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  #6281  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2016, 7:21 PM
Korey Korey is offline
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Yeah Sacramento is suffering from a crazy under supply situation. When you look at our GDP, population, and rent/housing price increases in the past few years compared with the amount of units coming online it's staggering.

http://www.rentcafe.com/blog/rental-mark...nits-up-a-staggering-50-percent-in-2016/

I too hope that local developers (except Petrovich lol) get a lions share of the profits. It seems like so far they have but that might be because they are the only ones willing to build in our market. It's encouraging how biased the supply is towards infill and the core, but overall we need to be building a ton more in order to not fall into the bay area trap of high COL keeping people away.
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  #6282  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2016, 7:59 PM
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I think this chart says it all to show how out of whack construction is vs demand. Also, even though the forecast says 8.8% growth, it's actually over 11% at the number one spot. As far as job growth and population growth, its not that much different than the rest although the median incomes will be different.

EDIT: I would be a little less concerned if we had a flurry on construction planned for next year, but we don't. We have whole foods midrise starting soon, Doco tower, 700k, and what else? Thats around what, 300-400 units? Could 2017 be even less than 2016?

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  #6283  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2016, 8:50 PM
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Well Creamery would be another and the new, albeit affordable, housing going up on 7th and Hish. Ice Blocks of course is another and rumor is the block adjacent along S St. will have proposed housing soon too.

Any word on all the development that is supposed to occur on Q St from 19th to 21st street, especially the project across from the Bee? Or the 2nd phase of development at Township 9--shouldn't the townhomes be starting soon?

I really hope between the above mentioned and adding in additional riverfront housing proposed in West Sac, the midrise proposed at 15 and Q, the mini apartments proposed at 19 and J, the highrise at J and 25th, and the smaller building at K and 22nd(?) we see a big 2017. Even if a handful of these break ground.

Also, what is the unit amount for the newly opened apartments above the old Pyramid brewery? Prob not much but it's along K St! Oh I'm sorry I mean "The Kay"
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  #6284  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2016, 9:19 PM
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Well Creamery would be another and the new, albeit affordable, housing going up on 7th and Hish. Ice Blocks of course is another and rumor is the block adjacent along S St. will have proposed housing soon too.

Any word on all the development that is supposed to occur on Q St from 19th to 21st street, especially the project across from the Bee? Or the 2nd phase of development at Township 9--shouldn't the townhomes be starting soon?

I really hope between the above mentioned and adding in additional riverfront housing proposed in West Sac, the midrise proposed at 15 and Q, the mini apartments proposed at 19 and J, the highrise at J and 25th, and the smaller building at K and 22nd(?) we see a big 2017. Even if a handful of these break ground.

Also, what is the unit amount for the newly opened apartments above the old Pyramid brewery? Prob not much but it's along K St! Oh I'm sorry I mean "The Kay"
Good question about Township 9, that entire area has been dormant after those apartments were completed over there a few years ago. It's no mystery why the green line has low ridership, it light rail to no where (right now).

Yes I forgot that Q street development along with the sacbee parking garage development. I forget about these projects because I hear about them once in a article then nothing for months (sometimes years). I wish I knew some developers personally to figure out what is going between proposal and construction so I'd know what the hold up is or why these projects don't pencil out. Sacramento in a lot of cases has higher median income and higher rents than places that have much more construction boom than us. Sadly the only construction boom here since I have been alive was solely in the suburbs.
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  #6285  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2016, 12:06 AM
urbanadvocate urbanadvocate is offline
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I know they aren't in the downtown/midtown core but what are the forecasted totals for the expected new units arising from the McKinley Village, The Mills (assuming more unites are being added), Curtis Park Village and the Park Moderns in West Sac in 2017? Not sure that info is even available.
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  #6286  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2016, 12:52 AM
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Just out of curiosity I took a look at San Francisco's housing growth since 2010, and it looks like they have added a net of about 9-10,000 units (demolishing 1500 or so existing units in the process), in a city of 49 square miles. That adds up to about 34 units of housing, per year, per square mile. The 1400 units in the central city, less than a tenth the size of San Francisco and half as dense, means about 45 new units of housing, per year, per square mile. So for those of us living in the central city, we have seen a level of development intensity comparable to San Francisco over the past five years--but if you lived outside the grid, you probably missed out on it--unless, of course, you lived in West Sacramento, which is also seeing plenty of new housing, primarily along its waterfront. Which goes a long way to explain why folks who don't live downtown still seem convinced that there is nothing happening around here. From their perspective, there isn't any housing growth going on in their backyard, so unless they happen to visit Midtown during the day, they won't see the flurry of construction sites big and small throughout the city.

