Calgary International Airport II

[Cage]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Only showing the total at the moment.

Squeezed out a tiny tiny gain of 0.1% but it's still positive! 1,480 more passengers in Aug 2016 vs Aug 15.

July was actually revised down to 2.4%.

Considering economic headwinds, these stats are exceeding expectations.

Also compared to our northern neighbor, these are phenomenally great statistics. Like the Oilers, the only place YEG is holding its own is in the men's washroom. That is enough friendly trash talk for one day.

[zahav]

Detailed stats have now been posted. Interesting development... Both Domestic and Transborder are back to declines after gains in July (Dom saw 0.6% decline, transborder saw 0.2% decline). However, international gains continued, up 7%. This means international single handedly was the reason for the tiny 0.1% overall growth. Pretty good that international, by far the smallest of the 3 components, managed to be responsible for pulling the number into positive territory. International is still a ways behind transborder in overall numbers, but seems the balance is definitely shifting a bit

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by zahav

Detailed stats have now been posted. Interesting development... Both Domestic and Transborder are back to declines after gains in July (Dom saw 0.6% decline, transborder saw 0.2% decline). However, international gains continued, up 7%. This means international single handedly was the reason for the tiny 0.1% overall growth. Pretty good that international, by far the smallest of the 3 components, managed to be responsible for pulling the number into positive territory. International is still a ways behind transborder in overall numbers, but seems the balance is definitely shifting a bit

Decrease in domestic and transborder does now indicate fewer pax in the region actually travelling due to the downturn. As more pax are funnelled through YYC from AB and SK due to their loss of flights indicates that fewer passengers overall just not travelling as much.
You can thank Westjet to LGW, Edelweiss to ZRH and Hainan to PEK for the int'l uptick.

[The Chemist]

Going to be trying out AC's Premium Economy product for the first time next week as I'm returning to Calgary for work for a week. Also going to be my first time on a 777. Looking forward to it!

[zahav]

It looks like AC has dropped SJD (San Jose Cabo) and ZIH (Ixtapa) from YYC this winter, had this been mentioned before? They will only be flying to CUN (Cancun) and PVR (Puerto Vallarta). Wikipedia (the bible) still shows these destinations. Am I missing something?

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by zahav

It looks like AC has dropped SJD (San Jose Cabo) and ZIH (Ixtapa) from YYC this winter, had this been mentioned before? They will only be flying to CUN (Cancun) and PVR (Puerto Vallarta). Wikipedia (the bible) still shows these destinations. Am I missing something?

Yes... Mentioned a few weeks ago.

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

AC seems to be getting very bearish on the YYC (non-USA) sun destination market... and the USA one too really... But

This winter looks like only one weekly to CUN and one weekly to PVR both on mainline A319s. This is a far cry from the 9 weekly to 5 destinations last year.

VRA has been dropped as well. Perhaps nobody has updated Wikipedia... as we know Wikipedia not always reliable... But generally not too bad.

I hate to say this but from recent observations, YYC seems to be falling in importance as a hub for Air Canada.

[zahav]

Thanks Johnny Aussie, I thought I remembered seeing something but forget where or when (being on the YVR, YYC, YEG, and Canada-wide threads at once I forget where I saw things!). PS, someone updated Wikipedia already, I was going to do it myself and someone beat me to it Collaborative editing works hehe

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Yes... Mentioned a few weeks ago.



VRA has been dropped as well. Perhaps nobody has updated Wikipedia... as we know Wikipedia not always reliable... But generally not too bad.

I hate to say this but from recent observations, YYC seems to be falling in importance as a hub for Air Canada.

Not just recently. It's been an ongoing trend for the last 10 years. AC has been adding international flights out of YYZ, YVR and YUL, and all the while YYC has been neglected. Apart from the daily flight to NRT, AC hasn't done anything significant at YYC during that time. Heck, YOW has gotten more AC destinations in that timeframe than YYC.

The cuts to sun destinatons can be partly blamed on them still being operated by AC mainline, which is not competitive compared to WS, TS and Sunwing. Once Rouge properly settles itself in the West coast, with a pilot base at YVR, i can see these routes coming back to YYC.

However, the current economic context will mean that won't happen in the short to medium term. That being said, I think YYC deserves to have at least an AC flight to China.

[PPAR]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

Not just recently. It's been an ongoing trend for the last 10 years. AC has been adding international flights out of YYZ, YVR and YUL, and all the while YYC has been neglected. Apart from the daily flight to NRT, AC hasn't done anything significant at YYC during that time. Heck, YOW has gotten more AC destinations in that timeframe than YYC.

The cuts to sun destinatons can be partly blamed on them still being operated by AC mainline, which is not competitive compared to WS, TS and Sunwing. Once Rouge properly settles itself in the West coast, with a pilot base at YVR, i can see these routes coming back to YYC.

However, the current economic context will mean that won't happen in the short to medium term. That being said, I think YYC deserves to have at least an AC flight to China.

I suspect that Air Canada's idea of a perfect world would involve flying every international flight out of Canada from YYZ, and then offering Americans access to those flights...
Air Canada needs to promote YYC as a hub only as much as required to keep Westjet in its place. It cannot totally ignore YYC, because it would risk giving Westjet clear market dominance in Western Canada.

PS- I lived in Ottawa. I certainly would not trade their flight roster for Calgary's. Poor bastar&s always seem to need to go through YYZ!

[Cage]

In defense of AC, they have done a lot in our city over the past 10 years.

