Winnipeg | 300 Main St.- Phase II 360 Main St. | 465 Ft | 42F | Completed

[pegcityfan]

Originally Posted by Urban recluse

Considering Pollard has also purchased the MacDonald Block, and will spend X number of dollars on that, plus he is moving to purchase the Winnipeg Hotel and empty lot, this appears to be a Hell of a lot more than helping his brother in law out.

As I said, no way he does anything of this in the first place if not for the family dynamics. He may have had plans to get into the restoration game (maybe not) but this building in particular... No way.

It's obviously evolved into a pet project due to opportunity and circumstance. Gotta think it's in his best interest to improve his immediate neighbours if he is to make that building work. How do you attract tenants (residential and/or commercial) when you have whats currently in the Winnipeg and MacDonald building. Having them all is a great opportunity. Winnipeg hotel will be the harder building to acquire & change.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Urban recluse

Well, in any event, I do not care about that; this guy will be spending millions of his own money to transform these buildings, and the appearance of this block of Main will be amazing in the near future. I think it is pathetic that some of you are reaching....

Don't get me wrong, I don't necessarily care about why it's happening... I'm just glad it's happening period.

[Urban recluse]

Originally Posted by pegcityfan

As I said, no way he does anything of this in the first place if not for the family dynamics. He may have had plans to get into the restoration game (maybe not) but this building in particular... No way.

It's obviously evolved into a pet project due to opportunity and circumstance. Gotta think it's in his best interest to improve his immediate neighbours if he is to make that building work. How do you attract tenants (residential and/or commercial) when you have whats currently in the Winnipeg and MacDonald building. Having them all is a great opportunity. Winnipeg hotel will be the harder building to acquire & change.

Based on you knowing him?

[Jeff]

Originally Posted by esquire

Clearly more downtown small businesspeople need to hook up with the siblings of women married to rich dudes.

this should be centre venture's new mandate.. a kind of Winnipeg-style redevelopment tinder. the app developers could be located on "innovation alley" too!

[Ando]

Well, I guess we've thoroughly explored the marital connections of Pollard which undoubtedly played a part in his initial interest in the project. But I think he's taken it further than he needed to just for the purposes of protecting Times Changed and that's great. Some people do exist who have an interest in transforming heritage buildings quite apart from making their family members happy. But if happens that way, great.

[Urban recluse]

If he is spending all this money for these buildings with family ties in mind, Hell, I'll blow him to purchase and renovate 317 McDermot; Innovation Alley looks like anything but with this mammoth embarrassment.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Urban recluse

If he is spending all this money for these buildings with family ties in mind, Hell, I'll blow him to purchase and renovate 317 McDermot; Innovation Alley looks like anything but with this mammoth embarrassment.

I'm glad SSP members are willing to step up to do their part for downtown development

317 McDermot is in decent shape though, isn't it? Just needs a little cleaning up.

[Ando]

Now things are getting interesting.

[Urban recluse]

It basically needs what the Ashdown Building went through: new windows, the exterior cleaned, etc. As the apparent hub of innovation, this stretch of Adelaide is dreary.

Less this:

https://www.google.ca/maps/@49.8989366,-...1a233NP8zjl4w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

More this:

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.0338641,-...Z6PNBDklk-WQgLqbHwgzw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

[Wolf13]

Originally Posted by trueviking

The thing about getting rid of old hotels is it doesn't get rid of the 'rif raf' who stay in them.

Heritage designation is only a council vote away from being removed. If a real proposal is brought forward I don't think it would stand in their way.

??

It absolutely would. They all gather in and around the Vendome, who rents out to them and uses them as patrons/clients.

No Vendome, and stricter property management, and they would go elsewhere.

Originally Posted by 1ajs

agreed

if we want to change the rift raft problem then as a country we need to deal with it mental health and such

and i doubt artist reit would pull such a stunt they would just buy the damn thing

No, no, that's not it.

This isn't about reducing addiction or homelessness. It's about getting it off Artis doorstep. That's all. They gather at the Vendome, right across from 360's Fort st entrance. This not only ruins the pedestrian experience on Fort, but they regularly pour into Winnipeg Square due to proximity.

If Artis has control over the asset, then the riff raff would go elsewhere.

If the Woodbine were a Library and not a bar/hotel, there would be less drunk people there. That's a fact.

Originally Posted by Ando

Whoa! My comment about Pollard was just a throwaway, more flippant than anything. For the record, I am not expecting Pollard to start buying all decrepit properties and redeveloping them. I am merely pointing out that no property is probably more decrepit than Fortune Block was, and if the will and money is there, any property can be transformed back to health. I doubt if the Vendome is in any worse shape than the Fortune Block was. Not to say that demolition by neglect doesn't sometimes work. I'm pretty sure Zaifman is diligently working to ensure that the St. Charles falls or burns down one day.

