The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by d_jeffrey

Seems that it was indeed incompetence at the TTC, and I hope there will be a major check for government transit programs. At least QC has now fraud control in all procurement processes, Ontario should do the same.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2016/09/27/report-sounds-alarm-on-big-ttc-projects.html

The Ontario government has solved this problem through the use of P3 contracting. Infrastructure Ontario (IO), a government agency, has developed its own form of a P3 that is now standard for all large infrastructure projects in the province. Use of the IO P3 process is not mandatory; but I do believe using it is typically a condition for getting provincial funding for a project.

The IO P3 system has a very good track record for the projects it has tendered; for example, the Confederation Line in Ottawa is a shining example of a well run construction project.

The TTC's own procurement process, which it used for the Spadina line as it was tendered before the IO P3 system was developed, is a complete disaster. Because of political controversies over P3s (including intense opposition from the TTC union), the IO P3 system has only been used on projects where the province is in charge, and it's always been controversial everywhere it's tried. IMO, the province needs to step in and mandate it for all large projects whether provincially funded or not.

[MalcolmTucker]

For larger centres IO in the past has been advisory only. Usually city councils in most cities will want to develop their own internal P3 capacity. This may have changed in more recently issued projects as IO holding the asset until turnover to the city means a lower deficit as the spending is offset by the acquisition of the asset, then the asset is amortized over the length of time until hand over.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by SaskOttaLoo

I agree with this. I absolutely love riding the Queen streetcar as a tourist when I'm in Toronto - it's so nice to be above ground and visually decide which places look interesting enough to get off. I find it a bit confusing that the subway maps last time I was there didn't include the streetcars - it seemed like they were an extension of the subway system and including them in the map would have made me more likely to use them...as a tourist I find that you often tend to gravitate towards metro systems just because they seem easier to use than do buses...

At the end of the day, streetcars are still just slow, local transit. Buses on rails. The subway map is supposed to show which destinations are quickly accessible and are important from a regional standpoint.

[caltrane74]

Heaven forbid, downtown Toronto was being ploughed by buses.

Streetcars are neighborhood transit, like from Parkdale to High Park or King West, or the Beach to Corktown/Leslieville, the Annex to Chinatown/Queens Quay/Harbourfront, Gerrard-India Bazzar to Cabbagetown, Kensington Market to Little Portugal, Little Italy to the lakeshore/CNE. Its not meant to cover long distances in short time, that is what subways/underground-lrt/commuter rail/RER Regional Express Rail/Tor-KW-High-Speed Intercity Rail are for. And our new streetcars are more roomy than in the past, too bad bombardier can't build them fast enough.

Although 3 new subway lines coming into downtown from the East/West and North would be awesome.

[p_xavier]

Originally Posted by RyLucky

Will a regular metro fare get you to the airport on REM?

The new ARTM transit agency is mandated of fare planning for the whole Montréal region, as to simplify the different fares. The result will be zones. There are already zones but local transit agencies can provide their own fares. The 18 transit agencies are already merged into 5, 4 of them giving services and 1 doing the planning and finances. There are currently over 900 different fares in the Montréal region.

[RyLucky]

Originally Posted by d_jeffrey

The new ARTM transit agency is mandated of fare planning for the whole Montréal region, as to simplify the different fares. The result will be zones. There are already zones but local transit agencies can provide their own fares. The 18 transit agencies are already merged into 5, 4 of them giving services and 1 doing the planning and finances. There are currently over 900 different fares in the Montréal region.

It could be interesting how automatic payment cards (i.e. Presto etc) effect fares. Perhaps users could pay by distance rather than zones, and hopefully more regional cooperation results in fewer idiotic transit boundaries. In the GTA for example, if you want to travel from 1 block south of Steels (Toronto) to 1 block north of Steels (York Region), you have to pay fares ($3.25+$4) for both agencies with zero cost savings. $14.50 for a round trip on a bus that goes only a couple km- How stupid is that! No wonder traffic is a nightmare. With literally hundreds of thousands of people commuting across this line in both directions, you'd think we could find a more sensible solution.

