Burnaby Updates

[WBC]

Metrotown used to be a relatively poor neighborhood. When I was moving in from West End 20+ years ago people warned me and I quote "that I should watch for gangs in Metrotown". This was a bit of exaggeration of course, but the neighborhood was almost all domain of the working poor on the south side. There were residential towers and a lot of them were full of retired people. One or two towers were added every couple of years. So you essentially had working poor renting walkups and retired people living in towers. The mall closed early and the neighborhood was dead after 6pm. There were truckers motels along Kingsway. The main school (Marlborough) that is now the largest primary school in Burnaby (1000 kids) was closed and used by some sort of college as annex.

That started to change in early 2000s and especially post 2010 when all of the sudden a lot of development started to take place and more and more families (especially Asian families) started to move in. The number of kids exploded. The main school was opened. The neighborhood started going upscale and condo prices went through the roof. Right now you are looking at paying 700K+ for a new two bedroom of about 800-900 sq. feet (which I am not sure how families afford with Lower Mainland jobs but that's a whole separate topic). The neighborhood gentrified (in fact Metrotown is a textbook example of gentrification). Old working poor and retirees are getting pushed out. There is a definitely more services, restaurants, entertainment being added to the neighborhood as a result. However, as with anywhere else that is introducing new problems - homeless, traffic, pressure on existing services (Bonsor community center for example). From my perspective changes have been good. The neighborhood is getting more walk-able, bike-able and exciting. However, if you are poor you are being screwed - big time...

[Spr0ckets]

Originally Posted by WBC

......The neighborhood gentrified (in fact Metrotown is a textbook example of gentrification). Old working poor and retirees are getting pushed out. There is a definitely more services, restaurants, entertainment being added to the neighborhood as a result. However, as with anywhere else that is introducing new problems - homeless, traffic, pressure on existing services (Bonsor community center for example). From my perspective changes have been good. The neighborhood is getting more walk-able, bike-able and exciting. However, if you are poor you are being screwed - big time...

That would be the case and true anywhere it happened, and Metrotown isn't particularly unique in this respect.
Unless your neighbourhood or town is headed in the opposite direction and getting run down instead (like certain parts of downtown).

Which I guess highlights the importance of things like these non-market units that this new project have.
(and a mystery why there's not a push for more like them in new developments).

You don't want to push all the low-income folks out of your neighbourhood and make it completely out of reach for even young people just getting on their feet.
Which is the danger that too-much gentrification, too fast poses - in this rush to be the next Yaletown.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Jebby

I think that's a Canadian thing in general.

It's not a Canadian thing - Montrealers are natty, Torontonians dressed to the hilt. It's a Vancouver thing, where looking like a logger / farmer / ex-hippy is the fashion order of the day.

[LeftCoaster]

Torontonians are dressed to the hilt?

When was the last time you were here?

For better or worse Torontonians dress almost identically to Vancouverites. Hipsters look like hipsters, yuppies look like yuppies, suits look a bit better in Toronto but that's about the only difference.

Your opinions of Canadian regionalism all seem like they were pulled from a book of 1980s stereotypes.

[retro_orange]

Originally Posted by Jebby

I think that's a Canadian thing in general.

Racist much?

[BobLoblawsLawBlog]

Originally Posted by POCO

Speaking of lack of a 7-Eleven type stores at Metrotown, is that Esso going to be changed into a 7-Eleven along with all those other Esso gas bars?

There's a Sevs on Royal Oak and Kingsway

[xd_1771]

Does anyone know what's gonna be put up at the site of the old Marine Pub at Marine/Gilley that got destroyed by fire around last year? Looks like some new retail and office space, I'm wondering if it'll be mixed-use and/or will there be anything that tempts me to get off while I'm on a passing 100

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

Does anyone know what's gonna be put up at the site of the old Marine Pub at Marine/Gilley that got destroyed by fire around last year? Looks like some new retail and office space, I'm wondering if it'll be mixed-use and/or will there be anything that tempts me to get off while I'm on a passing 100

All I could find is this - 5820 Marine Drive, Burnaby

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by Vin

Nowhere can trump downtown Vancouver when seeing how badly people dress or carry themselves in the Lower Mainland. Style-wise is one thing, but there are worse things that come to play when I say that: fact is, there are residents who are totally sloppy: they don't cut their hair or beard, or shower, or wash their clothes. Drawn-in faces and shrinking bones show many had been devastated by drugs. Many sit around, some making lewd comments at ladies passing by, some litter the streets whenever they can. I've seen it all. Just walk down Granville Street any time of the day or hang out East Side.

Neighbour of mine from Calgary says their city has no tolerance for the homelessness and street garbage, and that's why overall the Calgary looks clean (as in most cities in the developed world, other than the U.S.). Vancouver does not do much to make sure streets are clean and orderly.

