Expo Line - Surrey Langley Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[BobLoblawsLawBlog]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

The route from Waterfront to King George will become exclusively "the Expo line"

Wait, didn't Translink just put up signs on older 80's stations that it was part Expo part Millenium?

[xd_1771]

Speaking of bus service changes the 501 (104th Ave, through service to Carvolth/200th St) will be changing to an express route on Sept 5; it will be mimicking 96 B-Line service by using the same stops, with a travel time of 7-10 minutes. According to new schedule http://infomaps.translink.ca/Public_Timetables/125/tt501.pdf

And in one swift move TransLink dropped a service improvement on 104 Ave that's bigger than what the $1 billion L Line will offer...

[Millennium2002]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

Speaking of bus service changes the 501 (104th Ave, through service to Carvolth/200th St) will be changing to an express route on Sept 5; it will be mimicking 96 B-Line service by using the same stops, with a travel time of 7-10 minutes. According to new schedule http://infomaps.translink.ca/Public_Timetables/125/tt501.pdf

And in one swift move TransLink dropped a service improvement on 104 Ave that's bigger than what the $1 billion L Line will offer...

Ehh... I'd have to disagree on whether this is a local service improvement or not; the frequency between the two points remains the same yes/no? Certainly this will benefit riders heading to/from points beyond Surrey Central and Guildford as the ride will be faster from not stopping as much.

[Express691]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

Speaking of bus service changes the 501 (104th Ave, through service to Carvolth/200th St) will be changing to an express route on Sept 5; it will be mimicking 96 B-Line service by using the same stops, with a travel time of 7-10 minutes. According to new schedule http://infomaps.translink.ca/Public_Timetables/125/tt501.pdf

And in one swift move TransLink dropped a service improvement on 104 Ave that's bigger than what the $1 billion L Line will offer...

This means 501 will sign as an express between surrey central and Guildford. In addition, the 509 schedule is non existent at the moment and the 590 is cut back as a peak hour community shuttle(??) route between Langley and Brookswood

[go_leafs_go02]

Originally Posted by Express691

This means 501 will sign as an express between surrey central and Guildford. In addition, the 509 schedule is non existent at the moment and the 590 is cut back as a peak hour community shuttle(??) route between Langley and Brookswood

On 104 Avenue:

320 uses all stops (it's already FTN)
96 / 501 uses the B-Line stops.
337 / 509 travel non-stop.
590 is cut.

The 509 schedule is now out. No change compared to the summer. perhaps this can start to be run in both directions, especially between Carvolth and Surrey Central during the peak hour.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by BobLoblawsLawBlog

Wait, didn't Translink just put up signs on older 80's stations that it was part Expo part Millenium?

All the stations between Waterfront and New West are "part Expo part Millenium" (sp) and have been since the Millennium line opened

Until the Evergreen Extension opens.
Then all stations between Waterfront and King George are exclusively Expo.

If Translink recently put up new signs in an original station, was it part of a station refresh / refurb (like Main St) ?

[swimmer_spe]

With May being the latest the election can be held, and the Evergreen Extension opening in December, which extension do you think will be announced that would garner the most votes?

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

With May being the latest the election can be held, and the Evergreen Extension opening in December, which extension do you think will be announced that would garner the most votes?

Announcing Skytrain extensions would get the most votes except from a few neighborhoods that never benefit from them (eg Delta)

If they announce going forward on LRT, then I expect it won't affect the election outcome in Surrey but it will negatively affect the election outcome in Langley since they are getting screwed then.


source: http://bc-ebc.ca/docs/reports/BC-EBC_Final_Report-Sept_24,_2015.pdf

Note how a proposed Skytrain extension to Langley would go through 6 electoral areas. That's an no-brainer.

White Rock residents also get screwed if it's an LRT to Newton, so there's 6 electoral areas affected by that as well.

In fact if you look at the last voting results, Surrey-Whalley, Surrey-Green Timbers and Surrey-Newton (all who would benefit from the proposed LRT) all went NDP.


As for the UBC extension, Vancouver-Fairview, and Vancouver-Point Grey(includes UEL) are the only two areas affected. David Eby (NDP) seems to be a fairly secure seat for Point Grey. Vancouver-Fairview also went NDP last time. So you can see why this might be a large carrot.

This also explains the logic behind the Transit referendum as the neighborhoods that would benefit most all currently held by NDP.

[Kisai]

Another reason why Surrey needs to stop looking at Portland

http://reason.com/blog/2016/09/09/portland-lightrail

TriMet has explained that the delays were the result of a phenomenon known as "sun kinking," which is when higher-than-usual temperatures cause rail and power lines to expand and buckle, forcing trains to reduce speeds or stop running altogether.

This explanation has been the standard response from TriMet over the years, but as the Willamette Week (a weekly Portland newspaper) was quick to point out, plenty of other light rail systems in the country experience similar or hotter temperatures without the same service interruptions.

Phoenix, Arizona, routinely sees temperatures far in excess of Portland's. However, its Valley Metro light rail service has proven immune to heat-related service delays. Valley Metro Public Information Specialist Ann Glaser writes in an email that Phoenix's system has been able to avoid such problems by setting its tracks in concrete and calibrating its power cables to withstand high temperatures, things she says it was able to do without a significant increase in construction costs.

Given how often Surrey points to Portland as the system they want, here is a design consideration that has to be made NOW.

[Bdawe]

Originally Posted by Kisai

Another reason why Surrey needs to stop looking at Portland

http://reason.com/blog/2016/09/09/portland-lightrail


Given how often Surrey points to Portland as the system they want, here is a design consideration that has to be made NOW.

