Halifax Transit

[ns_kid]

Originally Posted by someone123

A certain local source reports that VIA rail has submitted a bid to operate commuter rail in the Halifax area, from the South End station ("downtown") to Beaver Bank.

Interestingly, the proposal involves a capital outlay much smaller than what was estimated in the recent commuter rail report commissioned by regional council.

Yes, AllNovaScotia is reporting that the city's transportation committee will meet next week to discuss a proposal from a third party whose name does not appear on the committee agenda.

Anything that kick starts this on-again, off-again discussion would be welcome. I have a healthy dose of scepticism but a proposal from Via would be worth full consideration. Via would have the advantage of an existing relationship and operating agreement with CN, though it's worth noting that relationship has often been rocky. On the other hand, Via has no particular experience as an operator of true commuter rail services.

What may be driving this in part is that Via has a number of stored RDCs (rail diesel cars) refurbished a few years ago by Industrial Rail Services in Moncton.

Via's president Yves Desjardins-Siciliano has been pushing a plan to use the RDCs for a new intercity run between Halifax, Moncton and Campbellton, ostensibly to augment the Ocean, which now operates only three days a week. (Some, of course, see this as a forerunner to drop the Ocean altogether; its 14-year old Renaissance fleet is badly in need of a refresh.)

I'm not sure how many RDCs VIA has on hand -- they reported six refurbished in 2011 and some are in use on northern Ontario routes -- but I wouldn't expect they have sufficient equipment to service both a Halifax commuter service and the intercity run. And it was recently reported that IRS, unable to find buyers, scrapped its remaining RDCs, so there's no more where those came from.

Via may be hedging its bets, recognizing that the current government is showing no more interest in boosting funding to Via than did the late, unlamented former government.


Interior of refurbished Via RDC #6217, including decorative hanging work lights:



Photo credit: Via

[Ziobrop]

Originally Posted by someone123

A certain local source reports that VIA rail has submitted a bid to operate commuter rail in the Halifax area, from the South End station ("downtown") to Beaver Bank.

Interestingly, the proposal involves a capital outlay much smaller than what was estimated in the recent commuter rail report commissioned by regional council.

tim outhit confirmed to me on twitter that there was an unsolicited commuter rail proposal from via.
this was unrelated to their previous comments about running a daily moncton halifax service.

Have you seen the proposal? is it posted somewhere?

[Ziobrop]

Originally Posted by ns_kid

Yes, AllNovaScotia is reporting that the city's transportation committee will meet next week to discuss a proposal from a third party whose name does not appear on the committee agenda.

Anything that kick starts this on-again, off-again discussion would be welcome. I have a healthy dose of scepticism but a proposal from Via would be worth full consideration. Via would have the advantage of an existing relationship and operating agreement with CN, though it's worth noting that relationship has often been rocky. On the other hand, Via has no particular experience as an operator of true commuter rail services.

What may be driving this in part is that Via has a number of stored RDCs (rail diesel cars) refurbished a few years ago by Industrial Rail Services in Moncton.

Via's president Yves Desjardins-Siciliano has been pushing a plan to use the RDCs for a new intercity run between Halifax, Moncton and Campbellton, ostensibly to augment the Ocean, which now operates only three days a week. (Some, of course, see this as a forerunner to drop the Ocean altogether; its 14-year old Renaissance fleet is badly in need of a refresh.)

I'm not sure how many RDCs VIA has on hand -- they reported six refurbished in 2011 and some are in use on northern Ontario routes -- but I wouldn't expect they have sufficient equipment to service both a Halifax commuter service and the intercity run. And it was recently reported that IRS, unable to find buyers, scrapped its remaining RDCs, so there's no more where those came from.

Via may be hedging its bets, recognizing that the current government is showing no more interest in boosting funding to Via than did the late, unlamented former government.


Interior of refurbished Via RDC #6217, including decorative hanging work lights:



Photo credit: Via

there were a stock of RDC's in moncton waiting to be refurbished, but they were all scrapped a few months ago- except one which was purchased by Rapido Trains and moved to ontario.

see http://rapidotrains.com/saving-6133-update/


FWIW Via does operate some trains in the Toronto area that are used as commuter runs.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Interesting.

Presumably VIA wouldn't go to the trouble of submitting a bid unless they had the means to follow through on it. Maybe the RDCs would be a cheap starting point for them, but one would think they'd have a longer-term plan in place for the future.

One question would be whether they would be planning to replace the second set set of tracks torn up a number of years ago, or share the single set (if allowed) with current traffic. If they would invest in the second set of tracks one would think that they are planning more long-term.

[IanWatson]

Everything I've heard about Yves Desjardins-Siciliano leads me to believe he's of the rare breed of execs who is truly invested in his organization's mission and is excited about what his organization could be. So colour me cautiously optimistic.