Burnaby or Metrotown isn't bad by comparison. Streets are clean and well-maintained. Perhaps people there need improvement in the fashion-arena, but I don't think they look like hobos. I believe that by creating more work places in the Metrotown area and making it like a real downtown will one day propel Metrotown to become more sophisticated fashion-wise. By the looks of things, I think Metrotown is heading that way to become the second downtown of the Lower Mainland, without a lot of the negative traits (eg. from residents as well as transients) that tag along with it.

If Burnaby or Calgary had the homeless population that Vancouver does, they'd be a lot dirtier too. Easy to say what a better job you're doing when a problem is much smaller to deal with.

[red-paladin]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

If Burnaby or Calgary had the homeless population that Vancouver does, they'd be a lot dirtier too. Easy to say what a better job you're doing when a problem is much smaller to deal with.

Or when your city is so cold in the winter that your homeless conveniently all hitchhike to Vancouver.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Torontonians are dressed to the hilt?

When was the last time you were here?

For better or worse Torontonians dress almost identically to Vancouverites. Hipsters look like hipsters, yuppies look like yuppies, suits look a bit better in Toronto but that's about the only difference.

Your opinions of Canadian regionalism all seem like they were pulled from a book of 1980s stereotypes.

hmmmmmmmmmmmm. To be honest, I tkink they were (although Torontonians downtown seem to dress more expensively, if nothing else)

[Vin]

Originally Posted by red-paladin

Or when your city is so cold in the winter that your homeless conveniently all hitchhike to Vancouver.

Originally Posted by GlassCity

If Burnaby or Calgary had the homeless population that Vancouver does, they'd be a lot dirtier too. Easy to say what a better job you're doing when a problem is much smaller to deal with.

Or maybe they just do a better job to thwart homelessness in the first place?

Surrey and Vancouver need to be tougher to enforce disorderliness and make sure people all sleep in the shelters, and then clean up the streets or remove the tent cities. No more public display of stolen goods, public urination, dumping of garbage, loitering, begging etc. Those actions are driving away businesses on East Hastings and Granville. If they do that, we won't be complaining today. Vancouver is too loose to regulate itself, hence disoderliness blooms.

I can see Burnaby doing a better job as major roads like Kingsway and Hastings become way nicer upon entering the city. I have a feeling they have zero tolerance on vagrancy and other delinquent behaviours. You ever see beggars sitting around at the walk pedestrian bridge linking Metrotown to the skytrain station? Maybe that's why homelessness never plagues them. And maybe that's why developers are starting to realize its potential and building more commercial and residential projects in the city. All the new and upcoming projects will definitely attract more people to live there. Burnaby is already a prime retail centre of the region, and with 2 or 3 more town centres adding to the fold, it will become even better.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by Vin

Or maybe they just do a better job to thwart homelessness in the first place?

Surrey and Vancouver need to be tougher to enforce disorderliness and make sure people all sleep in the shelters, and then clean up the streets or remove the tent cities. No more public display of stolen goods, public urination, dumping of garbage, loitering, begging etc. Those actions are driving away businesses on East Hastings and Granville. If they do that, we won't be complaining today. Vancouver is too loose to regulate itself, hence disoderliness blooms.

I can see Burnaby doing a better job as major roads like Kingsway and Hastings become way nicer upon entering the city. I have a feeling they have zero tolerance on vagrancy and other delinquent behaviours. You ever see beggars sitting around at the walk pedestrian bridge linking Metrotown to the skytrain station? Maybe that's why homelessness never plagues them. And maybe that's why developers are starting to realize its potential and building more commercial and residential projects in the city. All the new and upcoming projects will definitely attract more people to live there. Burnaby is already a prime retail centre of the region, and with 2 or 3 more town centres adding to the fold, it will become even better.

It's not like they're not trying. Again, it's easy for Burnaby to just throw them off to Vancouver, and Vancouver's building social housing and shelters like crazy. But it's never enough. When you're the city that the homeless population of the rest of the country flocks to, you can't just "thwart it." The current reality on the ground is not a conscious choice that they are complacent with.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Vin

I have a feeling they have zero tolerance on vagrancy and other delinquent behaviours. You ever see beggars sitting around at the walk pedestrian bridge linking Metrotown to the skytrain station?

Are you saying you never see people begging at the passerelle??? I see them there all the time, usually at the mall end but sometimes at the stairs that go down to the sidewalk as well. There are a few people who have practically taken up residence there.

[Spr0ckets]

Originally Posted by Klazu

This was the point of my post that apparently something is now in works for that area which got me excited, as I have not heard anything previously. Those people didn't know any details, but apparently they have been made aware by their landlords that change is coming soon, which is great news!

Like Vin says, currently the area south of Beresford Street looks like a ghetto. I don't mean that the area would be dangerous (nothing like that), but the walk-up buildings look like third world country.

I really hope lots of new development is underway and I hope a new row of shorter towers and midrises south of the current row would get started soon. If the area east of Nelson Street shows anything, it's that the change can happen quickly!

I really like living in Metrotown as there is so much happening right now and the area is improving so quickly. In my opinion Metrotown (and Brentwood for that matter) is currently more interesting place to live than Downtown, wher changes are much more slower and careful. In Burnaby everything is big and bold right now, which is really exciting!

