Canadian Airport Thread

[hipster duck]

There comes a point where a "low cost" carrier becomes a complete nuisance.

For example, Newleaf now offers a flight from Abbotsford to Hamilton to compete with the usual YVR-YYZ. It costs $421, tax included, before baggage fees.

But here are the caveats:

i) there are only 3 flights a week;

ii) you can only book a flight a month in advance;

iii) the return flight leaves at 12:20 and arrives at 16:20 effectively ruining an entire day for business or leisure;

iv) while I understand the cost savings of not flying to Pearson or YVR, the airports that they substitute really are niche markets. Even if the origin airport is a better location for you, you'd better have some ground transportation arranged on the other end;

v) a carry on bag costs $31.50.

Looking at the same dates, I find that I can fly from YVR-YYZ on Westjet at a reasonable time (preserving a day for sightseeing or business on either end) for $534. 1 week of parking at YXX is $54, whereas 1 week of parking at a YVR Park n' Fly is $66 (usually less, because it's not hard to find a coupon).

So I suppose that Newleaf appeals to people who are willing to kill an entire productive day, have someone willing to pick them up at a remote airport, only fly on a Monday, Wednesday or Friday and want to save about a hundred dollars.

[jmt18325]

Originally Posted by casper

JetsGO, Greyhound, Canada 3000, Royal, CanJet have all tried this model in Canada and they have not been able to make it work. WestJet did, but they focused on a single route Vancouver-Calgary at a time when Canadian Airlines was in trouble and starting to merge with Air Canada.

And I'm not sure that they're making money (though their model isn't the same as any of those). What I'm saying is that they are cheaper. There's no debating that. On most days, 2 people plus 1 bag can fly from YWG to YYJ and back for the price of 1 person on Air Canada.

[SkydivePilot]

Originally Posted by casper

When I had a few days ago they were asking $99 each way. Plus you add in fee for carry on baggage, the fee for checked baggage, the fee for printing a boarding pass at the airport. In short order it is the same if not more than Air Canada or WestJet.

I don't think New Leaf is going to last long at all.

They've forgotten "JetsGo." History has a nasty way of repeating itself.

[urbanroo]

Originally Posted by casper

When I had a few days ago they were asking $99 each way. Plus you add in fee for carry on baggage, the fee for checked baggage, the fee for printing a boarding pass at the airport. In short order it is the same if not more than Air Canada or WestJet.

I don't think New Leaf is going to last long at all.

I'm pretty budget conscious and have had two chances where I could have booked New Leaf but I chickened out and went with Westjet instead. For a bit more money I can be sure the airline still exists when I fly it. If I ever were to fly on New Leaf I'd forget about carry-on and pack a large suitcase to check; their fees for checked bags are no more than Westjet or Air Canada's. I think people are fixating on the carry-on fees too much, and they can be easily avoided.

[urbanroo]

More flights for Vancouver: AC YVR-DFW

http://aircanada.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=1051

[Jaws]

Originally Posted by casper

JetsGO, Greyhound, Canada 3000, Royal, CanJet have all tried this model in Canada and they have not been able to make it work. WestJet did, but they focused on a single route Vancouver-Calgary at a time when Canadian Airlines was in trouble and starting to merge with Air Canada.

WestJet started with 5 cities, not 2. It launched 5 years before CAI merged with AC.

[casper]

Originally Posted by Jaws

WestJet started with 5 cities, not 2. It launched 5 years before CAI merged with AC.

Those were five years when Canadian was struggling and basically in trouble. The military was trying to help out buy the A310s. Eventually all this leading to a merger with Air Canada. Some other concepts were also floating around with American providing money to Canadian so it could buy Air Canada. Basically the two main airlines were in trouble.

Ok, so its five cities with three aircraft. All the flights are what between 1 and 1 1/2 hours. That still lets you serve most cities at lest daily or twice daily.

My point is NewLeaf is serving routes 2-3 times were week and with a network from BC to Ontario.

[ghYHZ]

Originally Posted by casper

........with a network from BC to Ontario.

Ever looked at their route map??

http://gonewleaf.ca/travel-info/route-map-south/

They also serve YQM and YHZ and those cities are in the Maritimes.

[thenoflyzone]

Customs congestion at YUL getting worse. 2h - 2h30 wait is now the norm at peak arrival time of 4 to 7 pm.

http://globalnews.ca/news/2926790/trudeau-airport-plagued-by-long-delays-at-customs/

"20,000 passengers are processed at Trudeau airport everyday and 7,000 of those passengers go through customs between the hours of 4 p.m. and 7 p.m."

"Representatives for the Customs and Immigration Union say that a hiring freeze – implemented by the previous Conservative government – has led to staff shortages."

Another piece of article in french.

http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/montre...lais-aux-douanes-de-montreal-trudeau.php

From what I've been noticing, even with the extension of the international jetty, all the gates are fully occupied from 4 pm til about 9 pm. As the global article says, the customs hall isn't designed to handle 7,000 passengers within a few hours. Transat routinely has to park their planes at remote stands to make room for all the international carriers. It is not uncommon to see 23-24 heavies on the ground between 4 and 7 pm. The apron gets congested very easily, as the heavies can only use the north ramp to taxi in/out.