The root of the problem, I think, is that while prices are rocketing upward here, they still aren't as high as they are in the Bay Area, but salaries are not rocketing upward, so people aren't as willing to pay those higher prices. So building more in the Bay Area is still more profitable, despite its difficulties and pitfalls (if you think building is hard in Sacramento, you haven't tried building in San Francisco), and there is still a big pile of money floating around there. Unless salaries in Sacramento go up radically, and the Bay Area housing bubble continues, don't expect absurd growth levels anytime soon. And it seems like the marketing coming from Sacramento aimed at Bay Area residents is focused on our big suburban backyards, uncrowded freeways, and low prices, so we're probably not getting a lot of people looking for a more urban setting.

The goal of 10,000 housing units in the central city (or rather what the Mayor calls "the toast"--grid/Railyards/Richards) came up last year, they're still working on the final plan but the clock for that is supposed to start ticking this year--it's a goal to shoot for, not sure if we'll make it especially if things turn south, but I think we will see a good chunk of it, especially if residential starts going in the Railyards and Township 9. The big challenge will be the 4000 units that are supposed to be affordable, including 1500 for folks currently homeless, considering that our new affordable housing policy will produce almost no affordable housing--the "in lieu" fee is very low, the amount of affordable housing required is lower, and if you're doing housing over 40 units/acre you don't have to provide any affordable component or in-lieu fee, which includes most central city housing. The Railyards is obligated to produce about 300 units of affordable housing out of 6-10,000 projected units. That being said, there are a couple of affordable units underway, so it's not all totally bleak. But, as with suburban development, I expect much of that 4000 units of affordable housing to be explained away in a few years.

The affordable building at 7th & H (an SRO replacement) was completed a few years ago. CADA is moving forward to buy a half-block south of Ice Blocks for affordable housing, and has plans for another affordable unit next to the Presbyterian cathedral on N Street. The three projects SKK has lined up between 19th-21st on Q Street will add up to about 500 units just by themselves, but all are approved. They're digging up dirt at 21st and Q right now, presumably doing site prep for the townhomes. The apartments at 19th and Q were approved first but for some reason those are taking longer. The big one on the parking garage will most likely be last, but that's 300 units just by itself.

The MAY Building is 21 apartments. The Bel-Vue building on 8th Street should be part of a new project, that will be another 20 or so apartments. Every little bit helps, especially if there are a lot of little bits, and both of those buildings combined will provide as much new housing as DoCo.

McKinley Village will be something like 250 units, the Mill at Broadway will be about 1000. Not sure about CPV and Park Moderns. Aside from a few corridors, infill outside the central city is limited by the low-density zoning of most of the surrounding neighborhoods. But these "grid-adjacent" projects are growing in number, along with some smaller infill projects like some units finishing up at Alhambra and I Street, so I'd expect to see a few more like that...and, most likely, a whole lot of new greenfield single-family sprawl on the urban perimeter. Part of why we haven't seen much new housing growth is because it took years for the market to absorb all of the vacant housing built during the housing bubble, but it's pretty much soaked up by now. So expect for-sale signs to pop up in Northern North Natomas real soon now!

You don't know any of the local developers, Majin? I'm surprised, most are pretty approachable folks and it's not hard to meet them if you go to commission meetings or community meetings about these projects. Since you're so interested in the subject, it's pretty surprising if you don't attend them!
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  #6287  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2016, 4:41 AM
Pistola916 Pistola916 is offline
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Aren't the Kings own and are planning to develop the 800K with mid-rise housing? That's something I'm curious about.
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  #6288  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2016, 3:20 PM
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Aren't the Kings own and are planning to develop the 800K with mid-rise housing? That's something I'm curious about.
No, it was going to be one of the city owned lots given to the Kings but wasn't, however they get first right of refusal for projects proposed there. Not sure what's happening with the proposal for the midrise hole in the ground, but the Bel-Vue is moving forward with housing.
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  #6289  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2016, 3:24 PM
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Originally Posted by wburg View Post
Just out of curiosity I took a look at San Francisco's housing growth since 2010, and it looks like they have added a net of about 9-10,000 units (demolishing 1500 or so existing units in the process), in a city of 49 square miles. That adds up to about 34 units of housing, per year, per square mile. The 1400 units in the central city, less than a tenth the size of San Francisco and half as dense, means about 45 new units of housing, per year, per square mile. So for those of us living in the central city, we have seen a level of development intensity comparable to San Francisco over the past five years--but if you lived outside the grid, you probably missed out on it--unless, of course, you lived in West Sacramento, which is also seeing plenty of new housing, primarily along its waterfront. Which goes a long way to explain why folks who don't live downtown still seem convinced that there is nothing happening around here. From their perspective, there isn't any housing growth going on in their backyard, so unless they happen to visit Midtown during the day, they won't see the flurry of construction sites big and small throughout the city.

