PHILADELPHIA | Lowrise/General Developments Thread - Page 339

PhilliesPhan · #**6761** Posted **Sep 29, 2016, 1:46 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by summersm343

Long-awaited Pa. grant for Gallery could mean progress for major revamp

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/re...ery-fashion-outlets-of-philadelphia.html

What I find more interesting than the article itself, is the description under the rendering in the article. It mentions that FOP will have "outlet shops of upscale brands such as Gucci and Prada, along with typical mall tenants such as H&M". The outlets of upscale brands particularly intrigue me, as I would expect Gucci or Prada to be located on Walnut Street. If these two are really going to be tenants, I guess that there is immense hope that the new clientele will be more upscale and have a greater disposable income.

If Gucci and Prada do really open outlets in FOP, my hope for them is the same as my hope for Nordstrom Rack: it will lead to a full-blown store. I have a feeling that we will get a Nordstrom department store at some point, and it's entirely possible to have full Gucci and Prada stores on either Walnut or South Broad!

New2Fishtown · #**6762** Posted **Sep 29, 2016, 2:11 PM**

[QUOTE=PhilliesPhan;7578091]What I find more interesting than the article itself, is the description under the rendering in the article. It mentions that FOP will have "outlet shops of upscale brands such as Gucci and Prada, along with typical mall tenants such as H&M". The outlets of upscale brands particularly intrigue me, as I would expect Gucci or Prada to be located on Walnut Street. If these two are really going to be tenants, I guess that there is immense hope that the new clientele will be more upscale and have a greater disposable income.

PREIT's partner Macerich is handling the leasing for the traditional retail tenants, modeled on their other fashion outlets projects. If you look at the retail mix in their Chicago project, you'll see it ranges from ultra low-end (Claire's outlet...who knew there was a way to make that store cheaper) to Elie Tahari, DVF, and Zegna outlets): http://www.fashionoutletsofchicago.com/Directory

On a recent tour of the gutted Gallery, I gleaned some tidbits into the thinking behind the project as it currently stands: stores like the ones mentioned above are likely to dominate the second floor, as a sort of natural outflow from Century 21's main floor. Flagship locations of larger stores would have their own entrances directly off of Market Street, and in some cases take multiple levels (so this is where you could picture a flagship H&M or Zara or something that pulls people in from Market, and then you go up to find fashion outlets). At least 15% of the total floor space of the project (which works out to about 100,000 sf, so a lot) is expected to be dining, likely of the destination variety. And then they're hoping to diversify with entertainment uses (reading between the lines, I think they'd like a cinema, we'll see), which could take harder to lease spaces on the 3rd level.

My overarching point being that while the name may be Fashion Outlets of Philadelphia, the current thinking from a leasing standpoint is to create something more multifaceted than that, so I find that branding to be something of a misnomer. While I don't know what this RACP money is for, let's hope it allows them to make the project as attractive as possible.

EastSideHBG · #**6763** Posted **Oct 1, 2016, 1:49 PM**

State awards $25.2M for Philly-area projects, including Viaduct Rail Park
Updated: SEPTEMBER 30, 2016 — 5:31 PM EDT
http://www.philly.com/philly/business/St...-not-for-SLS-condo-hotel-on-S-Broad.html

39.95n · #**6764** Posted **Oct 1, 2016, 10:39 PM**

Tower crane for 2400 Market is being installed. Didn't waste any time with that.

1487 · #**6765** Posted **Oct 3, 2016, 12:12 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 39.95n

Tower crane for 2400 Market is being installed. Didn't waste any time with that.

I saw that on Saturday when I drove by.

3rd&Brown · #**6766** Posted **Oct 3, 2016, 1:28 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilliesPhan

What I find more interesting than the article itself, is the description under the rendering in the article. It mentions that FOP will have "outlet shops of upscale brands such as Gucci and Prada, along with typical mall tenants such as H&M". The outlets of upscale brands particularly intrigue me, as I would expect Gucci or Prada to be located on Walnut Street. If these two are really going to be tenants, I guess that there is immense hope that the new clientele will be more upscale and have a greater disposable income.

If Gucci and Prada do really open outlets in FOP, my hope for them is the same as my hope for Nordstrom Rack: it will lead to a full-blown store. I have a feeling that we will get a Nordstrom department store at some point, and it's entirely possible to have full Gucci and Prada stores on either Walnut or South Broad!

You're not getting a Gucci or a Prada outlet. It's simply not a part of the strategy of the highest end brands. They don't make enough product (on purpose) to trickle all the way down to an outlet channel with 20 or 30 stores. (Which is how many (outlet) stores one's brand would need to have before opening in an unproven location).

