Winnipeg | 300 Main St.- Phase II 360 Main St. | 465 Ft | 42F | Completed

[CoryB]

Albo doesn't exactly have the best record on that stretch of Fort St. They originally bought the Carlton Club with a plan to make it an off site banquet expansion to the Fort Garry Hotel. It took some time for them to put those plans into action and while waiting the Fort Gary Place banquet rooms became available at a price they could not refuse and they moved those plans to the adjoining property. They still owned the Carlton Club building though and came up with a new plan, turning it into a yoga studio. Walking by on the street level though it looks like most of the street facing area is being used as storage or pending some future renovation. As part of the yoga studio plan, then derelict building to the north of the then small surface lot was demolished to enlarge the surface lot.

Albo also seems to have a reputation of slowly renovating the Hotel Fort Gary as funds permitted. An example would be on the main banquet floor of the hotel that was once home to Crystal Casino still has traces of those elements more than 20 years after it closed down. It is one thing to present your property as historic but the Fort Gary is starting to hit some of those notes in the wrong way.

It is nice these properties are being put together under a single developer. Hopefully they can also gain control of the three other properties on the street and do something with the entire west side of that block. Until I see the plans though I think the city should hold off on delisting anything.

[Ando]

Originally Posted by pegcityfan

As awesome as it was that Pollard bought the Fortune Block. Pretty sure he did it to save his brother in law's business. Not because he was in love with the building or on some heritage crusade.

Just because he is interested in his brother-in-law's business, doesn't mean he is going to agree to shell out $5 million and all the time he's going to put in just for that. They are both heritage advocates and supporters. What Pollard has voiced in terms of this enthusiasm for the project goes way beyond in my mind just pandering to family interests. He also would only need to buy the Fortune if he really was just interested in saving Times Changed. He certainly doesn't have to go even further to buy the empty lot and the Winnipeg Hotel. So I think you're being just a little bit cynical.

[Urban recluse]

Originally Posted by CoryB

Albo doesn't exactly have the best record on that stretch of Fort St. They originally bought the Carlton Club with a plan to make it an off site banquet expansion to the Fort Garry Hotel. It took some time for them to put those plans into action and while waiting the Fort Gary Place banquet rooms became available at a price they could not refuse and they moved those plans to the adjoining property. They still owned the Carlton Club building though and came up with a new plan, turning it into a yoga studio. Walking by on the street level though it looks like most of the street facing area is being used as storage or pending some future renovation. As part of the yoga studio plan, then derelict building to the north of the then small surface lot was demolished to enlarge the surface lot.

Albo also seems to have a reputation of slowly renovating the Hotel Fort Gary as funds permitted. An example would be on the main banquet floor of the hotel that was once home to Crystal Casino still has traces of those elements more than 20 years after it closed down. It is one thing to present your property as historic but the Fort Gary is starting to hit some of those notes in the wrong way.

It is nice these properties are being put together under a single developer. Hopefully they can also gain control of the three other properties on the street and do something with the entire west side of that block. Until I see the plans though I think the city should hold off on delisting anything.

Good points. The FG's rooms are in desperate need of renovations. If it was not for Artis Reit's presence, I would dismiss this completely.

[esquire]

^ It would be nice to see Artis REIT get involved with the hotel. It's already in need of another good reno. God bless Albo and Bel for saving HFG and making it nice again, but it would really benefit from a good injection of capital to make it top notch.

[Urban recluse]

It definitely needs deeper pockets.

[pegcityfan]

Originally Posted by Ando

Just because he is interested in his brother-in-law's business, doesn't mean he is going to agree to shell out $5 million and all the time he's going to put in just for that. They are both heritage advocates and supporters. What Pollard has voiced in terms of this enthusiasm for the project goes way beyond in my mind just pandering to family interests. He also would only need to buy the Fortune if he really was just interested in saving Times Changed. He certainly doesn't have to go even further to buy the empty lot and the Winnipeg Hotel. So I think you're being just a little bit cynical.

