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  #7541  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2016, 12:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Marvland View Post
But we have almost 3 million square feet of office, 3 million sf of industrial under construction with a one year apartment delivery that equals the last five years in Denver with 12,000 units (read that number again) in the soft pipeline. The change is happening right under our noses.
Marvland, would you clarify those apartment numbers? I'm not understanding what you're trying to say there.
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  #7542  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2016, 5:43 PM
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Originally Posted by DenverInfill View Post
Marvland, would you clarify those apartment numbers? I'm not understanding what you're trying to say there.
Apartments under some known phase of entitlement. This is median between CBRE and Numark GE numbers.
     
     
  #7543  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2016, 7:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvland
with a one year apartment delivery that equals the last five years in Denver with 12,000 units (read that number again) in the soft pipeline.
This is the part specifically that could use some clarification - source?
     
     
  #7544  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2016, 4:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Marvland:

"...with a one year apartment delivery that equals the last five years in Denver with 12,000 units (read that number again) in the soft pipeline."

Quote:
Originally Posted by CPVLIVE View Post
This is the part specifically that could use some clarification - source?
What is the "last five years in Denver" number you are citing, the geographic extent for that number (Denver city proper, MSA, or CSA) and the specific source(s)? Please provide links.

What is the "one year apartment delivery" number that is supposedly equal to the Denver number, the geographic extent for that number (SLC city proper, MSA, or CSA) and the specific source(s)? Please provide links.

What is your source for the 12,000 in soft pipeline number and again, the geographic extent for that?

Thanks!
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  #7545  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2016, 9:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DenverInfill View Post
Originally Posted by Marvland:

"...with a one year apartment delivery that equals the last five years in Denver with 12,000 units (read that number again) in the soft pipeline."



What is the "last five years in Denver" number you are citing, the geographic extent for that number (Denver city proper, MSA, or CSA) and the specific source(s)? Please provide links.

What is the "one year apartment delivery" number that is supposedly equal to the Denver number, the geographic extent for that number (SLC city proper, MSA, or CSA) and the specific source(s)? Please provide links.

What is your source for the 12,000 in soft pipeline number and again, the geographic extent for that?

Thanks!
Well the Denver number I provided was really just a sloppy "click through a few things and post" move with no real logic there except I though it was an interesting thing. Looking deeper at 2016 numbers, Denvers numbers are way bigger than that. At a quick glance it looks like about 6500-7000 units delivered in the last year or so in the CSA. I think what Denver is doing in its core is pretty incredible and I know 2016 deliveries where record setting, although your vacancy rates are high at 6%. That's probably a temporary reflection of the huge year Denver is in the middle of and the massive rent rate bumps (10% WO!) you're seeing.

In this discussion I'm talking about the CSA or what most people would call the Wasatch Front. Salt Lake City CSA is unique in that the apartment market was severely under-built since the last boom 30 years ago, setting the baseline very low. Much of the pipeline info that we reference comes from guys like Jeff Neese of Western States Multifamily, who is Hud's main appraiser for the region, from city building departments and brokerage data mining. So, taking this all with appropriate grains of salt; here is CBRE, who pegs our total pipeline including potential starts at nearly 22,000 units:

“Units under construction along the Wasatch Front total 9,530. Another 12,219 units have been identified as potential starts. This will greatly help the pent-up demand.”

Here is Equimark (RIP, I really liked Equimark's methodology) pegging it at about the same:

"Nearly 4,839 apartments are under construction in Salt Lake County alone and work will start on an additional 6,484 units in the next 18 months. Together, those new dwellings amount to about 10 percent of Salt Lake County's existing inventory of 120,389 multifamily rental units. Another 9,944 apartments are either planned or under construction across Davis, Utah and Weber counties, EquiMark said. Researchers documented 122 apartment projects being built or proposed across the four-county area, each with scores to hundreds of units apiece."

