Future Transit System Fantasy Ideas

[Acajack]

Even if there are likely reasons for this, it is odd that there are no north-south bus routes for 5-6 blocks (about 1 km?) on any of the streets between Bronson and Bank.

This is uncommon I'd say for the downtown area of a fairly large city. (At least, one that has a pretty extensive transit system.)

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Until we have a fully compatible fare payment system, trains operated by STO would have to have a different paint scheme. I would love to see blue fleur de lis with a sprinkling of small red maple leaves. It could look really cool.

This tells us that electronic fare integration should be a priority. I have lived in Ottawa all my life and have never been on a STO Bus and now with Presto, it makes it that much more unlikely because the lack of full compatibility.

I use STO all the time with my OCPresto.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

You need to address the strongest travel desire lines. For most centretown residents, a route that gets you to the Rideau Centre is the most important destination. I doubt that the NCC will allow buses onto the Queen Elizabeth Driveway

Have they ever been asked?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

I use STO all the time with my OCPresto.

Yeah, there is no practical issue for passengers who want to use STO vs. OC Transpo passes on either system that is related to their technical incompatibility.

That's because drivers on both systems assume your pass from the other system is valid and just wave you though.

So the problem is a fare enforcement one only.

[lrt's friend]

I thought that you could not use the Presto card on STO buses for individual trip fares. I do not have a monthly pass.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Yeah, there is no practical issue for passengers who want to use STO vs. OC Transpo passes on either system that is related to their technical incompatibility.

That's because drivers on both systems assume your pass from the other system is valid and just wave you though.

So the problem is a fare enforcement one only.

I deedley-deet by OCPresto card on the STO deedley-deet machine, and it goes "deedley-deet" and wishes me a happy day.

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I thought that you could not use the Presto card on STO buses for individual trip fares. I do not have a monthly pass.

Dunno. I have a monthly pass.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by McC

Buses would not work well on Laurier because of the bike lanes.

Post LRT, it would make sense to move the bike lanes from Laurier to Albert and Slater streets. The bus lanes could easily be turned into nice, wide bike lanes. With the bike lanes removed, there would be lots of room for buses on Laurier and it would be much better spacing to have buses on Queen, Laurier and Somerset.

[McC]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Post LRT, it would make sense to move the bike lanes from Laurier to Albert and Slater streets. The bus lanes could easily be turned into nice, wide bike lanes.

or those nice concrete bus stops and platforms built in 2009/10, with stations already wired for electronic displays could continue to be used for buses.

[trhgr]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

For most centretown residents, a route that gets you to the Rideau Centre is the most important destination.

I don't agree. People go to through RC because there's no way to avoid it.

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I doubt that the NCC will allow buses onto the Queen Elizabeth Driveway

They do during winterlude and it's a nice and practical way to go to the glebe and Lansdowne.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Dunno. I have a monthly pass.

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I thought that you could not use the Presto card on STO buses for individual trip fares. I do not have a monthly pass.

You can use a Presto card for individual trip fares, provided you start your trip on OC Transpo, as the STO's machines will accept a transfer from a Presto card but they can't deduct any money themselves due to legal issues.

The only area where Presto-STO usage is really a problem, is walk-up traffic to STO routes originating in the downtown area that doesn't use OC Transpo to get there in the first place. It's an easy enough problem to solve by simply making sure to take an OC Transpo bus first.. for example, instead of boarding an STO bus at Rideau, take the 8 to Gatineau and switch to STO over there.

In the future, this will be even easier as there will be PRESTO readers at the surface entrances to the downtown LRT stations--just tap your card on one of those to get a valid transfer, and boom.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by McC

or those nice concrete bus stops and platforms built in 2009/10, with stations already wired for electronic displays could continue to be used for buses.

Except for the fact that Albert will only have buses west of Lyon (routes 8 and 50) and Slater will only have buses east of O'Conner (I believe routes 7, 11, 52, 16, 18 and 19) and west of Bay (routes 8 and 50). There won't be any other buses on it so there won't be need for massive bus shelters on them. Its also short sighted to use existing, easily replaced infrastructure as an excuse to not use what will be a better route in the long term.

Most of those routes have better options than Albert and Slater anyway (I've previously stated that the proposed route 8 should be split anyway). The only pickle is route 50 as the only other option would be to run it on Bronson to Queen and I'm not sure that stretch of Bronson is up to the task, though it is only one "local" route.

see 2018 Downtown Network

[McC]

I'm not a fan of the currently proposed routes; way too many turns, recipe for gridlock, delay and deadly conflicts with pedestrians and cyclists.

I think local buses should use Albert and Slater through the core. The eastbound buses would turn around around just past the Rideau Centre, and the westbound buses would turn around at Pimisi, so you get transfer points at each end. People would have the choice of switching from LRT to a bus with more frequent surface stops to complete their trip to the core (good for mobility), and people riding local routes from the east couldconnect to the Gatineau-bound buses at Pimisi.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

You can use a Presto card for individual trip fares, provided you start your trip on OC Transpo, as the STO's machines will accept a transfer from a Presto card but they can't deduct any money themselves due to legal issues.