Trust me. Zero chance he has interest in that building in the first place if his sister in law doesn't marry Scols and the current owner at the time doesn't' try to sell the building to a developper.

[pegcityfan]

Originally Posted by pegcityfan

Trust me. Zero chance he has interest in that building in the first place if his sister in law doesn't marry Scols and the current owner at the time doesn't' try to sell the building to a developper.

That being said, the outcome is great for both a legendary bar and a historic building. Would be incredible if he manages to purchase & update the other two buildings as well as develop the land in between them.

[Wolf13]

Fun fact that nobody seems to be paying attention to:

Artis REIT is the city's biggest heritage landlord. As in owning, operating, preserving, fixing up. They KNOW how much work goes into a heritage building (and most here don't).

So here we have a major dump of a hotel with two problems.

1) It's a dump
2) It's a crack den. At the foot of Portage and Main, and Artis' flagship property.

Why is anyone surprised that Artis would not want heritage designation awarded? It would only prevent anything purposeful from happening to the property and KEEP all that riff raff (that's fun to say) right at their doorstep.

Anyone with a home keeps their driveway clean, and Artis can't because of the Vendome.

Originally Posted by Ando

More heritage bitching by Artis and Albo about the Vendome Hotel designation. They claim that the designation for the "flea bag" hotel could jeopardize future redevelopment of the block, even though they claim to have no plans. Where is Pollard when you need him?

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/heritage-tag-rankles-developers-394907631.html

Pollard is doing a great thing. To assume him and others can whimsically transform any property into a gem repeatedly is misguided. As mentioned, Artis knows what's involved here, and they know that the designation would delay any progress. They have been heritage preservers, not butchers, in the past.

Originally Posted by esquire

^ I am extremely gratified to hear that serious thought is being given to improving Fort Street. It's horrendous how the commercial hub of Winnipeg basically presents as a walled off fortress to Fort Street, with a bunch of parking lots and underutilized buildings on the west side of the street. There is a lot of potential along that block.

That said, what do Bel/Albo/Martens intend to do with the Vendome, assuming that they acquire it? Demolition for a new tower is one thing, demolition for surface parking is quite another. Sounds like they're being a little vague.

They're vague because they probably have ideas and not plans. They'll get around to it sometime soon, but at minimum it gives them control to clean up that mess.

They'd probably give more details if they had them, but there' not crime in not having plans in my opinion. That property is a mess.

Originally Posted by esquire

^ I think we've all had enough of developers demolishing buildings based on vague plans that never materialize. That said, the proponents of this Fort Street thing aren't actually asking to demolish anything yet.

As for my opinion? In a worst case scenario, a surface lot would obviously be a temporary solution that SOLVES BOTH of the problems listed above. Artis isn't a passive landowner by design, so I'm comfortable with a surface lot because in the worst case, we'll see something new in 5 years.

If it can be maintained and cleaned, that's also great, or best case scenario actually. But we have to stop getting in our own way... Anything, including vacant space slated for *someday* development, is better for the street, the city, and nearby developments.

[trueviking]

The thing about getting rid of old hotels is it doesn't get rid of the 'rif raf' who stay in them.

Heritage designation is only a council vote away from being removed. If a real proposal is brought forward I don't think it would stand in their way.

[1ajs]

Originally Posted by trueviking

The thing about getting rid of old hotels is it doesn't get rid of the 'rif raf' who stay in them.

Heritage designation is only a council vote away from being removed. If a real proposal is brought forward I don't think it would stand in their way.

agreed

if we want to change the rift raft problem then as a country we need to deal with it mental health and such

and i doubt artist reit would pull such a stunt they would just buy the damn thing

[buzzg]

Is there not different levels of designation? Like can they not say it can't be completely torn down, but can be heavily modified? ...Or, at least, keep it listed, shut down the hotel, and either come up with a plan to restore or reapply for delisting when there's another plan in place.