The "potential start" numbers need to be weighed against reality of course, but I know individual middle level apartment guys in Salt Lake City who have 750 to 1000 new units in their 18 month personal pipelines. Our market vacancy is 4.5% on paper but most A buildings are 98.5-100% occupied. It is not uncommon for new build to be 90-95% leased by C of O. We all love to bitch a bit over here because we're not getting the towers going just yet and I'm one of the worst offenders. But once you dig into the numbers a bit it's a frenzy out there.

Last edited by Marvland; Sep 26, 2016 at 9:59 AM.
     
     
  #7546  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2016, 3:33 PM
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There is equipment on site and it appears that the old storage units are vacant and ready for demolition on the AC Hotel and Apartment site. That is great news for the area. With the Paragon Station, Paperbox, and AC this will be some great new development and addition of residential to this area. Now if we could just get RWP redeveloped already.
     
     
  #7547  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2016, 5:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajiuO View Post
I really hope the don't use green seats again... a new color would help to show some sort of change has happened.
Agree. They mentioned redoing all the seats, but don't seem to have a color yet. What would be preferred? Based on current colors we have navy blue and dark yellow available. Purple would be cool, but that's not an official color anymore.

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  #7548  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2016, 6:49 PM
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Agree. They mentioned redoing all the seats, but don't seem to have a color yet. What would be preferred? Based on current colors we have navy blue and dark yellow available. Purple would be cool, but that's not an official color anymore.

I say have the majority of the seat be either Blue or Green, but have one side say Utah and the other say Jazz, in the other colors and put the note on the two ends. Something along those lines. After all, as has been pointed out, the main purpose of the arena is to be home of the Jazz, so let's customize it. Yes Similar to Rio Tinto stadiuam saying REAL SALT LAKE in white letters outlined by red.

Then we'd get the annoying soccer fans saying, you guys totally copied us, blah blah blah, soccer is the best, blah blah blah. Like they were the the first ones to ever do that with the chairs.
     
     
  #7549  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2016, 9:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyAnderson View Post
Agree. They mentioned redoing all the seats, but don't seem to have a color yet. What would be preferred? Based on current colors we have navy blue and dark yellow available. Purple would be cool, but that's not an official color anymore.

Majority blue
gold green and white stripe around the bowl

     
     
  #7550  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2016, 10:18 PM
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NBA teams generally like to go with a darker color due to it masking empty seats on television. Back when Miami built its new arena, its seats were a bright yellow and orange to look like flames





Problem was, on television, it stood out - a lot - when the arena wasn't to capacity.

So, now it's a bit darker and the empty seats don't stand out as much.

That's not to say it can't work - the Boston Celtics have yellow seats. But I bet they go with a darker color. It looks better all around.
     
     
  #7551  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2016, 7:21 PM
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Good watch. Seems like something SLC is prime for.

https://youtu.be/ZORzsubQA_M
     
     
  #7552  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2016, 8:26 PM
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Originally Posted by ThePusherMan View Post
Good watch. Seems like something SLC is prime for.

https://youtu.be/ZORzsubQA_M
I agree. I have seen several on here propose similar midblock corridors but with so many landowners, it would be tougher to do in the existing built up blocks. I am hopeful that the LDS parking blocks will be laid out in this manner since we don't need more roads for sure downtown.
     
     
  #7553  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2016, 8:52 PM
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  #7554  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2016, 9:37 PM
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Im starting to get worried that an influx of affordable housing is going to adversely affect the middle class. Im worried about the situation becoming so where it is very easy for low income people to live in nice downtown apartments, and obviously its always possible for higher income people. But what about middle income people? I've noticed that apartments who offer income restricted housing jack the rents rates up for the normal income renters. I think they do this because it allows them to get more subsidies from the government. This also drives up the rates of competitive apartments.