Totally fair, dunno why I took it so literally. As far as the Vendome's potential, I think it's there... maybe.

I guess I'm on the "family" side, I don't think he would have touched fortune if not persuaded by family. My guess is he's stuck in an investment and is simply willing to grind it out until it breaks even.

Artis, however, has shareholders... they can't necessarily grind out a Vendome project that doesn't pay because they have a board and investors to answer to. I'd like to think it's very possible to renovate it, but it's still a wishy washy idea... I'm sure that they wouldn't have a problem with the heritage designation if they had time to formulate a plan.

Nonetheless, I'm in favour of the idea of "heritage", but in some cases, I'd rather just let it ride and see what anyone could do with the place without restrictions. It is counterproductive to put so many limitations on a property that hurts a critical block.

Originally Posted by Ando

Now things are getting interesting.

Yes.

I've edited a few posts of mine due to questionable content or metaphors. Thanks to Urban, I henceforth shall not.

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by Wolf13

??

It absolutely would. They all gather in and around the Vendome, who rents out to them and uses them as patrons/clients.

No Vendome, and stricter property management, and they would go elsewhere.

Exactly, they would go elsewhere. Doesn't get rid of the issue. You push them from Fort to where? Portage, Main, to someone else's doorstep.

It's like that plan Saskatchewan had to give all the rif-raf bus tickets to BC. Well hold on a second. Can't just have everyone shipping their rif-raf back and forth. Need to actually solve the issue.

[Wolf13]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Exactly, they would go elsewhere. Doesn't get rid of the issue. You push them from Fort to where? Portage, Main, to someone else's doorstep.

It's like that plan Saskatchewan had to give all the rif-raf bus tickets to BC. Well hold on a second. Can't just have everyone shipping their rif-raf back and forth. Need to actually solve the issue.

How is this not clear? Like, I literally could not be more clear. There are two problems:

1) Homeless/addiction/riff-raff
2) Homeless/addiction/riff-raff at your doorstep

Given the above problems, everyone, any sane person deals with problem #2, which you can directly affect. You deal with #1 later.

Artis, and most landlords, and in fact most anyone person, is rarely involved in a daily journey towards a greater solution and root-cause. Well, they probably donate here or there. They operate a business. On a daily basis the Vendome and its patrons/loiterers cause a problem for their business. Why wouldn't they want to displace the problem? Not to sound mean, but if left with no other choice any landlord would say: "k fine, any other doorstep but mine".

We need to help reduce these issues in a city as citizens. All of us. Not just Landlords. But in the meantime, Artis would probably try to clean up their front lawn. That's logical.

If someone was squatting in your front lawn or if someone was operating a crack house across the street, do you donate to causes or start a march for awareness? No, you get the squatter out of there and alert the authorities of the crackhouse. Then maybe later you address root causes. If my neighbour's kid threw epic ragers all the time, littered my yard with beer cans, and ruined my sleep, would I try to mentor him to be more reponsible and pursue a reponsible future, or counsel him on his daddy issues? Or would I call the cops or parents? After all, all that would happen is they'd party elsewhere.

While there is no guarantee that a clamp-down on the Vendome's daily hustle can help social issues, it would never hurt. If you destabilize a centralized issue, it may regroup elsewhere but likely in a weaker form than before. This is all common sense.

[Urban recluse]

The various agencies mandated to help such people would be involved. There are also people who do not want help.

[buzzg]

While I don't fault Artis for wanting to clean the area around their development up at all (everyone should be allowed to do that), the argument that they'll go somewhere else isn't necessarily true either.

It's no secret that some of the issues with intoxicated people downtown seems to have gotten worse over the last few years. Lots of these places have closed at the same time. Without these places with dirt cheap rent (or ppl paying no rent to be there), many of these people would end up on homeless, or spending more time on the streets — and why would they move far from where they already are?

I'm not saying we should protect or keep these places whatsoever, I'm just saying that a) there's no one "solution" and b) we may see more "riff raff" on the streets if they have nowhere to go into.

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by Urban recluse

It basically needs what the Ashdown Building went through: new windows, the exterior cleaned, etc. As the apparent hub of innovation, this stretch of Adelaide is dreary.

Less this:

https://www.google.ca/maps/@49.8989366,-...1a233NP8zjl4w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

More this:

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.0338641,-...Z6PNBDklk-WQgLqbHwgzw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Once all the East Exchange streetscape improvements finish next year, I would love to see Adelaide get the Rorie treatment: trees on the sidewalks, bump-outs at intersections (one through lane is enough here), benches, art, etc. Maybe even room for a bike lane. A fair bit of development has happened on Adelaide without any real effort from the public sector to make it happen, and it actually has a lot of potential. Making it more attractive/hospitable would pay dividends to attract more development there.