The root of the problem, I think, is that while prices are rocketing upward here, they still aren't as high as they are in the Bay Area, but salaries are not rocketing upward, so people aren't as willing to pay those higher prices. So building more in the Bay Area is still more profitable, despite its difficulties and pitfalls (if you think building is hard in Sacramento, you haven't tried building in San Francisco), and there is still a big pile of money floating around there. Unless salaries in Sacramento go up radically, and the Bay Area housing bubble continues, don't expect absurd growth levels anytime soon. And it seems like the marketing coming from Sacramento aimed at Bay Area residents is focused on our big suburban backyards, uncrowded freeways, and low prices, so we're probably not getting a lot of people looking for a more urban setting.

The goal of 10,000 housing units in the central city (or rather what the Mayor calls "the toast"--grid/Railyards/Richards) came up last year, they're still working on the final plan but the clock for that is supposed to start ticking this year--it's a goal to shoot for, not sure if we'll make it especially if things turn south, but I think we will see a good chunk of it, especially if residential starts going in the Railyards and Township 9. The big challenge will be the 4000 units that are supposed to be affordable, including 1500 for folks currently homeless, considering that our new affordable housing policy will produce almost no affordable housing--the "in lieu" fee is very low, the amount of affordable housing required is lower, and if you're doing housing over 40 units/acre you don't have to provide any affordable component or in-lieu fee, which includes most central city housing. The Railyards is obligated to produce about 300 units of affordable housing out of 6-10,000 projected units. That being said, there are a couple of affordable units underway, so it's not all totally bleak. But, as with suburban development, I expect much of that 4000 units of affordable housing to be explained away in a few years.

The affordable building at 7th & H (an SRO replacement) was completed a few years ago. CADA is moving forward to buy a half-block south of Ice Blocks for affordable housing, and has plans for another affordable unit next to the Presbyterian cathedral on N Street. The three projects SKK has lined up between 19th-21st on Q Street will add up to about 500 units just by themselves, but all are approved. They're digging up dirt at 21st and Q right now, presumably doing site prep for the townhomes. The apartments at 19th and Q were approved first but for some reason those are taking longer. The big one on the parking garage will most likely be last, but that's 300 units just by itself.

The MAY Building is 21 apartments. The Bel-Vue building on 8th Street should be part of a new project, that will be another 20 or so apartments. Every little bit helps, especially if there are a lot of little bits, and both of those buildings combined will provide as much new housing as DoCo.

McKinley Village will be something like 250 units, the Mill at Broadway will be about 1000. Not sure about CPV and Park Moderns. Aside from a few corridors, infill outside the central city is limited by the low-density zoning of most of the surrounding neighborhoods. But these "grid-adjacent" projects are growing in number, along with some smaller infill projects like some units finishing up at Alhambra and I Street, so I'd expect to see a few more like that...and, most likely, a whole lot of new greenfield single-family sprawl on the urban perimeter. Part of why we haven't seen much new housing growth is because it took years for the market to absorb all of the vacant housing built during the housing bubble, but it's pretty much soaked up by now. So expect for-sale signs to pop up in Northern North Natomas real soon now!

You don't know any of the local developers, Majin? I'm surprised, most are pretty approachable folks and it's not hard to meet them if you go to commission meetings or community meetings about these projects. Since you're so interested in the subject, it's pretty surprising if you don't attend them!
This is very good information and a nice summation of what's going down, up there. I can only speak for myself, but the reason I'm wound up so tight about Sacramento development is that I remember the disappointment of 10 years ago. It still hurts. The economy hit me so hard, I finally had to pull up stakes and move to LA. I sure miss Sacramento, but jobs up there still aren't plentiful enough or pay enough to justify a move back - especially with skyrocketing housing costs.

For those of us who can only appreciate things from afar, it helps to have consistent updates and pictures. This forum used to be hopping...not anymore. Maybe a new generation of folks and those who remain can help us out a little.
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Last edited by snfenoc; Sep 23, 2016 at 4:19 PM.
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  #6290  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2016, 5:53 PM
Korey Korey is offline
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Don't have a bizjournal subscription but it looks like something is going to happen with the block of J between 10 and 11. Which reminds me, I saw they took down the Fred Mayes clock a while back...what happened with it? I always enjoyed the original, although was kinda disappointing when they fixed it up and covered the base in blah concrete or steel or whatever.
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Old Posted Sep 23, 2016, 7:04 PM
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To answer your question:

EXCLUSIVE: Blighted J Street block to see renovation project
Sep 23, 2016, 7:12am PDT

Ben van der Meer
Staff Writer
Sacramento Business Journal
http://www.bizjournals.com/sacramento/news/2016/09/23/exclusive-blighted-j-street-block-to-see.html

Quote:
Plans are underway to put a new shine on one of downtown Sacramento’s most blighted blocks.

