Calgary Public Transit II

[UofC.engineer]

Originally Posted by outoftheice

Included in today's announcement is funding for phase 2 of the 17th Ave SE BRT. This is a huge win for Calgary's transit network as phase 2 involves the Transitway crossing Deerfoot Trail. This crossing is a huge choke point for transit along 17th Ave SE and will dramatically improve travel times along the corridor which of course improves the service and will hopefully lead to higher ridership and more TOD investments along 17th Ave.

I thought phase 2 was to complete the busway from 36th street to 52nd street but I could be wrong. Does anyone know for sure about this?

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by UofC.engineer

I thought phase 2 was to complete the busway from 36th street to 52nd street but I could be wrong. Does anyone know for sure about this?

They quoted the head of Calgary Transit in the paper about the new bridge over the Deerfoot which is too include a multi use pathway too!

I was confused too, since the first phase has three construction phases!

[UofC.engineer]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

They quoted the head of Calgary Transit in the paper about the new bridge over the Deerfoot which is too include a multi use pathway too!

I was confused too, since the first phase has three construction phases!

Fantastic news! Maybe this will be a catalyst to redeveloping the Blackfoot truck stop. I heard rumblings years ago that a grocery store was going to go in that location...must've been all hot air.

[joe498]

Southeast BRT to get Deerfoot overpass

http://www.metronews.ca/news/calgary/2016/09/01/southeast-brt-to-get-deerfoot-overpass.html

[NeoGamer]

Hi all,

Super duper long time lurker and regular 305 BRT user here! Just wanted to join in on the excitement for this announcement. As excited as I am for the bus lanes going down 17th, the real bottleneck I see on a daily basis is definitely the section going over Deerfoot so this is welcome news.

I'm curious how they plan to connect the new bridge to 17th Ave around the 26 St SE area though if the new bridge is south of that intersection. The optimist in me wishes they can tunnel underneath 26th, with an underground 28th ST Station and connect with the median transitway on 17th above ground for some full grade separation.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by NeoGamer

Hi all,

Super duper long time lurker and regular 305 BRT user here! Just wanted to join in on the excitement for this announcement. As excited as I am for the bus lanes going down 17th, the real bottleneck I see on a daily basis is definitely the section going over Deerfoot so this is welcome news.

I'm curious how they plan to connect the new bridge to 17th Ave around the 26 St SE area though if the new bridge is south of that intersection. The optimist in me wishes they can tunnel underneath 26th, with an underground 28th ST Station and connect with the median transitway on 17th above ground for some full grade separation.

Do we know the bridge will be to the south? Looks to me like going north of the existing bridge across Deerfoot would make most sense.

I hope this is somewhat ambitious - bringing it over the river and across the railway tracks too. That whole area around the Blackfoot truck stop needs to be reconfigured, right now Inglewood feels way more isolated than it should.

[MalcolmTucker]

There is a map in the study of the se brt of the two options, tunnel vs level crossing. City website, near the end of the street sections document.

The city contemplates using part of the truck stop land as well.

[NeoGamer]

Those diagrams are a bit older but i'm not a fan of them crossing 19th and 26th Streets at grade literally a few meters away from the existing intersections. I really hope they get this right.

Then again, we kinda design some of our LRT lines like this so I wouldn't be surprised if that's what we get.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

There is a map in the study of the se brt of the two options, tunnel vs level crossing. City website, near the end of the street sections document.

The city contemplates using part of the truck stop land as well.

Ah I see it now, very interesting. Looks like they want to terminate and interchange with the SELRT at Ramsay.

http://www.calgary.ca/Transportation/TP/...cts/17-av-se-study-executive-summary.pdf

[outoftheice]

Originally Posted by milomilo

Ah I see it now, very interesting. Looks like they want to terminate and interchange with the SELRT at Ramsay.

http://www.calgary.ca/Transportation/TP/...cts/17-av-se-study-executive-summary.pdf

Thanks for providing the link! From the looks of things, the concept put forward in this report makes the assumption that the SE LRT is still a future concept and that the SE Transitway has been built as an interim solution. This is why the 17 Ave Transitway has a bridge over the CP tracks and links to the SE LRT right-of-way in Ramsay as the intention was for both BRT routes to share the final few kms of the SE Transitway into downtown.