All in all, a badly designed airport, handling traffic it was never meant to handle.

Cue the "Mirabel should have never closed" comments in 3....2.....1.....

[casper]

Originally Posted by ghYHZ

Ever looked at their route map??

http://gonewleaf.ca/travel-info/route-map-south/

They also serve YQM and YHZ and those cities are in the Maritimes.

So its even worse. Forgot about those two. An airline stretch coast to coast, severing a large network of routes each a few times per week.

[casper]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

Customs congestion at YUL getting worse. 2h - 2h30 wait is now the norm at peak arrival time of 4 to 7 pm.

http://globalnews.ca/news/2926790/trudeau-airport-plagued-by-long-delays-at-customs/

"20,000 passengers are processed at Trudeau airport everyday and 7,000 of those passengers go through customs between the hours of 4 p.m. and 7 p.m."

"Representatives for the Customs and Immigration Union say that a hiring freeze – implemented by the previous Conservative government – has led to staff shortages."

Another piece of article in french.

http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/montre...lais-aux-douanes-de-montreal-trudeau.php

From what I've been noticing, even with the extension of the international jetty, all the gates are fully occupied from 4 pm til about 9 pm. As the global article says, the customs hall isn't designed to handle 7,000 passengers within a few hours. Transat routinely has to park their planes at remote stands to make room for all the international carriers. It is not uncommon to see 23-24 heavies on the ground between 4 and 7 pm. The apron gets congested very easily, as the heavies can only use the north ramp to taxi in/out.

All in all, a badly designed airport, handling traffic it was never meant to handle.

Cue the "Mirabel should have never closed" comments in 3....2.....1.....

Does YUL have passport kiosk in Canada customs. I am surprised the difference they made as a passenger going through Vancouver.

[G.S MTL]

Originally Posted by casper

Does YUL have passport kiosk in Canada customs. I am surprised the difference they made as a passenger going through Vancouver.

yeah... if you have a Canadian passport you mean?? they have Kiosks in customs area

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by casper

Does YUL have passport kiosk in Canada customs. I am surprised the difference they made as a passenger going through Vancouver.

There are 40 self serve kiosks, but it isn't enough during peak hours.

[SFUVancouver]

I hadn't realized that customs at YUL was in such a congested state at peak times. The automated passport kiosks definitely accelerate the processing of Canadian passport holders; I am usually through customs at YVR in about 5 minutes when returning from abroad, even with several long-haul widebodies arriving within minutes of each other. But with the former Conservative government's hiring freeze on customs staff (has this been rectified by the Liberals?) primarily affecting the processing of foreign passport holders, while leaving Canadians largely unscathed, I suspect that there hasn't been sufficient impetus to fix the situation. Not a great first impression of Canada.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

I hadn't realized that customs at YUL was in such a congested state at peak times. The automated passport kiosks definitely accelerate the processing of Canadian passport holders; I am usually through customs at YVR in about 5 minutes when returning from abroad, even with several long-haul widebodies arriving within minutes of each other. But with the former Conservative government's hiring freeze on customs staff (has this been rectified by the Liberals?) primarily affecting the processing of foreign passport holders, while leaving Canadians largely unscathed, I suspect that there hasn't been sufficient impetus to fix the situation. Not a great first impression of Canada.

I wouldn't expect a change until the Electronic Travel Authorization implementation at the end of the year either solves or doesn't solve the problem.

[CalgaryCheese]

WS 27 from London England to Edmonton diverted to Iceland. Perhaps another 767 tech issue?

[DrNest]

Originally Posted by CalgaryCheese

WS 27 from London England to Edmonton diverted to Iceland. Perhaps another 767 tech issue?

Problem with the left engine. Held at FL110 for nearly two hours to burn off fuel then landed in Keflavik. Apparently a B737 has been sent to get passengers back to Edmonton.

http://avherald.com/h?article=49dd00dd&opt=0

[CalgaryCheese]

Originally Posted by DrNest

Problem with the left engine. Held at FL110 for nearly two hours to burn off fuel then landed in Keflavik. Apparently a B737 has been sent to get passengers back to Edmonton.

http://avherald.com/h?article=49dd00dd&opt=0

Apparently the rescue flight is flying from YYC to KEF to pick them up. Is that even within range of the 737? Seems awfully far!

[DrNest]

The great circle route from CYYC to BIKF is 2780nm. Actual flight route will be a bit longer than that, but likely under 3000nm, certainly well within range of a B737.

However, I'm more interested in the difference in seats. A WestJet B737 seats 118 in Economy and 12 in Plus. Their B763 seats 238 in Economy and 24 in Plus. Assuming no-one is left behind in Keflavik waiting for another plane, that implies a lot of empty seats on the 767.

[CalgaryCheese]

Originally Posted by DrNest

The great circle route from CYYC to BIKF is 2780nm. Actual flight route will be a bit longer than that, but likely under 3000nm, certainly well within range of a B737.

However, I'm more interested in the difference in seats. A WestJet B737 seats 118 in Economy and 12 in Plus. Their B763 seats 238 in Economy and 24 in Plus. Assuming no-one is left behind in Keflavik waiting for another plane, that implies a lot of empty seats on the 767.

Apparently Westjet sent a second rescue flight to KEF to pick up the remaining stranded passengers.