Baseline Rd. Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) Project | Proposed

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

Yes, it would make perfect sense to remove the route from a campus full of thousands of transit-using students.

It wouldn't be removed. Algonquin's campus would still be served at Baseline (and along adjoining streets with local service), just as U of O's is at Campus or Carleton's is at the Carleton O-Train station.

That herpy-derp through campus, AND OVER FRIGGIN SPEED BUMPS, is nauseating. Literally.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

Incorrect. There is a project underway as we speak to construct transit lanes on St Laurent Blvd.

That is on the very periphery.

Nothing is happening on Bank, on Rideau-Montreal; bad things that actually DIMINISH the quality of service are happening on Main and Beechwood.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

But it is in the "old city of Ottawa" which Uhuniau feels is being neglected.

Then again, so is Baseline...

"Old city" = places built up before the war in my parlance. Not necessarily the same as the pre-2000 political boundary.

There is SFA being done to improve local transit in older core neighbourhoods, and lots being done to diminish the service.

My tax dollars are being flung around the suburbs while my services get garbaged.

I'm kind of getting sick of it.

[Mikeed]

Removing rapid transit that cuts *through* the centre of campus- would be a step backwards. Improvements could be made of how it is currently routed.

As someone who lived in residence, deerfield and further away along the Baseline axis over the 4 years I commuted to AC- I can not stress enough how key the 118 is to this. There is a constant churn of thousands of people living similarly for a significant portion of their life. This whole area of nepean is anchored in part by AC and if we're going to make transit woven into actual people's lives, we shouldn't be pushing rapid transit out to main avenues and away from where the people actually need to be.

Rebuilding the road through the centre of the campus to be a more effective station would be a better way forward- and less a garbage / loading dock route.

[Mikeed]

Further more- the Centrepoint / Algonquin College / College Square / Deerfield area- could use an actual vision to create a walkable, higher density neighborhood that facilitates smart growth along transit and institutional corridors in the longer term.

This could easily be envisioned as a Nepean Towncentre - there really is tremendous development potential in this area.

[lrt's friend]

Baseline BRT absolutely needs to go through Algonquin College campus as this aligns the route with Baseline Station. It would not make sense to run it straight down Baseline which would make for significant walks for transfers at Woodroffe. That is in addition to the inconvenience to the student population, with the college being the single most important transit destination on the whole route.

I really think that transit improvements within the Greenbelt have to be considered improvements to 'urban' service. The old pre-war city covers too small an area. Any rapid transit serving the old city (which will have extra challenges) will almost certainly have to have a significant component that extends into post-war Ottawa in order to make it useful to enough of the population.

[Richard Eade]

I am not convinced that Algonquin College “absolutely needs” to have the bus go through the campus. The ‘as the crow flies’ distance from far buildings to the transit station for Algonquin is very slightly longer than the ‘as the crow flies’ distance at Carleton U. and only a short bit longer than at uOttawa. I have taken a lot of bus rides through the Algonquin campus, at all times of the day, and the number of people getting off and on at the internal stops is much less than the number of people who use the Baseline Station. Also, there is a nice, convenient, inside pathway (thanks, in part to the City) from most buildings on the campus to the Baseline Station. There should be no reason that the students can’t walk to the Baseline Station. In the olden days, we had to walk outside all the way to Baseline Road for a bus – up hill both ways, into the gale-force winds of a snow storm, in -40 degree weather. Students have it so easy these days.

That said, there IS a reason for not sending a bus through the Baseline – Woodroffe intersection – it is very busy with other vehicles. In order to pull the buses around that intersection, the buses are detoured up Navaho/College/Constellation to the Baseline Station. Since the buses travel through the campus for the detour, stops have been added for the convenience of the students – so they don’t have to walk all the way to Baseline Station. Having so many, closely-spaced, stops as the buses travel through the campus, however, will take the ‘Rapid’ out of the BRT.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

Having so many, closely-spaced, stops as the buses travel through the campus, however, will take the ‘Rapid’ out of the BRT.

^ According to the map above, there will be only be one BRT stop on the Algonquin internal roads.

[Richard Eade]

Quite right. I was thinking of the three stops that are currently in the campus route and hadn't checked if they were still there on the new map.

