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  #41  
Old Posted Aug 25, 2016, 9:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Beedok View Post
I had known about the double decker trolleybuses, but was not aware that Vancouver and some other cities went for such high wires.
The wires need to be high enough for trucks to clear them. The height limit for them varies between jurisdictions, but I gather they typically range from about 13 to 13.5 feet (3.95 to 4.1 m). Given how widespread the trolley lines are in Vancouver, if they were much lower, they would have to basically ban trucks from the city.

Of course in Europe and Asia things could be quite different, as height limits could be much lower because of other, older infrastructure (bridges, tunnels and such).
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  #42  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2016, 11:38 PM
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Yo... Yup, I too think that trolleybuses would be best, actually for both Baseline and Carling. However, watch the NIMBYs complain about the OCS.
Plus, would OC be able to (horror) deal with a new element in the fleet ?
I mean, in that they already hate proper equipment utilization of the Hybrids, which if properly used, would indeed deliver the promised fuel and performance efficiency (a stated reason for getting rid of them!).
Unfortunately, I can foresee only at best DDs or artics. Sigh.
Thanks.
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  #43  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2016, 11:31 PM
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Baseline Road Rapid Transit Corridor

Ottawa's new, little-discussed $200M Baseline busway

David Reevely, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: September 15, 2016 | Last Updated: September 15, 2016 6:22 PM EDT


The city is reviving a dormant project to build a new Transitway along Heron and Baseline roads, a $200-million plan to move more bus passengers faster across the southern edge of downtown.

“Most people have no idea this is in the plans,” says River Coun. Riley Brockington, through whose ward the new Transitway would run, and who isn’t crazy about it.

First, the case in favour. The new busway would connect Billings Bridge and Bayshore malls, and along the way hit the government campuses at Confederation Heights and Clyde Avenue, Algonquin College and Centrepointe, and the Queensway Carleton Hospital. It would link with rail lines and busways at Heron station, Confederation Heights, Baseline and Bayshore.

The general route is included in the transportation master plan city council approved in 2013, as something the city wanted to get done by 2031, and there’s been preliminary work in the can for years. But the last open house on it was more than two years ago, and every time there’s been a public presentation, the plan has become more ambitious and the time needed to study it has gotten longer.

We’re now up to a scheme to build 14 kilometres of dedicated busway, to be constructed in phases between 2019 and 2031 — the eastern part first, the part west of Algonquin later.



By then, the city expects 10,000 people a day riding buses in that corridor, up from 6,500 now, and that taking buses out of mixed traffic will cut 11 minutes off each trip. Which might not sound like much unless it’s your commute, twice a day every day, in which case it really adds up. Making Heron and Baseline a major transit route will spur redevelopments and more density along the corridor, the city expects.

“The result will be a transformed corridor for the 21st century that will accommodate thousands of new residents and employees all within walking distance of (a) high order transit facility that can be recognized nationally,” the city’s materials say.

Lanes running in each direction would go in the median, with regular traffic on the outside. Aside from dedicated bus lanes, the city plans to add bike tracks and wider sidewalks where there aren’t any. In some places, there’s room to add them; in others, it’ll mean taking over existing traffic lanes. But much of the way, it’ll mean widening the road, and that in turn will mean shaving off properties north and south — with the first priority being along the Experimental Farm.

“They need land between Prince of Wales and Clyde. I’ll leave it at that,” Brockington says. The stretch of Baseline between Prince of Wales Drive and Clyde Avenue, with the Experimental Farm on the north side, is a pretty good road but terrible for everyone else, with a complete sidewalk only on the south side and basically no allowance for bikes.

The thing is, since being elected in 2014, Brockington’s made protecting the Experimental Farm a priority and he doesn’t like the idea of asking the federal government to give some of it up for pavement. More broadly, he isn’t sure the busway as a whole is the best use of $200 million in transit money.

“When we politicians in the southern part of the city talk about transit expansions, we talk about fast-tracking the southern extensions of Phase 2 (of the light-rail plan),” he says.

The east end got the promise of rail to Place d’Orléans in the original iteration of the plan and is now within one federal news conference of an extension all the way to Trim Road. Same thing with a spur to the airport — the provincial government is already aboard for both of them. In the west, a promised terminus at Bayshore could end up moved as far west as Palladium Drive in Kanata once a federally supported study is done.