Now that it looks like the Green Line may go straight to LRT I doubt that the alignment shown here is still considered a viable option. My best guess is that after the proposed Blackfoot Truck stop station the buses will travel in mixed traffic underneath Blackfoot Trail and onto 9th Ave through Inglewood and into downtown.

[MalcolmTucker]

The SE LRT won't be anywhere close to fully loaded since demand and capacity will be determined by the northern section. If frequencies on both are often enough it will be faster than the time loss in mixed traffic.

Could go either way.

[UofC.engineer]

Originally Posted by milomilo

Ah I see it now, very interesting. Looks like they want to terminate and interchange with the SELRT at Ramsay.

http://www.calgary.ca/Transportation/TP/...cts/17-av-se-study-executive-summary.pdf

Originally Posted by outoftheice

Thanks for providing the link! From the looks of things, the concept put forward in this report makes the assumption that the SE LRT is still a future concept and that the SE Transitway has been built as an interim solution. This is why the 17 Ave Transitway has a bridge over the CP tracks and links to the SE LRT right-of-way in Ramsay as the intention was for both BRT routes to share the final few kms of the SE Transitway into downtown.

Now that it looks like the Green Line may go straight to LRT I doubt that the alignment shown here is still considered a viable option. My best guess is that after the proposed Blackfoot Truck stop station the buses will travel in mixed traffic underneath Blackfoot Trail and onto 9th Ave through Inglewood and into downtown.

IIRC I believe the ultimate plan was to run low floor Siemen S70's(Same recommended stock as SELRT) along 17th ave and have them tie into the greenline some how.

[joe498]

2016 Transit Service Review: New bus routes effective September 5, 2016

http://www.calgarytransit.com/2016servicereview_p3

[ByeByeBaby]

The alignment in the report has a "local" bus alternative (red line) shown turning on 9th Ave under Blackfoot and into Inglewood that way. I assume that since the whole price tag was estimated as roughly $150M a few years ago and the feds funded $45M for 50% of the funding, that the connection to the SELRT/SETWAY/... is the part that's dropped for cost savings.

I think in the long run, a conversion to LRT could work and could even work with - fantasy time - an airport spur in the north; say 16 trains per hour overall with the north split 4tph from the airport (15 min headway) and 12 tph (5 min) from the north central, with the southeast split 8 tph (7.5 min) each on the far southeast and 17th Ave.

[NeoGamer]

On the topic of transit service reviews, I was told at the last 17 Ave transitway open house that there are plans to review the bus network in and around that area in 2017. Similar to how they went about changing the NW routes recently. The idea is to have better connectivity to the new stations along 17th Ave.

This is a good chance to take some of the load off of the blue line by encouraging more people to use the 17th Ave BRT versus going to Marlborough or Franklin stations.

Routes that will likely be under review include:
1, 305, 125, 126, 440, 411, 42, 49, 50, 51, 45, 26, 57

Here are some ideas that I had in mind:
- Split the existing 305 into two:
Dedicated 17th Ave SE BRT (Downtown - 68th Street), express stops in Inglewood, using the new transitway, express stops at the 17th Ave Stations, frequent service. Effectively like a new LRT line only in bus form. Replaces east leg of 305, 125 and 126.
The other component would be a dedicated Bowness peak hour express which would be the same as the west leg of the current 305.

- The 1 changes to Bowness - Inglewood and replaces the 411 (serving all stops in Inglewood).

- The 440 (possibly renumbered) continues to run from Franklin - 84th Street via 17th and handles all local stops along 17th Ave. Does not use the transitway, there will still be regular stops along the avenue.

- Feeder buses in area reconfigured to better connect to 17th Ave stations

Any thoughts?

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by ByeByeBaby

The alignment in the report has a "local" bus alternative (red line) shown turning on 9th Ave under Blackfoot and into Inglewood that way. I assume that since the whole price tag was estimated as roughly $150M a few years ago and the feds funded $45M for 50% of the funding, that the connection to the SELRT/SETWAY/... is the part that's dropped for cost savings.

