YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[Cage]

Originally Posted by CareerShow

Would anyone else think it feasible for AC to begin flying to Denver and Houston as other US destinations currently unserved?

IAH has a unique history that prevents mainline from flying into the city. When AC restructured through bankruptcy court, the contract with the Teamsters union provided that AC would have incur a huge ground support penalty should mainline aircraft ever return to IAH. Therefore YYZ and YYC services are completed using CRA and E75 aircraft at regional. The bad news for YVR-IAH is that both regional aircraft do not have enough range for the route.

Denver is possible on either mainline or Express. A CRA first thing in the morning would do well for Asian connection bank. The only problem is that do feed the Asian connection bank requires at least 2 daily flights, otherwise its a long overnight connection (or a lot of sitting around time for the aircraft).

[jmt18325]

Originally Posted by CareerShow

Yes however this requires sitting on a Rouge jet for 9ish hours.... Bad seats, bad service, and overall fairly unprofessional.

You're entitled to your opinion, but I sat on a Rouge flight from YYZ to ATH and back, and was pleasantly surprised with the comfort and the service. I'd do it again in a heart beat. My only complaint was the recline of the seats at only 3' - just means I need a better pillow.

[nname]

Originally Posted by CareerShow

Yes however this requires sitting on a Rouge jet for 9ish hours.... Bad seats, bad service, and overall fairly unprofessional.

The service and comfort I got from Rouge was miles ahead of what I got from any US carrier for the past 10 or so years... well save for that DL flight to ATL about 8 years ago, but that might partially due to only having about 50 other passengers on that 757 flight

For some reason, I find the seat from my last UA flight more cramped than Rouge, even though the pitch is officially 1 inch larger (30in vs 29in).

[trofirhen]

I still cannot understand why there is only seasonal Rouge to San Diego. Surely there is a big enough market there for year-round service. Any explanations?

[LeftCoaster]

^^ 99% certain Air Canada has gone to daily CRJs on express. The route is no longer Rouge.

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Don't forget the cap hasn't been reached on the Canadian side. Unfortunately though that does mean the daily flights from YVR, YYZ and YYC to NRT and the daily YYZ-HND and the 6 weekly YVR-KIX now have to be included on the Canadian side. That still leaves about 7 unused frequencies. So I still see NGO in the picture! It just means any of the new flights won't be on JAL or ANA... although I would highly doubt we would see them on routes to KIX or NGO anyway even if there wasn't the cap being reached.

Ahh I keep forgetting cap is 2 way. Including your NGO announcement I guess that leaves 4 flights to Japan and China now from Canada

Still waiting on JAL to bump us up to a 789. Not sure if the route is doing that well but with the better economics of the 789 it shouldn't take much.

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Funny how we were JUST talking about this!

Effective 1 June 2017 Air Canada rouge will launch seasonal three weekly YVR - NGO.

AC1955 YVR 1245 - 1515+1 NGO 246 763
AC1956 NGO 1640 - 0955 YVR 357 763

Fantastic news, well news for us. clearly you were toying with us the entire time.

Will be interesting to see how this effects KIX. I think the region is easily large enough to support 1 daily or more, so 5 or 6 to KIX and 3 to NGO doesn't necessarily seem like too much capacity to me. At this point AC seems to agree, but we'll see if their schedule changes at all in the coming months.

Originally Posted by Cage

Denver is possible on either mainline or Express. A CRA first thing in the morning would do well for Asian connection bank. The only problem is that do feed the Asian connection bank requires at least 2 daily flights, otherwise its a long overnight connection (or a lot of sitting around time for the aircraft).

Well united already sends a flight early morning that ties well to the Asian bank, so maybe Air Canada would be smart to send an evening flight to get connecting PAX home.

[nname]

so you mean Japan+China combined to have 89 weeklies on both sides? Doesn't seems to add up on the Canadian side.

I remember reading the bilateral years ago for Japan/Canada that allows unlimited frequency and beyond right from Tokyo/Vancouver. I wonder what happened to that...

Either way, more frequency is more likely to approve if AC had used all of them up too, which... might happen before the next talk?

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

^^ 99% certain Air Canada has gone to daily CRJs on express. The route is no longer Rouge.



Ahh I keep forgetting cap is 2 way. Including your NGO announcement I guess that leaves 4 flights to Japan and China now from Canada

Still waiting on JAL to bump us up to a 789. Not sure if the route is doing that well but with the better economics of the 789 it shouldn't take much.



Fantastic news, well news for us. clearly you were toying with us the entire time.

Will be interesting to see how this effects KIX. I think the region is easily large enough to support 1 daily or more, so 5 or 6 to KIX and 3 to NGO doesn't necessarily seem like too much capacity to me. At this point AC seems to agree, but we'll see if their schedule changes at all in the coming months.



Well united already sends a flight early morning that ties well to the Asian bank, so maybe Air Canada would be smart to send an evening flight to get connecting PAX home.

To avoid any further confusion with multi-topic replies I'll reply in a bullet format.

1) I am 100% certain! Yes SAN will become daily Jazz CRA year round starting in December. It's still scheduled as Jazz next summer so assuming it has been permanently de-rouged. Wouldn't surprise me at all if this goes double daily Jazz or they add a daily flight to Fresno as well. Despite the quote from the classic Airplane! "Fresno!? Nobody goes to Fresno anymore!" I beg to differ.