I do think that there are too many stops along the route in general - if it is to be a BRT. Some of those stops look to be only about 300 metres apart. Granted, there are fewer stops than now, but there are too many for BRT, but likely not enough for appealing Local service.

I am not sure of the rational that was used to select where the stops are to be. For instance, there are still a good number of Carleton U. students who walk to the Heron Road Bridge, but they are being left out, while both the Wal*mart and Clyde get stops. I think that maybe the stop locations could be refined a bit - after they figure out if they are making a BRT with limited stops, or a Local route in dedicated lanes.

[SF Thomas]

I agree with getting rid of the speed bumps at Algonquin or at least reducing the size and number.

I think they could at least stand to cut down the number of bus stops that are near Algonquin College from 3 to 2. The 3 stops are Baseline Station, the one by walkway between the C and J buildings and the one by the Student Commons and Residence.

I'd vote for cutting the extra one by the C and J buildings. My anecdotal experience when I was going to the college was it was rarely used and half the time the 118 buses going west were full when they got there anyways. For this reason most students would purposely go to the Student Center or Baseline bus stops. All the stop really did most of the time was add an extra minute to the route when you had to wait for people to get on or off.

I'd be curious actually if redirecting the west bound 118 buses on Navajo and Woodroffe might make for a slightly faster ride rather than have them make than extra detour through the campus.

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by SF Thomas

I agree with getting rid of the speed bumps at Algonquin or at least reducing the size and number.

I think they could at least stand to cut down the number of bus stops that are near Algonquin College from 3 to 2. The 3 stops are Baseline Station, the one by walkway between the C and J buildings and the one by the Student Commons and Residence.

I'd vote for cutting the extra one by the C and J buildings. My anecdotal experience when I was going to the college was it was rarely used and half the time the 118 buses going west were full when they got there anyways. For this reason most students would purposely go to the Student Center or Baseline bus stops. All the stop really did most of the time was add an extra minute to the route when you had to wait for people to get on or off.

I'd be curious actually if redirecting the west bound 118 buses on Navajo and Woodroffe might make for a slightly faster ride rather than have them make than extra detour through the campus.

In my experience the C building stop was typically way busier than the Residence one, both for boarding and leaving.

[SF Thomas]

Originally Posted by Beedok

In my experience the C building stop was typically way busier than the Residence one, both for boarding and leaving.

Might be the time of day I was there then. Usually late afternoon around 3 to 4pm and late evening after 9pm.

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by SF Thomas

Might be the time of day I was there then. Usually late afternoon around 3 to 4pm and late evening after 9pm.

Ah, well 9pm is definitely a slow time for students. Like 8-9am you get loads of students showing up and going to class. 5-6pm is also pretty busy for students leaving.

[Buggys]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

Yes, it would make perfect sense to remove the route from a campus full of thousands of transit-using students.

Most people along the Baseline route do not stop or get on at the small stops at Algonquin college. The most used stop near the college (by far) is Baseline station, where people often stay at the station to make a transfer.

...I know, because I take that bus every day. Although it would be nice for Metrolinx to make their Presto stop stats public, as they were claiming that info would be a benefit to urban planning.

[Buggys]

Originally Posted by SF Thomas

I agree with getting rid of the speed bumps at Algonquin or at least reducing the size and number.

I think they could at least stand to cut down the number of bus stops that are near Algonquin College from 3 to 2. The 3 stops are Baseline Station, the one by walkway between the C and J buildings and the one by the Student Commons and Residence.

I'd vote for cutting the extra one by the C and J buildings. My anecdotal experience when I was going to the college was it was rarely used and half the time the 118 buses going west were full when they got there anyways. For this reason most students would purposely go to the Student Center or Baseline bus stops. All the stop really did most of the time was add an extra minute to the route when you had to wait for people to get on or off.

I'd be curious actually if redirecting the west bound 118 buses on Navajo and Woodroffe might make for a slightly faster ride rather than have them make than extra detour through the campus.

The long term plan for the Baseline BRT is to run along Navaho instead of there herpy-derpy bumpy detour inside the college. The route should only continue inside the college temporarily.