Given that the Surrey LRT system is supposed to be in the middle of the road, I would be surprised if it wasn't set in concrete or masonry, though it could be ballasted (tracks on gravel). Portland's Max has extensive ballasted private right of way, such as when it runs along the freeway. It's supposed to be a lot cheaper to lay rails on ballast than to do concrete slab track (though maintenance requirements go up), and the primary reason that the skytrain is all-slab is because of the low tolerances of the linear motors for deviations.

The thing is that Tri-met is right - the rails should be calibrated to the local climate, and just because it gets hot somewhere doesn't mean that they've solved the sun kink issue. When the rails are laid, ideally they are heated to an optimized temperature so that they do not kink on forseeably hot days, but also so that they do not become overly strained on forseeably cold days. The more viable your temperatures, the more difficult this is.

[logicbomb]

The day LRT is built in Surrey will be the day the Asian Center finally sees a tenant. So in other words...never.

[Trainguy]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

The day LRT is built in Surrey will be the day the Asian Center finally sees a tenant. So in other words...never.

AMEN

Surrey LRT is a huge waste of money. Buses already cover that route well enough and LRT will be subject to the same traffic lights. Switching technologies makes no sense at all.

Skytrain to Langley Centre is the next smartest extension behind UBC. They can do these in stages. Langley will be an expensive stretch because it is so long but it will also serve a large and growing population. UBC is a no brainer since so many students commute due to the high cost of rent.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

The day LRT is built in Surrey will be the day the Asian Center finally sees a tenant. So in other words...never.

Your post prompted to me to Google this and wow, that was interesting! I can't imagine a building like this going empty in Vancouver for such a long time...

[retro_orange]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Your post prompted to me to Google this and wow, that was interesting! I can't imagine a building like this going empty in Vancouver for such a long time...

I remember when i lived in the area 2006-2008, at first it was poorly maintained but in that period they did some basic finishing work to the interior. Just some drywall and escalator installation, cleaned up the landscaping, put in a few fake window displays and some better advertising. It was always surrounded by temporary fencing and it's in a very obtuse area. Right in between Surrey central and Guildford, surrounded mostly by crummy old houses, empty lots and a few old retail strips. The worst part of it all is the American investor who bought it; he won't budge on the type of tenant he wants in the building.

[Trainguy]

Originally Posted by retro_orange

I remember when i lived in the area 2006-2008, at first it was poorly maintained but in that period they did some basic finishing work to the interior. Just some drywall and escalator installation, cleaned up the landscaping, put in a few fake window displays and some better advertising. It was always surrounded by temporary fencing and it's in a very obtuse area. Right in between Surrey central and Guildford, surrounded mostly by crummy old houses, empty lots and a few old retail strips. The worst part of it all is the American investor who bought it; he won't budge on the type of tenant he wants in the building.

Not only that... he refuses to sell it. He calls it an investment for the future. In the mean time, it continues to sit empty 16 years later... The Surrey Leader has a update article on this very issue...

[retro_orange]

Originally Posted by Trainguy

Not only that... he refuses to sell it. He calls it an investment for the future. In the mean time, it continues to sit empty 16 years later... The Surrey Leader has a update article on this very issue...

It was completed in 1998, likely started construction right about 20 years ago now. Lawyers shouldn't be property speculators anyway, they're too inflexible and set in their own head-space; as is quite apparent with this situation.

Article from a week ago: http://www.thenownewspaper.com/news/392039281.html

Surrey church group has big dreams for long-vacant building on 104th Avenue


pic from article, That sign looks like the same one from when i lived in the area!

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by Kisai

Another reason why Surrey needs to stop looking at Portland

http://reason.com/blog/2016/09/09/portland-lightrail


Given how often Surrey points to Portland as the system they want, here is a design consideration that has to be made NOW.

I was in Portland last week, waiting for the Max downtown, and I had to wait 15 minutes for one to come at 4 in the afternoon on a weekday. With that sort of frequency a B-Line would do better.

[Shift]

^Doesn't sound much worse than SkyTrain on a weekend. Typically a 10 min wait for one at Surrey Central on any given Saturday or Sunday. The platform is usually crowded by the time a train comes and is standing room only from the get go.

Weekend volumes on Skytrain are approaching weekday peak levels yet TransLink continues to operate on reduced service, and run what seems to be majority older trains. Not sure what the point of more buying more/new trains is if theyre just going to sit at the maintenance yard when demand is high.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

I was in Portland last week, waiting for the Max downtown, and I had to wait 15 minutes for one to come at 4 in the afternoon on a weekday. With that sort of frequency a B-Line would do better.

To be completely fair, LRT doesn't have to have such low frequencies. There are a whole lot of other reasons why it's terrible though.

Originally Posted by Shift

^Doesn't sound much worse than SkyTrain on a weekend. Typically a 10 min wait for one at Surrey Central on any given Saturday or Sunday. The platform is usually crowded by the time a train comes and is standing room only from the get go.

Weekend volumes on Skytrain are approaching weekday peak levels yet TransLink continues to operate on reduced service, and run what seems to be majority older trains. Not sure what the point of more buying more/new trains is if theyre just going to sit at the maintenance yard when demand is high.

Actually weekend volumes on SkyTrain are approaching weekday off-peak levels, but yes, the service is still reduced compared to that. TransLink has acknowledged this in their latest Transit Service Performance Review: Page 20-21 (http://www.translink.ca/-/media/Document...sit%20Service%20Performance%20Review.pdf). Whether anything is done about this is a different matter.

[swimmer_spe]

The plan now is a LRT. Would a Skytrain line with a branch covering all of where the LRT wast to go be more viable?

Can the LRT use the same cars as the Skytrain so that the busier part can continue to Waterfront?