CHICAGO | Politics and Current Events

[Via Chicago]

Originally Posted by ardecila

I've already demonstrated that crime rates aren't holding black neighborhoods like Bronzeville or East Garfield back anymore.

I think saying crime isnt holding EGP back is a bit of a stretch. Yea the bombed out nature of the place dosent help. That said, this is just the past 30 days...



That dosent even account for the general catch-all "shootings" which is a nightly occurrence. While I dont prefer to live around empty lots, there are still some nice intact blocks and its close to downtown and it would have come around a lot sooner if the above statistics weren't rampant. No one wants to deal with that who dosent have to.

[Near North Resident]

Originally Posted by ardecila

You're describing the symptom, not the problem. Why are urban pioneers unwilling to live in these areas? It's either because they're racist and "100% Black communities" are completely unappealing, or because in Chicago, "100% Black" happens to correlate with "bombed out, no businesses or services". I've already demonstrated that crime rates aren't holding black neighborhoods like Bronzeville or East Garfield back anymore.

You sorta answered the question by mentioning Cabrini. Cabrini itself (Sedgwick to the River/Halsted, Chicago to North) sorta fits the mold of a bombed out Black community, but it's within easy striking distance of healthy, growing areas that are chock-full of shopping and entertainment. Ergo: crazy growth on every parcel of land that isn't controlled by CHA.

wtf is the CHA doing anyway, they have built a whopping 2 buildings (in cabrini) during this 7 year boom... they should just sell off the damn land if they are incapable of developing it properly

is the city putting them on hold due to the new expanded downtown zoning changes?

[VKChaz]

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown

Please explain what's so hideous about it. The lack of ground-floor retail? When this got under way, there was no Riverline being planned. No one knew what might eventually go on the Cacciatore site south of River City.

Is there no retail at all on this property? I thought I recalled a listing for small spaces at 837 / 839 S. Wells addresses.

[moorhosj]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

^ Wait a minute, huh?

Is there a palpable influx of immigrants in some of these black areas (?E. Garfield Park, etc)? Which area are you referring to?

Please share. My property investing side wants to know!

A different part of the city, but this blog post does a pretty good job of summing up the growth of Asian-Americans outward, in all directions, from Chinatown. It compares census data from 1990-2000-2010.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by Via Chicago

I think saying crime isnt holding EGP back is a bit of a stretch. Yea the bombed out nature of the place dosent help. That said, this is just the past 30 days....

As of 9/5, EGP has recorded 16 homicides even though only 20K people live there (rate is 77.8 per 100K - and we still have 3.5 months left this year). West Garfield Park is even worse - it has recorded 22 homicides for a rate of 122.2 per 100K people.

BTW, just so we are aware - Austin, West and East Garfield Park, North Lawndale, and Humboldt Park as of 9/5 have accounted alone for 137 of 497 homicides in the city. That's 27.6% of all homicides in the city in an area where only 8.5% of the city's population lives (2010 census numbers - probably slightly less percentage now even). Along with everything else, the amount of crime there is definitely holding most parts of those areas back too though there is a little hipster activity (and some people who were convinced in last cycle it was going to really gentrify) in the eastern part of EGP.

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by Via Chicago

I think saying crime isnt holding EGP back is a bit of a stretch. Yea the bombed out nature of the place dosent help. That said, this is just the past 30 days...

That dosent even account for the general catch-all "shootings" which is a nightly occurrence. While I dont prefer to live around empty lots, there are still some nice intact blocks and its close to downtown and it would have come around a lot sooner if the above statistics weren't rampant. No one wants to deal with that who dosent have to.

Sorry, I think there's a nomenclature issue. I consider EGP to start at Damen, but the city considers it to start at Rockwell.

The area between Damen and Rockwell generally has a low crime rate, but still has anemic growth (most of the new buildings you see are subsidized).

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by ardecila

Sorry, I think there's a nomenclature issue. I consider EGP to start at Damen, but the city considers it to start at Rockwell.

The area between Damen and Rockwell generally has a low crime rate, but still has anemic growth (most of the new buildings you see are subsidized).

