Downtown Vancouver Updates

[jlousa]

Looks like some upgrades coming to the Commodore space.

Vancouver Heritage Commission
Agenda, October 3, 2016
Main components of the proposed conservation plan are:
-rehabilitation of the existing storefront entrances
-preservation and restoration of the existing large canopies at the eastern and westernmost bays
-replacement of other canopies with a more appropriate design
-restoration of the juliet balcony at the westernmost bay
-preservation and restoration of the original tilework and brickwork after removal of existing steel canopy
-new signage concept design (subject to separate sign permit application).

[urbancanadian]

Originally Posted by BodomReaper

Thanks for the info. Hopefully Marcon can deliver well - they've never done a project of this scale before, and some of their smaller projects aren't exactly masterpieces.

Interestingly, they will have an even larger two-tower project going forward in Burquitlam around the same time. There have been preview ads all around Burnaby so we should see exactly what they have planned there soon.

[a very long weekend]

Originally Posted by osirisboy

What are you talking about? this is the most logical place for retail! And glut? There's basically no vacancies on Davie.

This mentality baffles me. It's on one of the main commercial high streets and you think it's wrong to put retail here?

seriously, plus people in vancouver don't seem to realize that compelling developers to include ground floor commercial space adds units to the market, which alleviates the pressures on rents, which the city can sorely use, unless you want to go further down the formula retail road.

this is to one side of the fact that vancouver is one of the only cities i know that stubbornly hews to a 'high street' model of development at the expense of neighborhood bars and shops. in a way it makes sense when your apartments are so expensive, people want to protect their investment by keeping any and all commercial activity a few blocks away. but just from a livability perspective, it's a real drag. plus it keeps the high street rents super high.

[s211]

Originally Posted by a very long weekend

seriously, plus people in vancouver don't seem to realize that compelling developers to include ground floor commercial space adds units to the market, which alleviates the pressures on rents, which the city can sorely use, unless you want to go further down the formula retail road.

Wow, you could "sorely" use a few Development 101 refreshers.

Forcing developers to build anything uneconomic means that the financial loss has to be made up elsewhere, and around here I can tell you that it unequivocally leads to higher new condo pricing. It's no secret in the industry here.

In effect, you're asking the residential market to subsidize uneconomic commercial space that the market has already told you it doesn't need.

[dleung]

We underestimate the demand for retail space. Retail rent per square foot in Vancouver is the highest in the country. Developers simply don't want to be landlords; they want to sell and move onto the next project, except that strata-style CRU's tend not to thrive as well.

[s211]

Originally Posted by dleung

We underestimate the demand for retail space.

The amount of vacant unit on major strips along Kits and Robson for example would tell me otherwise.

[RDW989]

On a gloomy Saturday afternoon, the crane goes up at the Jervis, at Davie. My pix, Oct 1, 16

[Vin]

Originally Posted by s211

Wow, you could "sorely" use a few Development 101 refreshers.

Forcing developers to build anything uneconomic means that the financial loss has to be made up elsewhere, and around here I can tell you that it unequivocally leads to higher new condo pricing. It's no secret in the industry here.

In effect, you're asking the residential market to subsidize uneconomic commercial space that the market has already told you it doesn't need.

Do you really know what you are talking about? Commercial spaces are not economical for developers you say? That's not true at all. Many downtown spots do not have retail only because the OCP does not allow it. If what you say is true, Shape would totally choose to build minimum at grade retail rather than a whole new mall at Brentwood. Same goes for the Gilmore project etc. When the city allows retail and commercial, developers love to build it. Only huge barrier to that is that the City of Vancouver can be very anal about not allowing it. Instead, the City is making their projects more uneconomical by forcing them to build social housing, contributing to the arts, etc. If they have a choice, I'm VERY VERY sure they'll rather include retail units, which they can at least sell or lease.

[retro_orange]

Originally Posted by Vin

Do you really know what you are talking about? Commercial spaces are not economical for developers you say? That's not true at all. Many downtown spots do not have retail only because the OCP does not allow it. If what you say is true, Shape would totally choose to build minimum at grade retail rather than a whole new mall at Brentwood. Same goes for the Gilmore project etc. When the city allows retail and commercial, developers love to build it. Only huge barrier to that is that the City of Vancouver can be very anal about not allowing it. Instead, the City is making their projects more uneconomical by forcing them to build social housing, contributing to the arts, etc. If they have a choice, I'm VERY VERY sure they'll rather include retail units, which they can at least sell or lease.

True, the reason we have so much vacant retail space isn't because we have too much of it, property owners would rather wait for someone to pay an exorbitantly high lease rate than lower their rates and fill up space. Many of these vacant spaces already had businesses that failed because they can't afford the lease. It's the most common reason small business fails in this city, only chains can afford the lease rate or high end stores for tourists. Many sit empty for years even in cheaper areas because they are too expensive.