[Urban recluse]

There used to be a grading system, not sure if it still exists. Designation is simply a headache for those involved in redeveloping a site, an extra step that delays a plan; not the end of the world, but an annoyance. Yes, if a plan is presented to the city and it satisfies all their needs, they can delist it and grant demolition if necessary.

[Ando]

Originally Posted by Wolf13

Fun fact that nobody seems to be paying attention to:

Artis REIT is the city's biggest heritage landlord. As in owning, operating, preserving, fixing up. They KNOW how much work goes into a heritage building (and most here don't).

So here we have a major dump of a hotel with two problems.

1) It's a dump
2) It's a crack den. At the foot of Portage and Main, and Artis' flagship property.

Why is anyone surprised that Artis would not want heritage designation awarded? It would only prevent anything purposeful from happening to the property and KEEP all that riff raff (that's fun to say) right at their doorstep.

Anyone with a home keeps their driveway clean, and Artis can't because of the Vendome.



Pollard is doing a great thing. To assume him and others can whimsically transform any property into a gem repeatedly is misguided. As mentioned, Artis knows what's involved here, and they know that the designation would delay any progress. They have been heritage preservers, not butchers, in the past.



They're vague because they probably have ideas and not plans. They'll get around to it sometime soon, but at minimum it gives them control to clean up that mess.

They'd probably give more details if they had them, but there' not crime in not having plans in my opinion. That property is a mess.



As for my opinion? In a worst case scenario, a surface lot would obviously be a temporary solution that SOLVES BOTH of the problems listed above. Artis isn't a passive landowner by design, so I'm comfortable with a surface lot because in the worst case, we'll see something new in 5 years.

If it can be maintained and cleaned, that's also great, or best case scenario actually. But we have to stop getting in our own way... Anything, including vacant space slated for *someday* development, is better for the street, the city, and nearby developments.

Whoa! My comment about Pollard was just a throwaway, more flippant than anything. For the record, I am not expecting Pollard to start buying all decrepit properties and redeveloping them. I am merely pointing out that no property is probably more decrepit than Fortune Block was, and if the will and money is there, any property can be transformed back to health. I doubt if the Vendome is in any worse shape than the Fortune Block was. Not to say that demolition by neglect doesn't sometimes work. I'm pretty sure Zaifman is diligently working to ensure that the St. Charles falls or burns down one day.

[Urban recluse]

242 Princess will give the Fortune Block a run for its money.

I think the Vendome could look amazing, appreciating the cost of course.

[h0twired]

Originally Posted by esquire

Which business is his brother in law's? Times Changed?

John Scoles' girlfriend/wife is John Pollard's sister.

[pegcityfan]

Originally Posted by h0twired

John Scoles' girlfriend/wife is John Pollard's sister.

Not true. Both their wives are sisters.

[Urban recluse]

Considering Pollard has also purchased the MacDonald Block, and will spend X number of dollars on that, plus he is moving to purchase the Winnipeg Hotel and empty lot, this appears to be a Hell of a lot more than helping his brother in law out.

[buzzg]

^Agreed recluse. The Vendome has a ton of potential I think. Obviously something would have to be done where the cornice is gone, but it'd be cool to see a new-meets old with this hotel. Also, the fact that it is still operating means that the building itself is at least in decent shape, much better than some others that look to be falling down.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Urban recluse

Considering Pollard has also purchased the MacDonald Block, and will spend X number of dollars on that, plus he is moving to purchase the Winnipeg Hotel and empty lot, this appears to be a Hell of a lot more than helping his brother in law out.

That may be true, but it's unlikely that it would be happening if there wasn't that connection.

Clearly more downtown small businesspeople need to hook up with the siblings of women married to rich dudes.

[Urban recluse]

Well, in any event, I do not care about that; this guy will be spending millions of his own money to transform these buildings, and the appearance of this block of Main will be amazing in the near future. I think it is pathetic that some of you are reaching....