The highest end brands have uniformly adopted a strategy where IF they require an outlet to liquidate old inventory, it goes in one of 4 locations: Woodbury (north of NYC), Cabazon (east of Los Angeles), Sawgrass (near Palm Beach), or Las Vegas North. These are the "power" centers that have managed to pull off an elevated experience in spite of them being off price retail centers.

You're not getting Gucci on East Market. Not in a million years. It's too risky, not on brand, and in an un-proven location.

summersm343 · #**6767** Posted **Oct 3, 2016, 2:16 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

You're not getting a Gucci or a Prada outlet. It's simply not a part of the strategy of the highest end brands. They don't make enough product (on purpose) to trickle all the way down to an outlet channel with 20 or 30 stores. (Which is how many (outlet) stores one's brand would need to have before opening in an unproven location).

The highest end brands have uniformly adopted a strategy where IF they require an outlet to liquidate old inventory, it goes in one of 4 locations: Woodbury (north of NYC), Cabazon (east of Los Angeles), Sawgrass (near Palm Beach), or Las Vegas North. These are the "power" centers that have managed to pull off an elevated experience in spite of them being off price retail centers.

You're not getting Gucci on East Market. Not in a million years. It's too risky, not on brand, and in an un-proven location.

Well sir, you're wrong. I was just in Orlando, and the Orlando Vineland Premium Outlets have a lot of high-end brands here that have opened Outlet stores:

Adriano Goldschmied
Armani Exchange
BCBG
Hugo Boss
Bottega Veneta
Brunello Cucinelli
Burberry
Carolina Herrera
Coach
Cole Haan
Diane Von Furstenberg
Ermenegildo Zegna
Kate Spade
Lacoste
Lululemon
MCM
Prada
Robert Graham
Roberto Cavalli
Salvatore Ferragamo
Shinola
Ted Baker
Theory
Tory Burch

Of course with a slew of mid-ranged retailers:
http://m.premiumoutlets.com/directory.aspx?id=874

If Philadelphia Fashion Outlets could get the same line-up, this would be a huge. A lot of these stores already have a presence in the area too in King of Prussia. Selling them on an Outlet store in the center of one of the largest Downtown's in America nearby their successful KOP stores (one of the largest malls in America) shouldn't be too hard.

summersm343 · #**6768** Posted **Oct 3, 2016, 2:19 PM**

2400 Market - Aramark Headquarters - 10 floors

Crane is up! Barriers going in place.

1487 · #**6769** Posted **Oct 3, 2016, 5:31 PM**

the lowest tower crane ever.

Cro Burnham · #**6770** Posted **Oct 3, 2016, 6:24 PM**

218 Arch seems to have started, all kinds of drilling, eqpt, soldier piles on sight. Tarmac completely ripped up. Anothe lot bites the dust. Kudos to PMC/Varenhorst.

summersm343 · #**6771** Posted **Oct 3, 2016, 7:29 PM**

Rail Park to begin construction by end of year with $3.5M state grant

http://philly.curbed.com/2016/9/30/13123990/rail-park-racp-state-grant-groundbreaking

3rd&Brown · #**6772** Posted **Oct 4, 2016, 1:34 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by summersm343

Well sir, you're wrong. I was just in Orlando, and the Orlando Vineland Premium Outlets have a lot of high-end brands here that have opened Outlet stores:

Adriano Goldschmied
Armani Exchange
BCBG
Hugo Boss
Bottega Veneta
Brunello Cucinelli
Burberry
Carolina Herrera
Coach
Cole Haan
Diane Von Furstenberg
Ermenegildo Zegna
Kate Spade
Lacoste
Lululemon
MCM
Prada
Robert Graham
Roberto Cavalli
Salvatore Ferragamo
Shinola
Ted Baker
Theory
Tory Burch

Of course with a slew of mid-ranged retailers:
http://m.premiumoutlets.com/directory.aspx?id=874

If Philadelphia Fashion Outlets could get the same line-up, this would be a huge. A lot of these stores already have a presence in the area too in King of Prussia. Selling them on an Outlet store in the center of one of the largest Downtown's in America nearby their successful KOP stores (one of the largest malls in America) shouldn't be too hard.

In the fashion world, all of those retailers except Bottega Veneta, Caroline Herrera, and Prada are in the "contemporary" fashion space (i.e. not high end/runway). We can agree to disagree. But I work in the NY HQ of such a brand. You do not. I understand the strategy.

