact, complete community with a mix of housing choices and land uses. They are creating jobs and opportunity for TFN members.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by hankthetank

It's very easy to sit and criticize TFN for building a mall on old farmland. I haven't seen anyone mention the fact that TFN had most of their land taken away, destroyed (with no consultation) and then left ignored by the government for decades. They are building a compact, complete community with a mix of housing choices and land uses. They are creating jobs and opportunity for TFN members.

Jobs? There's only 470 of them. Do they all want to work at the mall?

[hankthetank]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Jobs? There's only 470 of them. Do they all want to work at the mall?

Guess you didn't read my entire post. They are building a completecommunity, not just the mall. Service commercial, retail, heavy and light industrial, etc. A lot of job opportunities for entry level as well as professionals.

[osirisboy]

Originally Posted by Vin

You too are a mall rat, eh?

Haha hell yeah. Bass pro is the main draw for me! Got some nice hunting boots you normally wouldn't be able to find anywhere

Yeah there definitely are a lot of temporary looking stores with t-bar ceilings without the panels in etc. and another weird thing was the big main unit at the main entrance had an art gallery. Seemed like they need some anchors in that section

[cornholio]

Went there today. Best mall in the city. Best mall in the region. I don't like shopping but need to do probably two trips a year to get everything done in one go. This mall will be where I go. Also as someone who hunts and fishes Bass Pro is pretty fucking cool, just surprised they didn't have a larger firearm section, it should have been quadruple the size at the least (also restricted firearms were missing completely which was odd). And that hockey store as well is out of this world. Guess I need to join a beer league team again.

This region has been crying for a mall like this for a long time. I just wish the phase two was joined with phase one so you can walk it all.

Cant believe it took so long to get a good major DESTINATION mall like this built in this region. This place will be a huge success and a draw for the entire region and Bass Pro will even draw in Vancouver Island.

[clee7903]

Went there today as well. Absolutely packed especially the drive into the parking lot itself took almost an hour. Once in there shopping is hectic but I guess the majority of people are there just because it's new. Only 3 washrooms for the entire mall.

[Steveston]

Originally Posted by hankthetank

Guess you didn't read my entire post. They are building a completecommunity, not just the mall. Service commercial, retail, heavy and light industrial, etc. A lot of job opportunities for entry level as well as professionals.

There are so many other things they could have done to create a complete community than build a 1980s era mega mall surrounded by 6,000 parking stalls.

I don't think they looked at all of the options available to them. And a complete community would have included sustainable development measures at a location that is tailor-made for some of them: solar, wind and geo-exchange. They could have created a development that honours their commitment to the land and ocean, while still creating economic opportunities to ensure the prosperity of their people.

What I see there now is, really, the last thing I would have expected.

[red-paladin]

Tsawwassen Mills shoppers trapped for up to 4 hours in parking lot chaos

The parking lot traffic at Tsawwassen Mills was at a complete standstill for much of Saturday, to the extent that drivers were stuck in their cars for up to four hours trying to get out of the shopping centre’s exits.

Angry shoppers waited for so long that some gave up on following traffic and made their own make-shift exits by driving on the grass and flower beds to get out of the mall. Among the many comments posted on social media, some even claimed that they were running out of gas waiting in the gridlock...

From: http://dailyhive.com/vancouver/tsawwassen-mills-congestion

[Klazu]

The congestion was so expected. If you have to go there when it opens, prepare for there being other lemmings too!

[Metro-One]

Still that is exceptional.

Hate to bring up Japan, but around here all major malls have traffic directors at the major entrances and pinch points.

Also, only 2 exits?

[go_leafs_go02]

Looks like the Province again half-assed their improvements to Highway 17. Should have made it a freeway all the way from Highway 99 right to the ferry terminal.

Yes, it's opening week, so congestion to be expected, but 4 hours. Yikes!

[Stingray2004]

Originally Posted by clee7903

Went there today as well. Absolutely packed especially the drive into the parking lot itself took almost an hour.

Late yesterday afternoon, I left for Tsawwassen for an overnighter. Was warned about Hwy 17 traffic problems in the area and checked Drive BC highway webcams. Sure enough, even at 4:30 pm, traffic was backed up heading into Tsawwassen Mills.

Just checked right now. Same thing starting to happen:



I know the area very well and I have previously suggested that folk take 17A/Deltaport Way/Arthur Drive/52nd St. No traffic and is a quick back entrance. Furthermore, park on the side road leading to the under-construction Tsawwassen Commons. All hassle free. Quick in. Quick same way out.

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Also, only 2 exits?