The only area where Presto-STO usage is really a problem, is walk-up traffic to STO routes originating in the downtown area that doesn't use OC Transpo to get there in the first place. It's an easy enough problem to solve by simply making sure to take an OC Transpo bus first.. for example, instead of boarding an STO bus at Rideau, take the 8 to Gatineau and switch to STO over there.

In the future, this will be even easier as there will be PRESTO readers at the surface entrances to the downtown LRT stations--just tap your card on one of those to get a valid transfer, and boom.

What?

If you want to use the STO system to go to Gatineau. How do you get back? You can't with a Presto card when paying a single fare.

This is a major problem without better electronic integration.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

What?

If you want to use the STO system to go to Gatineau. How do you get back? You can't with a Presto card when paying a single fare.

This is a major problem without better electronic integration.

According to STO you can use all OC Transpo-issued fare items (passes, transfers, etc.) except "tickets" (does OC still have paper tickets?) on all STO buses after 9 am. The reason being is that if you're starting your trip in Gatineau before 9 am you likely live in Gatineau and should have an STO pass, not an OC Transpo one. (I suppose there could be exceptions like people who work night shifts but there is a special card these people can get.)

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Except for the fact that Albert will only have buses west of Lyon (routes 8 and 50) and Slater will only have buses east of O'Conner (I believe routes 7, 11, 52, 16, 18 and 19) and west of Bay (routes 8 and 50).

Assuming that they stick to the current, crappy, draft post-LRT downtown transit plan.

Most people don't know the full extent of the draft changes yet. Expect blowback as 2018 approaches.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Acajack

According to STO you can use all OC Transpo-issued fare items (passes, transfers, etc.) except "tickets" (does OC still have paper tickets?) on all STO buses after 9 am. The reason being is that if you're starting your trip in Gatineau before 9 am you likely live in Gatineau and should have an STO pass, not an OC Transpo one. (I suppose there could be exceptions like people who work night shifts but there is a special card these people can get.)

I thought Presto cards work on STO buses as long as you are not using your e-purse. So, it works for monthly passes and transfers but not to pay an individual fare. That was always the impression I got, that I couldn't use my Presto card to return from Gatineau on an STO bus because I am not a monthly pass holder.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Assuming that they stick to the current, crappy, draft post-LRT downtown transit plan.

Most people don't know the full extent of the draft changes yet. Expect blowback as 2018 approaches.

Most people do not pay attention until changes are imminent. This will be the single largest change to our transit system EVER. There will be blow back. It is inevitable no matter how well they plan it. The question is how well are the 'experts' planning it. I do not have a great deal of confidence based on past history.

[Buggys]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I thought Presto cards work on STO buses as long as you are not using your e-purse. So, it works for monthly passes and transfers but not to pay an individual fare. That was always the impression I got, that I couldn't use my Presto card to return from Gatineau on an STO bus because I am not a monthly pass holder.

I agree that this is a problem -- especially since there's maybe 1 single location in all of Ottawa to buy STO tickets, so not convenient for someone who doesn't live in Gatineau.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Most people do not pay attention until changes are imminent. This will be the single largest change to our transit system EVER. There will be blow back. It is inevitable no matter how well they plan it. The question is how well are the 'experts' planning it. I do not have a great deal of confidence based on past history.

Remember, the "experts" have drafted a plan that:

- cuts all cross-town trips in the core, that span the Rideau Canal, into forced-transfer trips;
- the above, without any sign that there will be adequate shelter or amenities at the transfer points;
- the above, "points", in plural, because the existing Rideau Street multi-route hub is being abolished; and
- the local service that will serve the Rideau Centre will be at the upper, bridge level, requiring a hike through the Rideau Centre to transfer to/from the LRT underground station, because OC Transpo and Jim Watson and Mathieu Fleury would rather make nice with the Rideau Centre owners than with transit users.

This is going to be an epic fustercluck. The mitigating factor is that it will be in a municipal election year, so hopefully any councillor who backs this garbage plan will feel lots of heat at the doors.

I am already practicing my swears for when Fleury knocks.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Remember, the "experts" have drafted a plan that:

- cuts all cross-town trips in the core, that span the Rideau Canal, into forced-transfer trips;
- the above, without any sign that there will be adequate shelter or amenities at the transfer points;
- the above, "points", in plural, because the existing Rideau Street multi-route hub is being abolished; and
- the local service that will serve the Rideau Centre will be at the upper, bridge level, requiring a hike through the Rideau Centre to transfer to/from the LRT underground station, because OC Transpo and Jim Watson and Mathieu Fleury would rather make nice with the Rideau Centre owners than with transit users.

This is going to be an epic fustercluck. The mitigating factor is that it will be in a municipal election year, so hopefully any councillor who backs this garbage plan will feel lots of heat at the doors.

I am already practicing my swears for when Fleury knocks.

I'm not sure why you keep saying this when the network map already confirms that only a handful of routes will be on the MC bridge.