[Urban recluse]

A lot of potential.

[1ajs]

times change is an amazing cultureal institution in our city someone even with family blah blah wanting to help is not loosing money in the long term its an investment in our cities culture its a smart move long term........... guys wtf?

as for inovation ally anouncement hah mts bell only doing gig fiber there u can get gig fiber in most of those buildings allready........ from les.net

[Labroco]

[QUOTE=Urban recluse;7577422]It basically needs what the Ashdown Building went through: new windows, the exterior cleaned, etc. As the apparent hub of innovation, this stretch of Adelaide is dreary.

Less this:

https://www.google.ca/maps/@49.8989366,-...1a233NP8zjl4w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

More this:

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.0338641,-...Z6PNBDklk-WQgLqbHwgzw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656[/QUOT

Well having just come from the Anchor Bar and eaten 2 lbs of Buffalo wings in Buffalo I can safely say to you things are looking up in that town! LOL! While some progress is being made there it's a small town without the diversity of Wpg or a modern highrise CBD. Part of the reason some of their heritage stock is now being absorbed. Hamilton is also starting to turn but that is due to its proximity to Toronto. I know Urban Legend and I disagree on this, but 317 Mcdermot has survived until today is because the owners (Richelieu) had a manufacturing use for the structure as does Nutty Club for their property. There is nothing embarrassing about that at all. I do agree an Ashdown style makeover would be great in the fullness of time.

As for the Veledrome issue, just because it's old does not make it Historic. Buy out the off sale and close the beverage room and the problem disappears. There is nothing wrong with 20 or 30 units of social housing in that location. If they want to demolition perhaps they should be obligated to replace the housing component as is done in places like Toronto. But Please! Let's not hang our hat on the building being historic or save worthy in its own right...

Perhaps a demo permit could be issued only with a building permit in place and a large performance bond held by the city. Also let's stop issuing exceptions for new surface parking lots. I can think of hundreds of new stalls created in the last three years!

[BigG]

Originally Posted by Urban recluse

If he is spending all this money for these buildings with family ties in mind, Hell, I'll blow him to purchase and renovate 317 McDermot; Innovation Alley looks like anything but with this mammoth embarrassment.

Has to be the comment of the week.

[Urban recluse]

[QUOTE=Labroco;7577905]

Originally Posted by Urban recluse

It basically needs what the Ashdown Building went through: new windows, the exterior cleaned, etc. As the apparent hub of innovation, this stretch of Adelaide is dreary.

Less this:

https://www.google.ca/maps/@49.8989366,-...1a233NP8zjl4w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

More this:

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.0338641,-...Z6PNBDklk-WQgLqbHwgzw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656[/QUOT

Well having just come from the Anchor Bar and eaten 2 lbs of Buffalo wings in Buffalo I can safely say to you things are looking up in that town! LOL! While some progress is being made there it's a small town without the diversity of Wpg or a modern highrise CBD. Part of the reason some of their heritage stock is now being absorbed. Hamilton is also starting to turn but that is due to its proximity to Toronto. I know Urban Legend and I disagree on this, but 317 Mcdermot has survived until today is because the owners (Richelieu) had a manufacturing use for the structure as does Nutty Club for their property. There is nothing embarrassing about that at all. I do agree an Ashdown style makeover would be great in the fullness of time.

As for the Veledrome issue, just because it's old does not make it Historic. Buy out the off sale and close the beverage room and the problem disappears. There is nothing wrong with 20 or 30 units of social housing in that location. If they want to demolition perhaps they should be obligated to replace the housing component as is done in places like Toronto. But Please! Let's not hang our hat on the building being historic or save worthy in its own right...

Perhaps a demo permit could be issued only with a building permit in place and a large performance bond held by the city. Also let's stop issuing exceptions for new surface parking lots. I can think of hundreds of new stalls created in the last three years!

Milwaukee. I know it is a larger city, but its numerous streets of redeveloped heritage buildings is inspirational. I have never been to Buffalo, but it too has benefited from using TIF to transform decrepit areas. The reality is so many US cities have redeveloped their downtowns by utilizing this, and for decades. Winnipeg has hardly begun. TIF or other incentives are needed in spades in Winnipeg because a lot of historic buildings remain in a state of disrepair. I would not be surprised if 317 McDermot (which has an overbuilt structural system) is put on the market before long. Richlu has been gradually moving its operations out of the building, and does not want to spend money redeveloping it.

The Vendome could look stunning restored, but if a beautiful new building were to replace it, I would not be upset.