...Pretty much this whole summer, the bus took the Navaho route, due to construction within the college, and it ran much smoother than the convoluted within-college route. In the winter, the within-college route doesn't get timely snow removal, so buses often need to suddenly change to the Navaho route anyway. Also, before 7 am, the busses are supposed to take the Navaho route instead of the within-college route. If your driver does not do that, feel free to remind them.

BRT routes should not have to go over speed bumps.

[SF Thomas]

Originally Posted by Buggys

The long term plan for the Baseline BRT is to run along Navaho instead of there herpy-derpy bumpy detour inside the college. The route should only continue inside the college temporarily.

...Pretty much this whole summer, the bus took the Navaho route, due to construction within the college, and it ran much smoother than the convoluted within-college route. In the winter, the within-college route doesn't get timely snow removal, so buses often need to suddenly change to the Navaho route anyway. Also, before 7 am, the busses are supposed to take the Navaho route instead of the within-college route. If your driver does not do that, feel free to remind them.

BRT routes should not have to go over speed bumps.

Thanks for the info.

I graduated in the spring and haven't been down to the college via the 118 for most of the summer and when I was it was usually on a weekend. I admittedly didn't use the 118 every day either (manly if I was going shopping after classes) I usually used the 111 or 86.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Mikeed

Removing rapid transit that cuts *through* the centre of campus- would be a step backwards. Improvements could be made of how it is currently routed.

Starting by removing those damn speed humps.

As someone who lived in residence, deerfield and further away along the Baseline axis over the 4 years I commuted to AC- I can not stress enough how key the 118 is to this. There is a constant churn of thousands of people living similarly for a significant portion of their life. This whole area of nepean is anchored in part by AC and if we're going to make transit woven into actual people's lives, we shouldn't be pushing rapid transit out to main avenues and away from where the people actually need to be.

Or we could start building things where the people neeed to be, along the main avenues.

Rebuilding the road through the centre of the campus to be a more effective station would be a better way forward- and less a garbage / loading dock route.

Also, why do Ottawa educational institutions, for the most part, insist on building ugly, street-killing buildings? U of O has started to repair itself, but Carleton and Algonquing are horrible, horrible, horrible places. Carleton's situation is especially galling given that they have squandered an amazing location, surrounded by natural and artificial water bodies, with some of the ugliest and unfriendliest campus architecture and site planning in Canada.

Algonquin's just as bad. A jumble of ass-ugly buildings that don't address the street, and often turn their backs to it. And don't even get me started on "College Square".

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I really think that transit improvements within the Greenbelt have to be considered improvements to 'urban' service. The old pre-war city covers too small an area. Any rapid transit serving the old city (which will have extra challenges) will almost certainly have to have a significant component that extends into post-war Ottawa in order to make it useful to enough of the population.

Baseline BRT does nothing for New Edinburgh, nothing for Lowertown, nothing for the Glebe, nothing for Old Ottawa South, nothing for Vanier, nothing for Overbrook, nothing for Sandy Hill, nothing for Centretown.

It does something for the Baseline corridor, but let's not pretend that this does anything to improve service in the core.

The City and OC Transpo have no plans to spend one dime to improve transit in the old, mixed-use, transit-supportive neighbourhoods, or, if they do, they are holding their cards unnecessarily close to their chest. Our service continues to deterioriate, and our tax dollars continue to flow outwards to the suburbs.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

That said, there IS a reason for not sending a bus through the Baseline – Woodroffe intersection – it is very busy with other vehicles. In order to pull the buses around that intersection, the buses are detoured up Navaho/College/Constellation to the Baseline Station. Since the buses travel through the campus for the detour, stops have been added for the convenience of the students – so they don’t have to walk all the way to Baseline Station. Having so many, closely-spaced, stops as the buses travel through the campus, however, will take the ‘Rapid’ out of the BRT.

I preferred the old configuration of the 118, before it did its jog through Algonquin. It was much more direct, intuitive, and COMFORTABLE of a ride.

Why OC Transpo insists on subjecting riders to as many swerves and humps as possible, I will never understand.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Buggys

BRT routes should not have to go over speed bumps.

No bus route should have to go over speed bumps.

Ever.

For any reason.

Yet Ottawa keeps adding these humps to streets with transit service.