I think in the long run, a conversion to LRT could work and could even work with - fantasy time - an airport spur in the north; say 16 trains per hour overall with the north split 4tph from the airport (15 min headway) and 12 tph (5 min) from the north central, with the southeast split 8 tph (7.5 min) each on the far southeast and 17th Ave.

Sigh. But yeah, the funding is complicated for this thing, mostly because none of the funders are really interested in writing down in one place the funding flows, especially when it involves grant stacking where some grants are anticipatory in my reading.

There is Phase 1 ( 17th Avenue SE corridor between 26 Street SE and Hubalta Road SE), funded with $65.3 million from GreenTrip (100% provincial).

Phase 2 is funded from $42.5 federal, with promise of $21.25 each from the province and the city. The provincial portion will likely come from another GreenTrip round to happen this fall (submissions closed August 31).

So it adds up to $150.3 million.

[ByeByeBaby]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Sigh. But yeah, the funding is complicated for this thing, mostly because none of the funders are really interested in writing down in one place the funding flows, especially when it involves grant stacking where some grants are anticipatory in my reading.

There is Phase 1 ( 17th Avenue SE corridor between 26 Street SE and Hubalta Road SE), funded with $65.3 million from GreenTrip (100% provincial).

Phase 2 is funded from $42.5 federal, with promise of $21.25 each from the province and the city. The provincial portion will likely come from another GreenTrip round to happen this fall (submissions closed August 31).

So it adds up to $150.3 million.

But the cost estimate from the 2010 TPS linked above is $247.7 million total, with $94.2 million from "Deerfoot to Stoney" and $153.5 from "Deerfoot to Downtown". It seems clear to me from the descriptions in the report that Deerfoot actually means more like 26th St SE (i.e. at the top of the hill).

The $94.2 million for "Deerfoot to Stoney" is based on roughly 6.5 km of median transitway out to about 92nd St SE past Stoney and the new sprawl mall; it's not being built that far, rather stopping at Hubalta, about half the way (but the half with more existing infrastructure and more work to do), which is the Phase 1 funded with $65 million provinicial. That story checks out.

The $153.5 million that I rounded to $150 million was for the transitway from roughly 30 St SE to the downtown (identified as "long range" in the report), including bridges over the Deerfoot, Bow River and the CPR S of Inglewood, plus a tunnel under Blackfoot ultimately tying into the SETWAY just before the 12th St SE bridge. If the current funding is only $85 million, then this is consistent with building roughly half of the total scope, i.e. the portion to the Blackfoot truck stop.

If we want to assume the dollars are the same (for the sake of simplicity) then there's still two portions of the 2010 design unfunded, $30M or so for the section from Hubalta past Stoney which has a limited benefit and limited constituency, and $70M or so for the Blackfoot Truck Stop to SETWAY connection that doesn't make much sense if the SETWAY is an LRT line but this is a BRT line.

I think we're both in agreement; it would be nice if the City would release something showing the actual scope/design of the $85 million project they just got (mostly) (promised) funding for.

[MalcolmTucker]

The TPS includes the full street rebuild though right? Which would include utility work done concurrently that would be paid for out of a different stream?

Also, early estimates.

[Cage]

C train overshoots station as a result of hard landing. Oops sorry wrong thread.

Three cars left the track at Tuscany station. Police said it appears a train overshot the end of the track and derailed.

There were only two passengers, plus the driver aboard the CTrain when it went off the tracks, according to police. The driver, a woman in her 60s, suffered serious injuries but is in stable condition, according to EMS. The two passengers were unhurt.

http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-news...-station-after-overshooting-end-of-track

[CrossedTheTracks]

Originally Posted by Cage

C train overshoots station as a result of hard landing. Oops sorry wrong thread.

Series 8 cars?? Noooooo!!!! Why couldn't it be U2's?

Hope the driver's okay. No mention of pax, but probably awfully close to zero in that direction in the am.