DENVER | Transportation Thread

[bunt_q]

Is it true that the Eagle lines are the first new-build rail lines in the U.S. to employ PTC? I think they are. So some hiccups make sense. Not like it's costing RTD anything, so I am fine with it. Let the Concessionaire pay and pay handsomely.

[RyanD]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Is it true that the Eagle lines are the first new-build rail lines in the U.S. to employ PTC? I think they are. So some hiccups make sense. Not like it's costing RTD anything, so I am fine with it. Let the Concessionaire pay and pay handsomely.

Well RTD is fining them over $250k a month and I'm sure DTP wants to get their performance bonus so it'll get figured out.

And yes they are the first new-build rail lines in the U.S that employ PTC.

[PLANSIT]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Is it true that the Eagle lines are the first new-build rail lines in the U.S. to employ PTC? I think they are. So some hiccups make sense. Not like it's costing RTD anything, so I am fine with it. Let the Concessionaire pay and pay handsomely.

Yes, this is true.

It does cost RTD's image. They are the ones getting tagged by the media/riders for the issues.

Edit: RyanD was first.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by The Dirt

It's a bit discouraging that the train has been operational for nearly 5 months (and had a year of testing) and they can't seem to figure out the crossing guard issues. That's the number one issue, because if trains are delayed at all of the at-grade crossings, it screws up the timing on the single track sections.

9News recently did an indepth look at the problems.

"RTD's 'Train to Plane' plagued with problems before opening day"
08/31/16 by Chris Vanderveen - KUSA

KUSA - Six days before RTD’s A Line opened up to the public, the testing of the line was encountering problem after problem thanks to a late spring snowstorm.

The author of the daily status report put it bluntly. “Train service did not run well.”

It would hardly be the only worrisome day encountered by RTD and Denver Transit Partners in the lead up to April 22.

This is a very good read and nice piece by 9News KUSA.

I have no idea the difference from this to the at-grade crossings used on the W Line. I still suspect that the Fed Transit Safety System plays a big part.

[PLANSIT]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

9News recently did an indepth look at the problems.

"RTD's 'Train to Plane' plagued with problems before opening day"
08/31/16 by Chris Vanderveen - KUSA

This is a very good read and nice piece by 9News KUSA.

I have no idea the difference from this to the at-grade crossings used on the W Line. I still suspect that the Fed Transit Safety System plays a big part.

Freight corridor crossings + CRT corridor crossings + adjacent intersection signals + rest of PTC elements all controlled by one system.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by RyanD

Well RTD is fining them over $250k a month and I'm sure DTP wants to get their performance bonus so it'll get figured out.

And yes they are the first new-build rail lines in the U.S that employ PTC.

I read somewhere that the fines are a piddling amount in the big scheme of things. Still, I don't doubt everybody will be happier when it's working well.

Originally Posted by PLANSIT

Freight corridor crossings + CRT corridor crossings + adjacent intersection signals + rest of PTC elements all controlled by one system.

So basically a "coding" and sensors nightmare then?

[Cirrus]

Originally Posted by Denverite

“The original design of the mall was to carry probably 15,000 people per day, and you know what we’ve got on there now is four to five times that,”

“There’s just so many buses on the mall that it ceases to become a pedestrian mall... it starts acting more like a street than a mall.”

So why doesn't RTD use articulated buses, instead of doggedly insisting on short ones?

This is a capacity problem. It can be solved by larger vehicles.

[The Dirt]

Also, RTD needs to do a better job of distributing the buses. I sometimes see 3 southbound buses stack up at the same stop, while I can usually walk at least half the length of the mall and not have a single northbound bus come by. It's the weirdest thing.

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

I read somewhere that the fines are a piddling amount in the big scheme of things. Still, I don't doubt everybody will be happier when it's working well.

They're piddling compared to the total project cost. But if you subtract out debt service on capital costs and actual hard operating costs, it probably looks very different. They are almost surely eating into their contingency quickly, and will start hitting the equity returns not long after. We'll know there is a problem if/when the lenders start to exercise their rights. (They all have step-in rights, rectification rights, etc. to make sure that performance payment hits do not escalate to the point that debt can't be repaid.)

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by The Dirt

Also, RTD needs to do a better job of distributing the buses. I sometimes see 3 southbound buses stack up at the same stop, while I can usually walk at least half the length of the mall and not have a single northbound bus come by. It's the weirdest thing.

I think this is part of the reason that RTD doesn't switch to fewer, larger vehicles. The mall is just too long now for operations to remain evenly spaced. You can mitigate that partially by having super-frequent headways - even if three stack up, in the worst case, there will still be another coming. If you reduce headways and go to larger vehicles, when you do stack up, there's no relief valve coming up behind. I walk from the light rail to civic center and never get passed by a shuttle anymore.

I'd actually like to see some real operational modeling on this, but my anecdotal sense is that the mall is just too long now to maintain reliable operation over its entire length. Basically, the first half of the mall, in direction of travel, is the only portion where you can even pretend to rely on a shuttle. (Having the shuttles turn on to Broadway/Cleveland during the station rebuild doesn't help either. You lose some of the spacing/correction capability on the civic center end.)