(1) Seats have increased over 50% in broad assortment of larger aircraft across deployed on all routes. 37 and 50 seat Dash 8-100/300 have largely been replaced by Q400s. Embraers are off the transcon and YVR, replaced by A320 series.
(2) new routes to SEA, PDX, OGG (the only mainline to Hawaii) and reintroduction of SFO. NYC market is sustainable year round.
(3) New international route to NRT, supported by AC throughout the downturn in Japanese economy caused by Fukushima disaster. Commitment to provide PEK service if slots can be obtained.
(4) General strengthening of international routes to FRA and LHR, larger aircraft.
(5) YYZ flights support larger narrowbody aircraft with widebody flights on select departure times. The widebody flights support premium transcontinental traffic. 10 years ago, only YVR-YYZ and YUL-YYZ enjoyed this level of service.

[Riise]

Originally Posted by Cage

In defense of AC, they have done a lot in our city over the past 10 years.

Yup.

I don't think we should start hating on airlines because we're not getting the type of service that we believe we can support; that won't get us anywhere. It's better to focus one's effort on working with the group upon who you depend.

[Johnny Aussie]

Whoa there tiger! Let's not over-react. Definitely no hate here. I shouldn't have said anything for fear of baiting the hater(s).

Without a doubt all that Cage has highlighted is true. All that has happened. But a lot of that happened years ago. SEA, PDX, OGG have been around for years and SFO is just replacing lost UA capacity. OGG is still mainline b/c of NRT. NRT still stuck at 3 weekly in the winter and a 763 still. A lot of the fleet upgauges have also happened due to fleet restructuring/shuffling (DH1s and DH3s being phased out for example). One could argue LHR and FRA have actually lost capacity as both at one time were 77Ws and LHR has lost frequencies recently. The progression to the 787-8 and 787-9 is also a factor of fleet renewal.

All I'm talking about is in the last couple of years, the importance of YYC as a hub to AC has begun to fade as the other three really seem to be building momentum. Just observations that have taken place "recently."

Don't let anyone from the YEG thread see anything resembling a sentiment that AC has been unkind to Calgary. The world will explode.

[cyeg66]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Whoa there tiger! Let's not over-react. Definitely no hate here. I shouldn't have said anything for fear of baiting the hater(s).

Without a doubt all that Cage has highlighted is true. All that has happened. But a lot of that happened years ago. SEA, PDX, OGG have been around for years and SFO is just replacing lost UA capacity. OGG is still mainline b/c of NRT. NRT still stuck at 3 weekly in the winter and a 763 still. A lot of the fleet upgauges have also happened due to fleet restructuring/shuffling (DH1s and DH3s being phased out for example). One could argue LHR and FRA have actually lost capacity as both at one time were 77Ws and LHR has lost frequencies recently. The progression to the 787-8 and 787-9 is also a factor of fleet renewal.

All I'm talking about is in the last couple of years, the importance of YYC as a hub to AC has begun to fade as the other three really seem to be building momentum. Just observations that have taken place "recently."

Cage's comment was regarding the past "10 years", for context, and he's spot on. And to those of you (from out of province) highlighting YYC's decline in AC's network, let's hypothesize what would happen to your own local markets, and by extension, airport, if your primary industry was decimated by an equal, devastating confluence of market and political factors, then let's talk. Things will (should) be different in a couple of years, as perhaps a little common sense returns to the masses.
Here's an unsurprising nugget: YYC is also declining in WS's hub model (gasp!).

[PPAR]

You know, to summarize the reason for YYC's stable volumes, you can simply superimpose the growth curve seen at Canada's hub airports, onto the declines expected from the resources crash and voila...
So the positive spin is that YYC has stable volumes because it is one of Canada's big 4.

[casper]

Originally Posted by PPAR

You know, to summarize the reason for YYC's stable volumes, you can simply superimpose the growth curve seen at Canada's hub airports, onto the declines expected from the resources crash and voila...
So the positive spin is that YYC has stable volumes because it is one of Canada's big 4.

You need to take into account that this a Hub that primarily serves AB, SK and parts of BC. If there is an economic downturn in the region, what do you expect AC to do. It is in the business of operating the aircraft and flights with the best fit for that region.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by cyeg66

Cage's comment was regarding the past "10 years", for context, and he's spot on. And to those of you (from out of province) highlighting YYC's decline in AC's network, let's hypothesize what would happen to your own local markets, and by extension, airport, if your primary industry was decimated by an equal, devastating confluence of market and political factors, then let's talk. Things will (should) be different in a couple of years, as perhaps a little common sense returns to the masses.
Here's an unsurprising nugget: YYC is also declining in WS's hub model (gasp!).

Again let's not overreact.

As an expat Calgarian now living in Australia..... My first comment was exactly that... "Recent" was the word. I was referring to recent developments and he referred to the last 10 years. Yes Cage was spot on on his analysis spanning back 10 years which I fully agree. However, again, recent observations indicate the AC hub at YYC is becoming less important as they (AC) continue to focus on building up YVR, YUL and of course YYZ. As these three hubs are strengthened it will become more difficult to build back up. Of course it has to do with economics, politics, geography etc... My comment was just an observation and my opinion as to how I am interpreting what has been going on at AC for the past two years. That's all... nothing more nothing less.

[Riise]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Whoa there tiger! Let's not over-react. Definitely no hate here. I shouldn't have said anything for fear of baiting the hater(s).

I may have jumped the gun a bit as I've been into YEG Threads and would simply hate it if we became anywhere as negative.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by Riise

I may have jumped the gun a bit as I've been into YEG Threads and would simply hate it if we became anywhere as negative.

Nothing to be too concerned about. YYC is definitely solidifying itself as the primary prairie hub as flights are consolidated at YYC. AC hasn't particularly dropped too many flights from YYC but just not growing.
As for the YEG negativity it's really just a very small few that perpetuate that.

[jmt18325]

You also have to remember that the only reason there isn't another Asia flight (to PEK) is the apparent inability of Air Canada to secure another slot there.