Following on this theme, I found a couple more images for the other project to your immediate west lot that's been brewing for while now, I suppose.

It even has a name now - The Sun Towers....
...by Belford properties.
Previously there was only the image showing just part of the podium, but these image shows the whole tower...s.

I didn't realize they would be two before, and from the sounds of it it seems like they might both be 41 storey towers.
Which, in addition to the other two towers coming to your immediate East is going to make that segment of Metrotown pretty dense with quite some height.

from..
http://www.vancouvernewcondos.com/pr...rd-properties/





They even have a logo all picked out.
They should have just leased one of your spectacular photos instead, IMO.

[officedweller]

Thanks!
The stepped top looks like the first of the "signature" towers at Station Square.

[Klazu]

Nice! I was somehow under impression that it would be 41 floors similarly to Gold House. I hope the darker theme would happen. It will be close to us, so with a 5 floor advantage we might still see over it. It's the Gold House that will be more of a view blocker for us (if we still live here when those go up).

The second tower will be much shorter, just like with Gold House. It will indeed be quite a row of towers once all completed.

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Are you saying you never see people begging at the passerelle??? I see them there all the time, usually at the mall end but sometimes at the stairs that go down to the sidewalk as well. There are a few people who have practically taken up residence there.

There are at least two homeless people in the immediate Metrotown-station area, and that doesn't include the seven or so abandoned Superstore shopping carts between the Recycling Depot and Marlborough Ave that I'm pretty sure were all stolen by the same woman.

For the most part, you don't see them at all.

I live literately within earshot of all the demolition and construction on Marlborough. Par for the course.

Originally Posted by POCO

Speaking of lack of a 7-Eleven type stores at Metrotown, is that Esso going to be changed into a 7-Eleven along with all those other Esso gas bars?

You know there are at least two 7-11's not far from the Mall right? One is at Royal Oak and Kingsway, the other is at Royal Oak and Rumble St.

The Tim Hortons (Central Blvd) at the Station Square is a 24-hour Tim Hortons, so there is finally some place other than McDonalds open a 3am that you can sit down at eat.

[Spr0ckets]

Originally Posted by Klazu

Nice! I was somehow under impression that it would be 41 floors similarly to Gold House. I hope the darker theme would happen. It will be close to us, so with a 5 floor advantage we might still see over it. It's the Gold House that will be more of a view blocker for us (if we still live here when those go up).

The second tower will be much shorter, just like with Gold House. It will indeed be quite a row of towers once all completed.

I just noticed a "For Sale : For redevelopment" sign on the lot exactly across the street from you, at the corner of Telford Ave. and Beresford, this morning.

I don't know how long it's been for sale, but that was one of the properties I'd previously been informed that the owner had no interest in selling for any price.
How times change.

Or perhaps he saw his next door neighbour to the East sell his lot for $32 Million to Thind properties who are doing the residential tower and non-market BC Housing rental mid-rise building, and he figured it was time to cash in.

I'm somewhat surprised that Thind properties didn't just buy both lots and apply for rezoning to combine them and have a lot size comparable to the other towers along Beresford. It's a pity about that.
Or maybe they did make an offer, which was rejected, and then this guy saw the neighbour sell his lot, and suddenly the market value for his lot plummeted since his lot alone is too small to build a Highrise residential tower (to me anyway), and he figured it was now or never.

In any case, if there are any buyers, given the size, I would expect no more than a midrise or low-rise.

So (assuming he finds a buyer), that would leave only the lot between the Thind properties and the Moda tower as the last remaining lot in front of the mall on Beresford between Modello and Modo, still with a walk-up and with redevelopment potential - leaving the owner of it sitting on a virtual gold-mine, whenever he decides to sell.

Assuming a big developer doesn't already own it.

[Spr0ckets]

Originally Posted by Kisai

There are at least two homeless people in the immediate Metrotown-station area, and that doesn't include the seven or so abandoned Superstore shopping carts between the Recycling Depot and Marlborough Ave that I'm pretty sure were all stolen by the same woman.

......

Is this the same woman who's set up camp in front of the Shoppers' Drug Mart on Kingsway?

Now that you mention it, for the most part it's possible to count all the 'usual' homeless you typically see around the Metrotown area - either by facial familiarity or the signs they hold up which are pretty much boiler-plate and unchanged for almost the last 5 years, if not longer (come on people, put some effort into it).

The only one I hadn't seen before was the woman in front of the Shoppers' - unless she had previously set up case elsewhere and has only recently relocated there.


In any case, Burnaby's (or is it BC's?) notoriously Tenant-friendly Housing and Rental by-laws have a lot to do with the relative lack of homeless people around.
It's incredibly difficult to get rid of squatters, if you're a landlord since the law always tends to lean heavily on the side of renters (and that's kind of the point of them).
Which seems a little insane in a city whose rental and housing rates are already way out of control and sky-high.