[Cirrus]

What are the headways supposed to be? Only a couple of minutes, right?

Eliminating half the stations would help a ton with bunching. A stop every other block is still only a one-block walk from any given location.

Transit signal priority would also surely help. There are probably too many buses to use it all the time without completely gumming up all the signals downtown, but used strategically it could help reduce bunching.

Finally, how does the schedule work? Do they schedule based on time of departure, or based on maintaining even headways? And is there a line manager to tell bunched up buses to speed up/slow down, or are drivers on their own? A line with 50,000 riders a day should absolutely have a manager and run on a headway schedule.

[Scottk]

I honestly never take the bus if I am walking along 16th. Having it stop every single block is ridiculously unneccesary.

If I am walking at a brisk pace I can basically move as quickly as the bus with the added benefit of being outside to enjoy the urban environment.

I only take the bus if it is really cold outside and even then it is barely worth it. The doors simply are open too often for any heat to really stay in the bus.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Is it true that the Eagle lines are the first new-build rail lines in the U.S. to employ PTC? I think they are. So some hiccups make sense. Not like it's costing RTD anything, so I am fine with it. Let the Concessionaire pay and pay handsomely.

Originally Posted by bunt_q

They're piddling compared to the total project cost. But if you subtract out debt service on capital costs and actual hard operating costs, it probably looks very different. They are almost surely eating into their contingency quickly, and will start hitting the equity returns not long after. We'll know there is a problem if/when the lenders start to exercise their rights. (They all have step-in rights, rectification rights, etc. to make sure that performance payment hits do not escalate to the point that debt can't be repaid.)

I think partly it was that an initial hit wouldn't be that meaningful but it was also pointed out that their management margins are modest so at some point it would become more problematic, definitely.

They knew ahead of time of the issues; they could have postponed the opening. Obviously that was considered an unattractive option and given it was to be a well-publicized event it wouldn't look good for either Fluor or RTD.

What you have to wonder is whether in the original engineering there's enough of a margin of (time) error that will allow the system to ever function as originally intended?

[TakeFive]

"A Line ridership still climbing in the face of unfavorable press"
September 13, 2016 by Megan Arellano - Denverite

The bad news about the A Line keeps coming in, but so does the number of people riding it: In the month of July, 12,591 more people rode the line than during June. That’s even more than the increase from May to June, when 8,380 more riders took the train.

Ironically, the bar graph included in the article seems to show weekday ridership down for July but apparently weekend ridership made up the difference?

[Cirrus]

This looks like somewhere about 17,000/weekday in July. More than the W line, which is about 12,500. I haven't looked up the others.



denverite.com

[TakeFive]

Ron Vicksman is not a happy camper.

"South Broadway business owners upset over new bicycle lane"
SEPTEMBER 15, 2016 BY AMANDA ZITZMAN - Fox31 Denver

DENVER -- The city is spending big bucks to get more people on bicycles. A number of projects are underway, including a new, two-way protected bike lane on South Broadway.

It's in the testing phase and only been open less than a month, but some area business owners are already upset about it.

Who's unhappy?

The owner of Le Grues flower shop at 476 South Broadway has put up signs that read "Bike lane slowing your commute?" He's asking other people to voice their concerns.

The city said the lane is a work in progress, but business owners and neighbors said they feel the improvements are coming at their expense.

"There were 13 spots on our block to park in. Now there are only three," Le Grues owner Ron Vicksman said. "It makes it difficult for people to come in and shop. They'll go elsewhere."

Talking points alert - priceless.

But the city said with the growing population, the bike lanes are needed.

"If we don't do anything, we all are going to be stuck in congestion. We cannot widen our roadways," said Emily Snyder with Denver Public Works.

Wait... who's asking for South Broadway to be widened? And in order to reduce congestion we're putting South Broadway on a road diet. Huh? How's that work again? There may be good reason for wanting a protected bike lane on South Broadway but those aren't the talking points I would use. Maybe have a talking points refresher class?

Le Grues flower shop has been there for 35 years; maybe Ron just doesn't like bike riders? Or, maybe he's upset bcuz bike riders don't like/buy flowers? Maybe they're too heavy to carry on bikes? /snark font

[bunt_q]

Or maybe nobody actually uses the bike lanes. 25 streetsblog readers per day are a poor substitute for a traffic lane. And fewer will use it over time as we continue to price the young and poor out of south and central Denver. How many $100k/year individuals in $800k houses ride their bike to work downtown? Give me a break. This is an amenity for the rich elites to make their precious neighborhood look nicer, and make it harder for the riffraff to get into the city conveniently.

[Cirrus]

Does the city not have a bike count program? It shouldn't and needn't be a mystery how many people use it.

I tell you what, when my office started doing bike counts and suddenly had data showing more people on the bike lanes than on a lot of neighborhood streets (not arterials), that changed the conversation a lot.

[PLANSIT]

It's a demonstration project. Tons of data is being collected.

When the transit demonstration project opens next year in roughly the same location, tons of data will also be collected.

[Paulopolis]

I wonder how many of these business owners are the same ones that resisted light rail on Broadway for the same reasons (parking) when the idea of the Central Connector from Civic Center Park to the I-25 station was tossed around in the late 90s, early 2000s?