In the south, although the Phase 2 plan includes an O-Train extension to the eastern edge of Riverside South, there’s no promise of a line into Barrhaven until the 2030s at the earliest. Pulling $200 million from the Baseline plan would help lay a lot of track.

But it would mean taking that money away from something that’s already in the city’s transportation plan. Rail lines to Trim Road, the airport and Kanata are add-ons, potentially doable with extra money from the provincial and federal governments — the first two explicitly made the list of projects the city wanted to include in its 2013 plan but couldn’t afford. Abandoning the Baseline busway to spend the money on something else would be harder.

If you want to try to convince the city, the latest version of the Baseline plan is to be presented in public in early October.

[email protected]
twitter.com/davidreevely

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...aseline-busway
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  #44  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2016, 1:21 AM
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The City doesn't have to spend a dime in capital to start running B-Line type "BRT" on corridors like this and Carling as a precurseor/interim measure.
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  #45  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2016, 1:50 AM
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The City doesn't have to spend a dime in capital to start running B-Line type "BRT" on corridors like this and Carling as a precurseor/interim measure.
But it requires quite a bit of pretty penny in operating costs. Here in Kingston we implemented a city-wide network of routes like this and in order to pay for it, municipal spending on transit operations had to be increased by $4 million. That is roughly equivalent to $30 million in Ottawa.

That map above is very illuminating. The stations in many areas are very close together--seems to be something like 300m-500m pretty much the whole way. That means the city is probably planning on simply converting the 118 bus route to the new BRT, instead of funding a new route.
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  #46  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2016, 1:52 AM
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Reposting my comment from the Citizen website...

We can't just spend all our transit resources on the LRT line. OC Transpo ridership is dropping partially because more people are working outside of downtown, which is not well served by transit today. Well, here is a cross-town transit corridor that serves a lot of the employment areas outside of downtown.

It's odd that Councillor Brockington is against this considering how much his constituents in River ward will benefit from having an improved transit connection to the west end. Currently, the most southerly transit corridor in the city is on Scott St. Having a corridor on Baseline, that connects the SW and SE transit corridors, has been long needed and it would make no sense to defer this further.
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  #47  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2016, 2:08 AM
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Originally Posted by bradnixon View Post
Reposting my comment from the Citizen website...

We can't just spend all our transit resources on the LRT line. OC Transpo ridership is dropping partially because more people are working outside of downtown, which is not well served by transit today. Well, here is a cross-town transit corridor that serves a lot of the employment areas outside of downtown.

It's odd that Councillor Brockington is against this considering how much his constituents in River ward will benefit from having an improved transit connection to the west end. Currently, the most southerly transit corridor in the city is on Scott St. Having a corridor on Baseline, that connects the SW and SE transit corridors, has been long needed and it would make no sense to defer this further.
It is the missing link.
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  #48  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2016, 2:32 AM
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I feel a couple of those stations are a bit redundant. I see no need for more than one between Fisher and Merivale. Nor the need for the one between Merivale and Clyde.