City planners are processing an application to renovate the building at 1012 J St. to make the first floor and basement ready for retail use, and convert the second floor into apartments....
It's not a big project. It's one of those small pieces that wburg is talking about. Basically, it's a remodel to add a couple retail tenants (bar or restaurant) to the basement and 1st floors. The second floor would be converted to TWO apartments. Not spectacular, but I still like it. Considering how long that block has been derelict, it's a start.

Hopefully, it'll trigger other developments. Even if none of them are large, it's time for that block to start looking better
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  #6292  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2016, 7:59 PM
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Don't have a bizjournal subscription but it looks like something is going to happen with the block of J between 10 and 11. Which reminds me, I saw they took down the Fred Mayes clock a while back...what happened with it? I always enjoyed the original, although was kinda disappointing when they fixed it up and covered the base in blah concrete or steel or whatever.
The clock broke down again, so it is being repaired. The base was covered with a reproduction of the cover that used to be on the base of the clock when it was first moved to J Street (it was originally on K Street, the clock part looked like a watch and it didn't have neon yet.) It will return.
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  #6293  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2016, 8:27 PM
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Originally Posted by snfenoc View Post
To answer your question:

EXCLUSIVE: Blighted J Street block to see renovation project
Sep 23, 2016, 7:12am PDT

Ben van der Meer
Staff Writer
Sacramento Business Journal
http://www.bizjournals.com/sacramento/news/2016/09/23/exclusive-blighted-j-street-block-to-see.html

It's not a big project. It's one of those small pieces that wburg is talking about. Basically, it's a remodel to add a couple retail tenants (bar or restaurant) to the basement and 1st floors. The second floor would be converted to TWO apartments. Not spectacular, but I still like it. Considering how long that block has been derelict, it's a start.

Hopefully, it'll trigger other developments. Even if none of them are large, it's time for that block to start looking better
Yeah, that's the ugly little pink one, which I think doesn't even go back to the alley from what you can see on aerial shots. Goo that something is happening on that stretch though.

Walked by the townhomes site on 20th Street earlier and they were doing a lot of earthwork. Banners with the website were up too: https://20pqr.com/
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  #6294  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2016, 5:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snfenoc View Post
To answer your question:

EXCLUSIVE: Blighted J Street block to see renovation project
Sep 23, 2016, 7:12am PDT

Ben van der Meer
Staff Writer
Sacramento Business Journal
http://www.bizjournals.com/sacramento/news/2016/09/23/exclusive-blighted-j-street-block-to-see.html



It's not a big project. It's one of those small pieces that wburg is talking about. Basically, it's a remodel to add a couple retail tenants (bar or restaurant) to the basement and 1st floors. The second floor would be converted to TWO apartments. Not spectacular, but I still like it. Considering how long that block has been derelict, it's a start.

Hopefully, it'll trigger other developments. Even if none of them are large, it's time for that block to start looking better

Is this the same block where the Cathedral Square condo tower (Cordano Company) was supposed to go a few years ago, or am I thinking of somewhere else?
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  #6295  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2016, 6:28 PM
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Not sure about CPV and Park Moderns.
In regard to West Sac:

-"Phase 2" of the Park Moderns will be an additional 21 units and I've heard should be ready for move-in early next year.

http://www.moderns-tbd.com/Moderns-on-Eames-Walk/


- Fulcrum's next TBD project after that will be another apartment building "complex" with 55 units adjacent to the Rivermark building at Bridge and Central Street. Deisgn review approved 4/2016.

https://www.cityofwestsacramento.org/civica/filebank/blobdload.asp?BlobID=13191


- West Gateway Place will be 77 affordable units and looks like it's just about done. According to the website, pre-leasing should start soon with move-in early next year.

https://www.jamboreehousing.com/affordab...ist/west-gateway-place?vwr-type=resident


- The Good Project, 27 for-sale units, under construction.

http://www.thegoodproject916.com


- Riveredge mixed-use building with 273 units. Not sure of the status of this one.

https://www.cityofwestsacramento.org/civica/filebank/blobdload.asp?BlobID=12591



That's around ~450 units on this side of the River.
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  #6296  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2016, 4:26 AM
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Is this the same block where the Cathedral Square condo tower (Cordano Company) was supposed to go a few years ago, or am I thinking of somewhere else?
The block is one in the same. This project would actually be right next door to Cathedral Square if it were built.
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Old Posted Sep 27, 2016, 7:41 PM
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The Riveredge in West Sacramento is fully entitled. They might even break ground before the end of the year.
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  #6298  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2016, 10:07 PM
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All the townhomes along railroad tracks on 20th and Q have started construction. That was just the first phase of a much larger project. Good news!!
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Old Posted Sep 27, 2016, 11:03 PM
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Condos complete on 16th street.



New Apartments going up on K street and 7th.



Townhomes starting construction on 20th and Q

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Old Posted Sep 28, 2016, 4:42 PM
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Is it just me or are the 7th and K apartments going really slow?
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