[sneakyzero]

http://www.metronews.ca/news/halifax/201...ter-rail-via-eyeing-service-for-hrm.html

On track for commuter rail? VIA eyeing service for HRM

Unsolicited proposal for service from Windsor Junction to Halifax will be presented to HRM committee on Thursday


By: Yvette d'Entremont Metro Published on Fri Jul 15 2016

An unsolicited proposal made by VIA Rail to HRM that will be presented to a standing committee next week has re-ignited discussion about a commuter rail service.

“We’re calling it an unsolicited proposal for lack of a better word but it’s probably a pre-proposal, to be honest,” Bedford Coun. Tim Outhit said in an interview on Friday.
Outhit has long been a proponent of a commuter rail service that would connect his growing community to the downtown and ease some of its traffic woes.

He said VIA’s unsolicited proposal for a service that would run from Windsor Junction to downtown Halifax will be presented to HRM’s transportation standing committee next Thursday.

It would then go to Regional Council for approval, and from there, Outhit hopes, be approved so staff can enter into negotiations with VIA.

“They (VIA Rail) would definitely like to discuss with us the possibility of running a commuter rail service for us, several times a day into downtown and out, and maybe some mid-day service as well at substantially less cost than was anticipated by the recent (Commuter Rail Feasability) Study,” Outhit said.

Although he couldn’t get into specifics, Outhit said if it went ahead, the commuter service would likely include the same seven stops proposed in the recent commuter rail study undertaken by the municipality.

If approved, he believes the service could be up in running in a year or less.

“It’s exciting because these folks know how to run a railroad and we’ve been looking for a partner,” he said.

In addition to helping resolve some of the traffic issues facing residents in his district, Outhit said the commuter rail plan would benefit other suburban residents in addition to businesses in the downtown core.

“It’s great that we have all these nice new buildings and businesses (downtown) and I support that. But with all of this construction going on there, unless we make it easier for people to get there, they’re of no help if they’re empty,” he said.

“This would be beneficial for people stuck in traffic from Fall River to Clayton Park, and beneficial for the downtown by getting more people down there to shop and play and to work.

[curnhalio]

If they want to take on the risk, more power to them. The biggest hurdle by far to commuter rail has been the on-going feud between CN and the city. A private partner with a working relationship with CN would seem to remove that hurdle. I hope they can be successful with it.

[TheNovaScotian]

I've been hoping for something like this to happen for a long time!

What a great couple months, a potential stadium and commuter rail coming from private proposals!!!


Here's some headlines from the haters
http://www.metronews.ca/news/halifax/201...nion-president-concerned-light-rail.html

[ns_kid]

Originally Posted by TheNovaScotian

Here's some headlines from the haters
http://www.metronews.ca/news/halifax/201...nion-president-concerned-light-rail.html

Naturally...because the first word that comes to mind when I think of Via Rail is "profit".

Of course, to be clear, Via's employees are all union members. Just not Mr. Wilson's union.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by TheNovaScotian

I've been hoping for something like this to happen for a long time!

What a great couple months, a potential stadium and commuter rail coming from private proposals!!!


Here's some headlines from the haters
http://www.metronews.ca/news/halifax/201...nion-president-concerned-light-rail.html

I share your sentiment!

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by ns_kid

Naturally...because the first word that comes to mind when I think of Via Rail is "profit".

Of course, to be clear, Via's employees are all union members. Just not Mr. Wilson's union.

VIA Rail operates with a 50 percent nationwide fare recovery; Halifax Transit is about 40 percent. Not exactly worlds apart, and VIA certainly isn't a "private" operator entering into this with an expectation of farebox profit. This is some fairly transparent rhetoric from the ATU. I understand the need to defend union interests, but this seems like a big over-reach. I don't see ATU as being particularly threatened by this.

It's pretty ridiculous: We have is a union that appears to prefer to keep people on inefficient local bus services or on congested highways, because they believe it will mean more hours behind the wheel for their members. Unions are inherently conservative entities, but there really seems to be absolutely no understanding of how bad they look taking these kinds of patently self-serving positions.

I will be curious to see what the rates are like (I expect higher than Halifax Transit, but low enough that it will be cheaper for regular commuters to leave their cars at home).

[sneakyzero]

http://www.metronews.ca/news/halifax/201...akes-commuter-rail-to-the-next-stop.html

Halifax regional council votes to take commuter rail to the next stop


On Tuesday night, council voted to direct staff to begin negotiations with Via Rail for a commuter rail service between Windsor Junction and downtown Halifax.

By: Zane Woodford Metro Published on Tue Aug 02 2016


Halifax Regional Municipality is on track to commuter rail.

On Tuesday night, Halifax regional council voted unanimously to direct staff to begin negotiations with Via Rail for a commuter rail service between Windsor Junction and downtown Halifax.

“Staff is now allowed to go back and ask questions and negotiate and explore the unsolicited pre-proposal or expression of interest that we received regarding commuter rail,” said Coun. Tim Outhit after the meeting.

Outhit believes the discussions will take a couple months, and if an agreement can be found between the two parties, a service could be on the rails within a year.