2) I think the cap has now been reformulated due to the Japan/China tie up. Neither country thought it was fair that the cap would be based on combined country frequencies. Even though China negotiates on Japan's behalf the cap to China remains at 76 flights per week only. Japan remains open skies so that solves that conundrum.

3) ah yes JAL.... seems to be the ONLY route from YVR that hasn't seen a bump in capacity for years. Perhaps 2017 is the year to go 789?

4) My understanding is that KIX has performed very well for AC rouge. I don't think there is a plan to reduce frequencies. I am unaware anyway. The NGO flights are a pure gain to the region. Despite their close proximity, the entire Osaka, Kobe, Kyoto, Nagoya region is a very densely populated area of around 30 million people.

5) I think AC will leave DEN up to UA for now. Three daily in summer, twice daily in winter. Colorado Springs on the other hand..... as friends in Denver call it... the other airport just down the road. Very underserved airport, therefore, clearly in need of more flights!

[Denscity]

Gucci has now opened in the International Departures area.

[nname]

if Japan remains open skies, then Canada should have 41 weeklies left to China.. or its only one-sided

[CareerShow]

Ive been on rouge a few times, once from Venice to Toronto, once to Palm Springs, and some people i know to Cuba from Toronto I believe. Each time consistent feedback has been bad service, unprofessional undertrained staff, and terrible seat pitch and width as well as legroom. I have found UA far more comfortable than rouge and would actually fly around Rouge.

[CareerShow]

Also anyone have any idea how JAL does with their very sparse seating on 787 aircraft. Only 165 on certain 789 and 195 on 789, some airlines jam as many seats onto narrow body aircraft. Can anyone comment on how much more comfortable, if indeed it is more comfortable, these aircraft are over other carriers?

[excel]

JAL's 787 is the only 787 I've been on so I can't compare it but I can say it sure was the most comfortable aircraft I have ever flown on. Great service as well. Food was above average but not great.

[Johnny Aussie]

Daily year-round 787-9 effective 8 June 2017

http://aircanada.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=1064

Can't find any flight info yet... Will update when I can.

The NGO service is included in this announcement.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Funny how we were JUST talking about this!

Effective 1 June 2017 Air Canada rouge will launch seasonal three weekly YVR - NGO.

AC1955 YVR 1245 - 1515+1 NGO 246 763
AC1956 NGO 1640 - 0955 YVR 357 763

Effective July 31 the route increases to 4 weekly

AC1955 YVR 1245 - 1515+1 NGO 1246 763
AC1956 NGO 1640 - 0955 YVR 2357 763

[Orcair]

Originally Posted by CareerShow

Also anyone have any idea how JAL does with their very sparse seating on 787 aircraft. Only 165 on certain 789 and 195 on 789, some airlines jam as many seats onto narrow body aircraft. Can anyone comment on how much more comfortable, if indeed it is more comfortable, these aircraft are over other carriers?

Way more comfortable than AC in Y, but I like AC's pods better than the JL staggered J. But then again, having 8-abreast in Y on JAL vs. 9-abreast on every other carrier will do that - their seats are (iirc) an inch wider and have 34" seat pitch vs. 31" on AC.

[Gordon]

Nice to se air canada continuing to build their Vancouver Hub.
YVR an has always been a difficult route for some reason, both AC & alaska have tried it ub successfully over the years. yet Ws has had a fair bit of success with their Orange county route.

It would be great if West Jet would make its YVR SFO route year around?

[Hourglass]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Daily year-round 787-9 effective 8 June 2017

http://aircanada.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=1064

Can't find any flight info yet... Will update when I can.

The NGO service is included in this announcement.

Wow, a bit surprised by daily TPE as I understand it'a a pretty low-yield route. Wonder if they'll codeshare with BR?

AC really growing YVR!

[Jebby]

Originally Posted by CareerShow

Also anyone have any idea how JAL does with their very sparse seating on 787 aircraft. Only 165 on certain 789 and 195 on 789, some airlines jam as many seats onto narrow body aircraft. Can anyone comment on how much more comfortable, if indeed it is more comfortable, these aircraft are over other carriers?

Wow, I just looked it up and JAL has 161 or 186 seats on their 788s and 195 on their 789s. They actually have more seats on some of their 737-800s (165) than their least dense 788s!!

Compare that to AeroMexico which has 243 on their 788s and 263 on their 789s.

[mezzanine]

Wow! Good to see NGO, a little surprised to see TPE on AC. Didn't see that on the radar. EVA Air (BR) already has a daily red eye from YVR to arrive in TPE early in the AM. The service is really good and it arrives first thing in the AM in TPE to connect well to BR's network to SE asia. The 747 it flies is old, but serviceable and will be inevitably be replaced by something newer.

AC's service has a niche as I suspect AC wants to get NA transfer traffic to TPE/Taiwan, while BR is getting people going onwards to its SE asian network. BR already serves ORD, YYZ, IAH, the west coast, YYZ and NY, so it would be interesting to see what traffic AC gets.

I think it should do well as I was wondering why BR upped its service to SEA with a mid-day flight but not YVR and I suppose this is why. IF AC is mid-day it should get a lot of AC connecting traffic.

[mezzanine]

And is getting mainline versus rouge going to be a thing now?