It definitely starts around Rockwell, not Damen. As far as safety goes, maybe better than it used to be, but there's still been 3 homicides this year in that not so big area between Rockwell and Damen north of I-290

[IrishIllini]

Originally Posted by Near North Resident

wtf is the CHA doing anyway, they have built a whopping 2 buildings (in cabrini) during this 7 year boom... they should just sell off the damn land if they are incapable of developing it properly

is the city putting them on hold due to the new expanded downtown zoning changes?

Possibly waiting for enough of the former residents to move on before developing fewer affordable units than required. Don't blame them if this is the approach. Plenty of areas in Chicago that aren't Englewood where people can find affordable housing. If you're a living government subsidy, you really don't have a say in where you're put...

[Mr Downtown]

Originally Posted by IrishIllini

If you're a living government subsidy, you really don't have a say in where you're put...

Meanwhile, in a completely unrelated development, officials are just baffled by the spike in gang-related violence in the city.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown

Meanwhile, in a completely unrelated development, officials are just baffled by the spike in gang-related violence in the city.

Not getting your point.

The only way to curtail gangs is to offer free housing for freeloaders?

Nice try. Not buying it

[Mr Downtown]

^One of the causes of the spike in violence is said to be that the big gangs (with fairly stable territories) were dispersed into disparate and often hostile neighborhoods when the old CHA projects were torn down.

Free housing for freeloaders?

I'll be kind. I know it was quite a blow for you when your partner Jacob Marley died. But he may yet visit you, at least in spirit.

[LouisVanDerWright]

^^^ My favorite deal of TUP's was when we kicked all the kiddos out of the orphanage on Christmas TBH.

[the urban politician]

^ Nah. The cause in violence is the low character of the shameless scum who think it's okay to do drive by shootings in the presence of children.

And spare me the Scrooge analogy. Charity is not supposed to last forever. The CHA is eternal charity

[Skyguy_7]

You're not alone in thinking that way, TUP. Subsidized housing is only meant to be a temporary supplement to get people back on their feet, when in reality, it creates little incentive to move up and out. Teach a man to fish and you'll feed him for a lifetime. Give a man a fish, and he'll vote for you.

[UPChicago]

Originally Posted by IrishIllini

Possibly waiting for enough of the former residents to move on before developing fewer affordable units than required. Don't blame them if this is the approach. Plenty of areas in Chicago that aren't Englewood where people can find affordable housing. If you're a living government subsidy, you really don't have a say in where you're put...

How can one person be so ignorant and a fellow Illini at that?

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown

^One of the causes of the spike in violence is said to be that the big gangs (with fairly stable territories) were dispersed into disparate and often hostile neighborhoods when the old CHA projects were torn down.

Maybe part of it, but the "Heroin Highway" is currently one of the major issues and how many gangs are there selling and vying for drug money. Austin alone has over 13% of all city homicides this year (in 2006 at this time, that percentage was half of what it is today). When you add in the Garfield Parks and North Lawndale, it's 27% of all homicides in the city for a population of only about 173,000.Of course you also have West Englewood, Englewood, New City, Auburn Gresham, and Greater Grand Crossing together with a population of about 192,000 which make up about 30% of all city homicides this year. Such a disparity - but of course the media wouldn't pick up on that. They'd love everyone to believe the entire city is burning.

Interestingly enough though, crimes like Assaults are actually down from a decade ago even with this spike in crime. It's homicides that are up a bit to late-ish 90s numbers.

[Via Chicago]

Originally Posted by marothisu

Maybe part of it, but the "Heroin Highway" is currently one of the major issues and how many gangs are there selling and vying for drug money. Austin alone has over 13% of all city homicides this year (in 2006 at this time, that percentage was half of what it is today). When you add in the Garfield Parks and North Lawndale, it's 27% of all homicides in the city for a population of only about 173,000.Of course you also have West Englewood, Englewood, New City, Auburn Gresham, and Greater Grand Crossing together with a population of about 192,000 which make up about 30% of all city homicides this year. Such a disparity - but of course the media wouldn't pick up on that. They'd love everyone to believe the entire city is burning.