[p_xavier]

Originally Posted by RyLucky

It could be interesting how automatic payment cards (i.e. Presto etc) effect fares. Perhaps users could pay by distance rather than zones, and hopefully more regional cooperation results in fewer idiotic transit boundaries. In the GTA for example, if you want to travel from 1 block south of Steels (Toronto) to 1 block north of Steels (York Region), you have to pay fares ($3.25+$4) for both agencies with zero cost savings. $14.50 for a round trip on a bus that goes only a couple km- How stupid is that! No wonder traffic is a nightmare. With literally hundreds of thousands of people commuting across this line in both directions, you'd think we could find a more sensible solution.

It's like that in Montréal. We had smart cards since 2008 and things got even worse fare-wise because how easy it is to have a new electronic fare.

[MalcolmTucker]

As long as distance based fares don't cause capacity problems at bottlenecks, should be good. Wouldn't want for low fare passengers displacing high fare passengers if they are zero sum (during congestion they can be).

[RyLucky]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

As long as distance based fares don't cause capacity problems at bottlenecks, should be good. Wouldn't want for low fare passengers displacing high fare passengers if they are zero sum (during congestion they can be).

I feel like that could be tinkered with. Perhaps the formula is 2.00+0.25/km or something, so even short trips pay a sizeable amount.

Another possibility could be surge charge at peak hours.

(Btw, I'm not sure where I stand on this. I lean towards the belief that all commuting-transit should be essentially free/paid by tax/paid by manditory employee deductions and transit should be expanded and further subsidized. But I'm a communist, so don't worry what I think.)

[nephersir7]

Originally Posted by d_jeffrey

The new ARTM transit agency is mandated of fare planning for the whole Montréal region, as to simplify the different fares. The result will be zones. There are already zones but local transit agencies can provide their own fares. The 18 transit agencies are already merged into 5, 4 of them giving services and 1 doing the planning and finances. There are currently over 900 different fares in the Montréal region.

I was told by CDPQ Infra's operations director that the airport station fare will NOT be set by the ARTM.

it will probably be something like $15.

[Rico Rommheim]

Originally Posted by nephersir7

I was told by CDPQ Infra's operations director that the airport station fare will NOT be set by the ARTM.

it will probably be something like $15.

Still better than the 30$ I pay for a cab ride. And still more worth it than that god-awful ride on the 747 shuttle.

[p_xavier]

Good news for the CDPQ Infra, the VIA Rail CEO agreed to let the Mount Royal Tunnel exclusivity for the REM. This was a major contentious point.

[RyLucky]

Originally Posted by Rico Rommheim

Still better than the 30$ I pay for a cab ride. And still more worth it than that god-awful ride on the 747 shuttle.

Not if you have a friend.

[Rico Rommheim]

Originally Posted by d_jeffrey

Good news for the CDPQ Infra, the VIA Rail CEO agreed to let the Mount Royal Tunnel exclusivity for the REM. This was a major contentious point.

So this pretty much kills his plan for a direct Montreal-Quebec downtown-to-downtown trip.

[GreaterMontréal]

With the REM, for someone who lives in Laval or on the North Shore, they won't need to go downtown to access the Métro of the commuter rail. The A-40 intermodal station will do the job. More than 1M people live in the North Shore (Laval included).

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by RyLucky

Not if you have a friend.

The Canada Line stats from a few years back showed an 11% passenger transit modal share. I doubt they will be able to cover the tunnel under the airport with a similar load, but they have other considerations like increasing the footprint of their tax increment financing area. Maybe technoparq and the business parks in the area will experience a more significant value uplift than not with the airport link.

[p_xavier]

Originally Posted by Rico Rommheim

So this pretty much kills his plan for a direct Montreal-Quebec downtown-to-downtown trip.

No, but a 20 minutes longer trip to Central Station if you don't transfer at a REM station.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by d_jeffrey

Good news for the CDPQ Infra, the VIA Rail CEO agreed to let the Mount Royal Tunnel exclusivity for the REM. This was a major contentious point.

So, where will the Via stop?

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by Rico Rommheim

Still better than the 30$ I pay for a cab ride. And still more worth it than that god-awful ride on the 747 shuttle.

$10 to ride a city bus with a luggage rack is kind of a rip off. For that price, I expect a coach and a driver who takes your bag for you.

In Toronto, the opening of UPX also coincided with the TTC sprucing up their 192 Airport Rocket. It goes to the nearest subway station rather than downtown, but it also costs the same as a regular bus fare.

[p_xavier]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

So, where will the Via stop?

Central Station, the train will need to go around the mountain.