[jlousa]

Retail isn't like residential, being a block over or even on the wrong side of the street can be a death sentence to the leasee. Sure some sections of Vancouver carry very high lease rates, unfortunately most other areas have terrible lease rates which do not even cover carrying costs and those costs are added onto the residential units. The amount of concessions owners of lack luster space have to give to attract quality tenants is mind boggling. It's not unusual for the owners to hemorrhage money for the first 10yrs of some leases.

[a very long weekend]

^ it's a public policy point. generally, lower rents because of a higher number of commercial spaces is a good trade off for the lost 4-5 apartments per tower that would have no impact on rent or prices. a commercial space in vancouver rents at a (much) higher rate per square foot than does a residential space, on average. point is that if you're going to have a zoning code that goes dense, have sufficient commercial space not to undermine the density. a nice dense neighborhood makes sense because it's amenity rich, not just because it's efficient.

edit: and to speak to your point more directly: if vancouver had been forcing grade level commercial in most buildings in these areas over the past few years, you wouldn't have these bananas leases and the goofy transition of vancouver from a city of small merchants to a city of chain restaurants. doesn't matter which government it is, your planning department runs a supply management system on ground floor commercial spaces with the hardcore zoning. i'm a pure technocrat, really believe in expertise, but vancouver is over the wall on this stuff. you guys should start looking further afield on your urbanism, like spain or russia or even just america.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by jlousa

Retail isn't like residential, being a block over or even on the wrong side of the street can be a death sentence to the leasee. Sure some sections of Vancouver carry very high lease rates, unfortunately most other areas have terrible lease rates which do not even cover carrying costs and those costs are added onto the residential units. The amount of concessions owners of lack luster space have to give to attract quality tenants is mind boggling. It's not unusual for the owners to hemorrhage money for the first 10yrs of some leases.

Haven't you realized that all the recent residential projects with huge retail component are sold out real fast, maybe within one or two days. All the retail units are also fully leased, especially those huge mixed commercial as well as residential projects.

Totally agree with retro orange and a very long weekend: lack of retail space makes leases very expensive, causing retailers to suffer, especially in downtown Vancouver area.

[officedweller]

There's a difference between a mixed use project with a retail node for the neighbourhood, and a mixed use building along an arterial street (or regular downtown street) that isn't necessarily a node.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by officedweller

There's a difference between a mixed use project with a retail node for the neighbourhood, and a mixed use building along an arterial street (or regular downtown street) that isn't necessarily a node.

Downtown Vancouver is small enough not to have any arterial streets. Most retail areas should be made into retail nodes for the best survival of the retail businesses,, as well as shopping convenience of residents.

[scryer]

Personally I think that the new Davie street and Alberni street proposals deserve threads of their own as they are both projects are significant changes to their neighbourhoods.... Food for thought.

[s211]

Originally Posted by Vin

Do you really know what you are talking about?

Well, I'll look at my 27 years of experience in the commercial real estate industry, and say "perhaps, maybe".

[officedweller]

Repainting awnings on The Hudson retail:


https://twitter.com/GranvilleStreet

[jollyburger]

The parking lot next to the London Drugs on Davie is fenced off. Looks like they'll start excavation soon for the new Larco rental:



https://changingcitybook.com/2015/10/03/1668-davie-street/

[retro_orange]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

The parking lot next to the London Drugs on Davie is fenced off. Looks like they'll start excavation soon for the new Larco rental:



https://changingcitybook.com/2015/10/03/1668-davie-street/

I noticed that today, it's quite a small property. I also noticed the old retail at the corner of Burrard and Davie is emptying out, same with the 70's retail building at Seymour and Davie but no for lease signs in the windows. Are there proposals for these properties? The one at Seymour has the sales Centre for Addition on Homer.

Plus i saw a development poster on the mini-mall that Little Sisters is in, near Jervis and Davie. Didn't get a good look, Any ideas?

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by retro_orange

I noticed that today, it's quite a small property. I also noticed the old retail at the corner of Burrard and Davie is emptying out, same with the 70's retail building at Seymour and Davie but no for lease signs in the windows. Are there proposals for these properties? The one at Seymour has the sales Centre for Addition on Homer.

Plus i saw a development poster on the mini-mall that Little Sisters is in, near Jervis and Davie. Didn't get a good look, Any ideas?

The Burrard/Davie lot was sold in June.

13,500 SF site located on the corner of Burrard and Davie Streets
Achievable density upwards of 5.0 FSR and height up to 300 feet
Potential to assemble neighbouring properties to increase site size and frontage on Burrard Street
Capitalize on the strong demand for Downtown Vancouver condos

http://www.collierscanada.com/18306