“Our gut feeling is Via is probably more ready than we are,” said Coun. Barry Dalrymple after the meeting, adding that the municipality would have to build platforms and Park and Ride lots.

Outhit said the service Via has pitched would be exactly the same as the one detailed in a CPCS study last year that said commuter rail wasn’t feasible in the municipality due to its cost.

“The public knows what the service is because it’s public from the CPCS study,” he said.

The difference this time, he said, is that Via Rail says it can make it happen for less money.

At the time of that CPCS study, Dalrymple wanted the service to extend to Enfield, but said Tuesday he can live with the fact that this proposal wouldn’t do that.

“It can be expanded distance-wise, it can be expanded the amount of runs, all of those kind of things,” he said. “But we’ll never know if we don’t at least get it started.”

[Hali87]

This is stranger than fiction:

Halifax regional council moves ahead with guns for bus tickets plan

[ILoveHalifax]

Originally Posted by Hali87

This is stranger than fiction:

Halifax regional council moves ahead with guns for bus tickets plan

Time for a new mayor, police chief and city council.


If this is the best they can come up with they are out of ideas and anybody who is out of ideas needs to be replaced

[TheGreenBastard]

I have some additional info on the VIA commuter rail project. I have a photo of a map taken from the desk of a senior planner for HRM.

I dont want to get in — for leaking info though...

[sneakyzero]

Originally Posted by TheGreenBastard

I have some additional info on the VIA commuter rail project. I have a photo of a map taken from the desk of a senior planner for HRM.

I dont want to get in — for leaking info though...

I wouldn't leak photo if I was you. Don't get yourself in trouble unless that is what you intend to do, or want to risk doing.


On a curious note.. Is there actually a lot of changes to the map though compared to the previous commuter rail study? The rail line is pretty straight forward. It runs from the South End through the rail cut, to Armdale, to Rockingham, and along the Bedford Basin outwards. It's also all owned by CN Rail.

Some of the (my) main outlying questions are the timeline of project, how far the line is going (Windsor Junction?, Beaverbank?, Elmsdale?), station setups, and the costs associated with this project.

Don't be compelled to answer my curious questions if you don't know or if you don't want to get in trouble.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by sneakyzero

Some of the (my) main outlying questions are the timeline of project, how far the line is going (Windsor Junction?, Beaverbank?, Elmsdale?), station setups, and the costs associated with this project.

There is also the possibility of an extension from the South End terminal into the downtown, maybe along Hollis. That would be interesting and would probably make the route more useful but also seems unlikely, particularly given that the VIA proposal is supposed to have lower costs.

Still, I think that when it comes to transit the optimal plan (value for dollar) is often not the cheapest one. Unfortunately in NS the cheapest option is often treated as the only option.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by sneakyzero

Some of the (my) main outlying questions are the timeline of project, how far the line is going (Windsor Junction?, Beaverbank?, Elmsdale?), station setups, and the costs associated with this project.

Windsor Junction, in the case of the VIA proposal, which is ideal, IMO. It terminates before the sparsely populated exurbia closer to Hants County, and is therefore likely to be cheaper and less likely to provide incentive for additional sprawl WAY out there.

Sending the thing out to Elmsdale always seemed like a great way to stimulate "transit-oriented" sprawl and radically drive up costs to service a marginal number of additional commuters.

[TheGreenBastard]

Originally Posted by sneakyzero

I wouldn't leak photo if I was you. Don't get yourself in trouble unless that is what you intend to do, or want to risk doing.


On a curious note.. Is there actually a lot of changes to the map though compared to the previous commuter rail study? The rail line is pretty straight forward. It runs from the South End through the rail cut, to Armdale, to Rockingham, and along the Bedford Basin outwards. It's also all owned by CN Rail.

Some of the (my) main outlying questions are the timeline of project, how far the line is going (Windsor Junction?, Beaverbank?, Elmsdale?), station setups, and the costs associated with this project.

Don't be compelled to answer my curious questions if you don't know or if you don't want to get in trouble.

I'm not sure how much I can say without getting in some kind of legal trouble. But here's some info that people might not know:

There are 8 "very likely" stations, the main and only downtown station is the existing via rail station, and 6 "possible alternatives".

There's a lot of letters and numbers that mean nothing to me. If I can decode anything else I'll post more.

[Hali87]

Originally Posted by someone123

There is also the possibility of an extension from the South End terminal into the downtown, maybe along Hollis. That would be interesting and would probably make the route more useful but also seems unlikely, particularly given that the VIA proposal is supposed to have lower costs.

Still, I think that when it comes to transit the optimal plan (value for dollar) is often not the cheapest one. Unfortunately in NS the cheapest option is often treated as the only option.

The reduced costs could come from the fact that VIA would presumably have lower capital costs and probably don't have to worry about certain things like the dispute between HRM and CN over bridge maintenance. Wage structure etc. would also probably be determined by VIA as opposed to Halifax Transit which could conceivably save some money.