So the people with low incomes get nice apartments and the middle class get shafted. They end up getting crappy apartments because they cant afford the ones that those with a lower incomes can because of subsidies. The middle class also ends up paying the price of jacked up rent rates just so these apartment owners can take advantage and bank off of the subsidies.

I think we need to change the situation to where the apartment owners are not involved. We could either give low income peopl tax breaks or have the government just pay a set amount regardless of where they live... this way peopl would have to shop for apartments just like the rest of us... competition genrely drives prices down...

Just myth 2 cents.
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  #7555  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2016, 2:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajiuO View Post
Im starting to get worried that an influx of affordable housing is going to adversely affect the middle class. Im worried about the situation becoming so where it is very easy for low income people to live in nice downtown apartments, and obviously its always possible for higher income people. But what about middle income people? I've noticed that apartments who offer income restricted housing jack the rents rates up for the normal income renters. I think they do this because it allows them to get more subsidies from the government. This also drives up the rates of competitive apartments.

So the people with low incomes get nice apartments and the middle class get shafted. They end up getting crappy apartments because they cant afford the ones that those with a lower incomes can because of subsidies. The middle class also ends up paying the price of jacked up rent rates just so these apartment owners can take advantage and bank off of the subsidies.

I think we need to change the situation to where the apartment owners are not involved. We could either give low income peopl tax breaks or have the government just pay a set amount regardless of where they live... this way peopl would have to shop for apartments just like the rest of us... competition genrely drives prices down...

Just myth 2 cents.
I think we need to get rid of all managed subsidies to the poor and replace it all with a guaranteed basic income. The current situation is inefficient on both ends, creates warped incentives, and doesn't really seem to accomplish the goals these programs were set up for. A GBI seems like a much better solution to me.
     
     
  #7556  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2016, 3:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liberty Wellsian View Post
I think we need to get rid of all managed subsidies to the poor and replace it all with a guaranteed basic income. The current situation is inefficient on both ends, creates warped incentives, and doesn't really seem to accomplish the goals these programs were set up for. A GBI seems like a much better solution to me.
I agree completely.
     
     
  #7557  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2016, 4:53 AM
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I had to come back to add that I'm not a Marxist liberal Bernie bro nutter. I'm more of a Proudhonian Anarcho-libertarian Gary Johnson nutter. Here are a few links from Cato and the WSJ that argue for a GBI.

http://www.cato-unbound.org/2014/08/04/m...-libertarian-case-basic-income-guarantee

http://www.wsj.com/articles/a-guaranteed-income-for-every-american-1464969586

http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/gary-johnson-is-open-to-universal-basic-income/

http://www.libertarianism.org/columns/libertarian-case-basic-income
     
     
  #7558  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2016, 5:07 AM
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144 S 500 E
Salt Lake City UT 841111907

Fifth East Mixed-Use Planned Development
Planned development request for new mixed-use building including commercial and residential at 144-148 S. 500 E.

renderings at the link below:

https://aca.slcgov.com/Citizen/Cap/CapDe...58&agencyCode=SLCREF&IsToShowInspection=
     
     
  #7559  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2016, 5:09 AM
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343 S DENVER St
Salt Lake City UT 841113002

Record PLNSUB2016-00756:
Subdivision and Condominium - Planned Dev - Conditional Use

Denver Street Apartments PD
Planned development request for a new apartment building


renderings at the link below:
https://aca.slcgov.com/Citizen/Cap/CapDe...61&agencyCode=SLCREF&IsToShowInspection=
     
     
  #7560  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2016, 8:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viperlord View Post
144 S 500 E
Salt Lake City UT 841111907

Fifth East Mixed-Use Planned Development
Planned development request for new mixed-use building including commercial and residential at 144-148 S. 500 E.

renderings at the link below:

https://aca.slcgov.com/Citizen/Cap/CapDe...58&agencyCode=SLCREF&IsToShowInspection=

Hey this is the development I was talking about way back then, thanks for posting it.
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=7483103&postcount=6757
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