If you think Gucci is on the same level as Kate Spade, Coach, or Cole Haan you're mistaken. Or you don't care much about fashion. It's irrelevant, but I can assure you they're not the same.

1487 · #**6773** Posted **Oct 4, 2016, 12:08 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cro Burnham

218 Arch seems to have started, all kinds of drilling, eqpt, soldier piles on sight. Tarmac completely ripped up. Anothe lot bites the dust. Kudos to PMC/Varenhorst.

yeah I think someone posted pics a while back. They have been digging for a while there.

jsbrook · #**6774** Posted **Oct 4, 2016, 12:09 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

In the fashion world, all of those retailers except Bottega Veneta, Caroline Herrera, and Prada are in the "contemporary" fashion space (i.e. not high end/runway). We can agree to disagree. But I work in the NY HQ of such a brand. You do not. I understand the strategy.

If you think Gucci is on the same level as Kate Spade, Coach, or Cole Haan you're mistaken. Or you don't care much about fashion. It's irrelevant, but I can assure you they're not the same.

Maybe not. But some of these others (Diane von Furstenberg, Zegna, Ferragamo, etc...) are luxury brands and do have presence in outlet form in appropriate locations. I bet they are at Woodbury Commons too. Whether Philly/the developers can attract these kind of brands to the new Gallery is an open question. I don't think anyone really cares about getting couture if what you are saying is that even these kind of brands are not true high end/luxury.

br323206 · #**6775** Posted **Oct 4, 2016, 1:03 PM**

Put me in the camp (with I would guess 99.999% of other people) that could not care less if there is a Gucci outlet in the new Gallery. Give me a Jos. A Bank Outlet and a Brewpub. Those are much more useful to me and the vast majority of other people in the region. I would also guess that they would drive much more foot traffic.

Redddog · #**6776** Posted **Oct 4, 2016, 1:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1487

yeah I think someone posted pics a while back. They have been digging for a while there.

They've been digging/drilling/pounding in that lot for 2 months and there is absolutely no sign of progress. Maybe they're building it underground?

1487 · #**6777** Posted **Oct 4, 2016, 1:49 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by br323206

Put me in the camp (with I would guess 99.999% of other people) that could not care less if there is a Gucci outlet in the new Gallery. Give me a Jos. A Bank Outlet and a Brewpub. Those are much more useful to me and the vast majority of other people in the region. I would also guess that they would drive much more foot traffic.

exactly. I will shop at Gucci with the same frequency as I do now if such an outlet is there- never.

jsbrook · #**6778** Posted **Oct 4, 2016, 2:19 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1487

exactly. I will shop at Gucci with the same frequency as I do now if such an outlet is there- never.

While I agree, I do think it would be a good move and contribute towards the success of the project if we can land similar stores to those in the Orlando Outlet that summers posted about.

summersm343 · #**6779** Posted **Oct 4, 2016, 2:28 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

In the fashion world, all of those retailers except Bottega Veneta, Caroline Herrera, and Prada are in the "contemporary" fashion space (i.e. not high end/runway). We can agree to disagree. But I work in the NY HQ of such a brand. You do not. I understand the strategy.

If you think Gucci is on the same level as Kate Spade, Coach, or Cole Haan you're mistaken. Or you don't care much about fashion. It's irrelevant, but I can assure you they're not the same.

Those are high-end brands. Sure Kate Space, Cole Haan, Coach, Lululemon, etc. may be more middle-ranged retailer, but most people are not able to afford a lot these brands unless they are at least on an upper-middle class income. Burberry isn't high end? With their $190 ties, $300 dress shirts, $1500-$2000 suits? Trust me, unless you're making $150K+ a year, you're not affording this. Even then, this is not really affordable... and I mean actually affordable, not splurging.

We're not saying runway, or Chanel, Gucci, Hermes outlets... but yeah, some mid-ranged like Ted Baker, Kate Space, and high-end retailers like Prada, Tory Burch, Burberry, etc. are surely possible for outlets at the Philadelphia Fashion Outlets. I don't see why that's out of the question. If they can make it happen in Orlando, they can surely make it happen in Center City Philadelphia.

Parkway · #**6780** Posted **Oct 4, 2016, 4:48 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by summersm343

I don't see why that's out of the question. If they can make it happen in Orlando, they can surely make it happen in Center City Philadelphia.

The biggest difference is that Orlando get far more foreign visitors than we do. Foreign tourists, particularly Chinese tourists love to spend money on luxury goods when they travel.