Yep. That is, if ya take Hwy 17 in/out. Gets more complicated as the 2nd exit to the west of 52nd Street is just a stop sign I believe (or is it signalized?). If a "ferry dump" occurs, good luck exiting from that point.

That leaves the lighted intersection of 52nd Street. And when a "ferry dump" happens, Hwy 17 can be backed up to 52nd St. from 56th St. as a result of a red light at 56th St. More problems then become extant.

Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02

Looks like the Province again half-assed their improvements to Highway 17. Should have made it a freeway all the way from Highway 99 right to the ferry terminal.

Yes, it's opening week, so congestion to be expected, but 4 hours. Yikes!

I believe that the "cheap" improvements to Hwy 17 west of 56th St. were actually paid for by the developer of Tsawwassen Mills.

To upgrade that area of Hwy 17 to freeway-standard would require interchanges at 56th St./52nd St./ and Tsawwassen Drive further westward. Who knows, when the TFN lands are fully built-out, the pressure will likely be on for same to eventually happen.

[cornholio]

Originally Posted by Steveston

There are so many other things they could have done to create a complete community than build a 1980s era mega mall surrounded by 6,000 parking stalls.

I don't think they looked at all of the options available to them. And a complete community would have included sustainable development measures at a location that is tailor-made for some of them: solar, wind and geo-exchange. They could have created a development that honours their commitment to the land and ocean, while still creating economic opportunities to ensure the prosperity of their people.

What I see there now is, really, the last thing I would have expected.

This is not a community it is a amenity for 2.5 million people.

Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02

Looks like the Province again half-assed their improvements to Highway 17. Should have made it a freeway all the way from Highway 99 right to the ferry terminal.

Yes, it's opening week, so congestion to be expected, but 4 hours. Yikes!

Agreed, interchanges should have been built at 56, 52, and Salish Sea Drive to begin with. Now there will be issues at those intersections when ferries come in and traffic surges and it will be costly and disruptive to correct this.

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by libtard

For the record I love this development and will definitely check it out on opening day

But in this age of amazon.com HOW did they convince the first nations that this mall would be a good idea? All I ever hear about department stores is closures and the industry being on life support. Brick and mortar is dead, is it not?

There's a few truths to this:
1. Online shopping - For electronics larger than laptop, certainly. For anything smaller than a laptop (eg books, dvd's) often the shipping (especially in Canada) is robbery. Amazon.ca is also often twice as expensive as Amazon.com and in some cases sellers on Amazon.com won't sell outside of the US because they're not licensed to by the brands they carry. I tried to find 35mm negative covers, and there isn't a single place in Canada that carries them for less than several hundred dollars, but I could buy them from the US for $10 as long as I bought $100 worth of anything from BHPhoto to make it worth it.

2. Clothing shopping is best handled in-person unless you know what size you are and have no intention of ever returning bad choices. I buy clothes online, I know what brands/sizes will most likely fit, but often what you buy online doesn't look like what it does on your screen, especially knit patterns.

3. You can avoid counterfeit clothing, electronics, and luxury brands by buying from their brand-name stores (eg Apple, Samsung, Louis Vuitton, Hermes, Nike, etc.)

4. "Dead Shopping Malls" is a thing. It happens in car-centric cities because a mall will open and be a destination for about a decade, but then the rent increases no longer cover operating a store in the mall, so they close, and subsequently other low-end retailers close up, and without enough anchor tenants, other stores close as well due to less people seeing it as a destination and able to get the same merchandise online.

So if you have to set aside one day in your way to drive out to the mall to get some $10 item, you can just order off Amazon and have it delivered to you within one day instead with no shipping cost, you go the Amazon route.

Largely, I predict that most of the north-of-fraser shopping traffic will die off quickly because it's too much of a pain to get to it. Pacific Center, and Metropolis at Metrotown are both closer and do not require a car to get to for anyone in Vancouver or Burnaby. If you're in Burnaby you have three malls to choose from on transit. But that's about the extent of it.

Surrey's terrible urban layout prevents anyone from actually doing any shopping at the malls, so I don't see Mills being any better unless you're in Delta or South Surrey. Should the LRT be built in Surrey, it will just make traffic snarls worse east of Delta, which could incentive anyone West of the LRT to shop at Mills instead..

[SpongeG]

when i went on thursday it wasn't too bad getting in, getting out even with no traffic was very confusing and it felt like i was driving in circles to get to the highway, the signage is clear enough but it goes against my instinct to leave in a different route to how i got there, if yall get what i mean.

for myself other than saks and harry rosen i wouldn't feel any need to go there and even them i can't afford to shop at either place lol but it was fun to look