Also the lack of connection to Bell's Corners is noteworthy. That makes me thing that they might not have a single route run the whole way, with the 118 taking the Baseline chunk and a new truncated 97 (iirc) doing the Bayshore connection.
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  #49  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2016, 3:35 AM
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And yet, not a single penny to do anything about the growing local transit problem in the old city of Ottawa.
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  #50  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2016, 4:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Beedok View Post
I feel a couple of those stations are a bit redundant. I see no need for more than one between Fisher and Merivale. Nor the need for the one between Merivale and Clyde.
As I said above, I'm pretty sure it's because the city is planning for the BRT to completely replace local service.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beedok View Post
Also the lack of connection to Bell's Corners is noteworthy. That makes me thing that they might not have a single route run the whole way, with the 118 taking the Baseline chunk and a new truncated 97 (iirc) doing the Bayshore connection.
My bet is that they're going to split the 118 at the QCH and then extend both halves to Bayshore, creating a continuous rapid transit route along the Baseline corridor, and a local route through Bells Corners and Kanata.
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  #51  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2016, 1:00 PM
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Hopefully BRTing this route will mean that, if the route does have to keep doing that bloody annoying herpy-derpy-loopy-doop through Algonquin's ass-ugly campus, that they'll at least do the courtesy of removing the speed bumps FROM A TRANSIT ROUTE.
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  #52  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2016, 1:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Uhuniau View Post
And yet, not a single penny to do anything about the growing local transit problem in the old city of Ottawa.
Incorrect. There is a project underway as we speak to construct transit lanes on St Laurent Blvd.
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  #53  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2016, 1:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Uhuniau View Post
...if the route does have to keep doing that bloody annoying herpy-derpy-loopy-doop through Algonquin's ass-ugly campus...
Yes, it would make perfect sense to remove the route from a campus full of thousands of transit-using students.
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  #54  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2016, 1:46 PM
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Incorrect. There is a project underway as we speak to construct transit lanes on St Laurent Blvd.
There is? First I hear of it. Which section of St-Laurent?
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  #55  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2016, 2:07 PM
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There is? First I hear of it. Which section of St-Laurent?
Between Industrial and Lancaster/Smyth.

http://ottawa.ca/en/city-hall/planni...strial-smyth-0
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  #56  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2016, 2:18 PM
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Originally Posted by bradnixon View Post
Between Industrial and Lancaster/Smyth.

http://ottawa.ca/en/city-hall/planni...strial-smyth-0
Thanks!
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  #57  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2016, 2:47 PM
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For a while now I've envisioned what I like to call "autonomous, conduction-electric bus rapid transit as the future of suburban and inner city rapid transit.

ACE BRT would be electric and powered by induction or conduction charging technology like Bombardier's PRIMOVE. And due to the closed off nature of a BRT network- autonomous driving would easier to bring online. Esp. with true faregates and better urban streetside station design. A design element that is needed to go full autonomous.

Now, autonomous buses might be farther out, but the Baseline BRT route would be a perfect candidate for PRIMOVE in Canada. It's already up and running in Berlin. If it does work and would allow the eventual migration to system wide. This could mean that the entire bus and rail network in Ottawa could get it's power sourced directly from- for good marketing- the Chaudière Falls generation station. Or regardless the grid- which is now almost 100% clean energy. This would mean ~30% of the daily movement of people in the city would be zero emission. Proper planning and socio-economic forces could push that up to 45%-50% by just past the horizon of mid-century.
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  #58  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2016, 2:51 PM
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Originally Posted by bradnixon View Post
Incorrect. There is a project underway as we speak to construct transit lanes on St Laurent Blvd.
St Laurent feels at least as suburban as Baseline.
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  #59  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2016, 3:24 PM
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St Laurent feels at least as suburban as Baseline.
But it is in the "old city of Ottawa" which Uhuniau feels is being neglected.

Then again, so is Baseline...
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  #60  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2016, 3:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Mikeed View Post
For a while now I've envisioned what I like to call "autonomous, conduction-electric bus rapid transit as the future of suburban and inner city rapid transit.

ACE BRT would be electric and powered by induction or conduction charging technology like Bombardier's PRIMOVE. And due to the closed off nature of a BRT network- autonomous driving would easier to bring online. Esp. with true faregates and better urban streetside station design. A design element that is needed to go full autonomous.

Now, autonomous buses might be farther out, but the Baseline BRT route would be a perfect candidate for PRIMOVE in Canada. It's already up and running in Berlin. If it does work and would allow the eventual migration to system wide. This could mean that the entire bus and rail network in Ottawa could get it's power sourced directly from- for good marketing- the Chaudière Falls generation station. Or regardless the grid- which is now almost 100% clean energy. This would mean ~30% of the daily movement of people in the city would be zero emission. Proper planning and socio-economic forces could push that up to 45%-50% by just past the horizon of mid-century.
STO's Rapibus corridor would be an excellent candidate for this technology (charging on the go, not autonomous buses, yet). As it's Bombardier technology, there should be some tangible return for any of the $ Quebec and/or the feds hand over to bail them out of their C Series mess. If they're selling jets below cost to Delta and other private airlines, municipalities should be getting discounts on conversion of bus fleets and routes to electric power.
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