Who do you think is buying the drugs? News flash: its not confined to those living in the areas that serve as distribution hubs. Its all walks of life, from all income levels, from all parts of the city. Philip Seymour Hoffman died of a heroin overdose. Get this notion that its all just junkies laying on lower wacker out of your head. I know plenty of people making 6 figures who dont think twice about pulling out coke at a party...somehow theyre not demonized though. Funny how that works.

We are all CHICAGO. These issues are not confined by imaginary neighborhood boundaries. This city needs to take a long hard cold look in the mirror for why it is the way it is, and that includes citizens at every level. It certainly is a convenient argument to just say "those people" lack morals, while creating, reinforcing, and benefiting from the conditions that arise from having an oppressed underclass. Bunch of people born on third base thinking they hit home runs. (and before I get the inevitable "but i grew up poor and pulled myself up by my bootstraps!"...congratulations. maybe it would also be helpful to be cognizant of the fact that not everyone was born with the same abilities).

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by Via Chicago

Who do you think is buying the drugs? News flash: its not confined to those living in the areas that serve as distribution hubs. Its all walks of life, from all income levels, from all parts of the city. Philip Seymour Hoffman died of a heroin overdose. Get this notion that its all just junkies laying on lower wacker out of your head. I know plenty of people making 6 figures who dont think twice about pulling out coke at a party...somehow theyre not demonized though. Funny how that works.

We are all CHICAGO. These issues are not confined by imaginary neighborhood boundaries. This city needs to take a long hard cold look in the mirror for why it is the way it is, and that includes citizens at every level.

LOL - wait, when did I EVER say it is the people who live there buying? Anybody who knows anything about the Heroin Highway knows a lot of the demand comes from the suburbs actually (and a lot of the time it's more middle class white kids buying it up) and people from all walks of life use drugs. Do you seriously think I don't know this? At the end of the day, it's the market and the creation of that market in particular areas which is fucking up some communities.

At the end of the day, it is a narrative that needs to be told regardless of who's using the drugs. Maybe you're sensitive to it, but when you literally have 30% of all city homicides (and a lot of them) occurring in one area (well two areas, individually really), you have a huge issue whether it's economically at the core of it all or safety-wise. While it might be an issue with various city wide policies, it is still a story that needs to be told - unless you want to scare everyone into thinking that the entire city is dangerous when it's not, and actually a large part of it is not. You can debate all you want, but the facts speak for themselves. We can go into a huge discussion - yeah there's a market of all walks of life - everybody with half a brain who knows anything about crime and drugs knows this.


BTW - my brother is a former drug dealer, who was once addicted to Heroin for a little bit (NOT in Chicago area). I'm very well aware of this shit.

[Via Chicago]

Im mainly referring to comments like

Nah. The cause in violence is the low character of the shameless scum who think it's okay to do drive by shootings in the presence of children.

The CAUSE of the violence is a privileged class who dosent have to deal with the day to day shit on the ground. But thats an inconvenient truth.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by Via Chicago

Im mainly referring to comments like



The CAUSE of the violence is a privileged class who dosent have to deal with the day to day shit on the ground. But thats an inconvenient truth.

Well, no. I wouldn't say it's the entire "privileged class" - but a huge problem of it IS the people part of that privileged class who are contributing to the market which has a side effect of violence which is what you see especially in part in some areas on the west side especially. A lot of humans are inherantly "greedy" - i.e. they do what is best for themselves at the time without thinking of the consequences and sadly there's many people who buy drugs who don't realize the impact of it all in the current system.

As far as economics goes, job creation, job training, etc goes for certain people - that's a lot more complicated. Simply having money and maybe hiring people doesn't necessarily mean you're going to remedy part of that issue (i.e. the guy who might have a hungry family and might resort to desperate measures to feed them like robbing someone or a store, when they don't really want to) in the long run. That's the thing the city (and of course other cities) need to figure out but it's very complex.