CHICAGO | General Developments

[harryc]

Aug 17

location location location

Sept 06

Where they will keep the programmers.

Sept 07

[Mr Downtown]

Originally Posted by Hayward

they demolished a nice limestone wall that screened Wacker. I'm assuming because it would cost money to maintain it.

More, I think, because it was attached to the supports for the upper level, which all went away when the S-curve was straightened. There was no longer anything to hold the limestone up.

The 1983 Central Area Plan (mostly Skidmore work) suggested a row of townhouses to hide the ramps, and there was some talk in the Liz Hollander era about an RFP for the scheme, but nothing further came of it.

[denizen467]

I never realized - and Crain's and the mayor haven't really emphasized - that a very large amount of this west loop explosion is a multiplier effect of the McDonald's move.

Sterling Bay also wants to add enough new office space in Fulton Market, including a new building on land the firm bought from Coyne College, to accommodate as much as 1 million square feet of new demand from suburban vendors that want to move downtown to be close to McDonald's, Gloor said.

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/realestat...chicagos-tallest-towers-at-union-station

[the urban politician]

^ You've got to wonder how many jobs, either directly from employed individuals, as well as independent contractors, all of that spillover effect will build.

You've got to imagine that the demand for hotels and residences is going to go up in the West Loop. I mean, practically speaking it's not any less situated for growth then River North. It's just as close to the 2 biggest commuter stations, it has 2 L lines running either through or adjacent to the neighborhood, it's very close to 2 major expressways. Ripe for a boom.

What's needed is to somehow make it more convenient for north siders using the train to get there. And it's not convenient to the commuter depots in the east Loop.

[marothisu]

1) ELEVATE in Lincoln Park got its building permit yesterday - 10 stories, 191 units, commercial, retail, etc.

Refresher: http://chicago.curbed.com/2016/3/18/11261858/elevate-lincoln-park-demolition

2) First building of 8 for 50 new townhomes got a permit in Logan Square around Homer & Campbell (a little west of Western & Milwaukee) two days ago too. This is the property that the community thought might be able to get rid of some gang activity in that area:

https://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20150929...ace-factory-near-blue-lines-western-stop

Google Street View: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9166476,...sVHuZwf29tVSiQGo15Fraug!2e0?source=apiv3

3) Building at 18th and Halsted in Pilsen (1800 S Ashland) is going to add 14 units to the existing 2 floors above the Payless Shoes.

4) Brooklyn Bowl in West Loop got permits to do a buildout. I was near the building last weekend and it looks like the structure is almost done.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

You guys are right, its a beautiful piece of infrastructure. No problem here.

i wasn't saying that it was a beautiful piece of infrastructure, i was just poking fun at your hyperbolic "horrendous civic disgrace" phrasing.

[Busy Bee]

Guilty as charged

[maru2501]

the bad news is the loft area of fulton market/west loop already is truly a parking horror show. So I won't be opposed to more internalized deck parking at mcds. I tried to stop at a law firm the other day and had to park virtually at ashland eight blocks away. There simply was zero street parking. should have expensed a cab but already had a car. Could have just walked from my office faster

[brian_b]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

What's needed is to somehow make it more convenient for north siders using the train to get there.

If they have problems they can move to the south side or the west side.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by brian_b

If they have problems they can move to the south side or the west side.

Loop Connector would make it easier for those in River North and Streeterville (and North Loop) to get to at least close-ish without having to transfer (but unfortunately not to the core of West Loop prime). I believe it would link up with the Ashland stop, OTC, Union Station, etc.

[SamInTheLoop]

I'm going to bring this back to the thread here, as it really isn't concerned with the Union Station proposal:

Originally Posted by ardecila

I read the article as a 500-space new parking garage in the Fulton Market area, not the Union Station area. It would provide parking for the various new office developments over there. Looks like not everyone wants to take the Green/Pink Lines or a shuttle to Metra. Anecdotally, it sounds like existing Fulton Market tenants like Google, SRAM, etc are frustrated, and potential tenants concerned, about a parking shortage in the area.

That's correct re the parking garage - it has nothing to do with Union Station....it's a Fulton Market thing. I'm surprised actually that no one else picked up on it, but it was mentioned (perhaps I saw in dnainfo or the likes) that the stand-alone garage is actually part of the McDonald's deal, as far as I know.......when folks were praising the low number of spaces at McDonald's itself, they were missing that this garage would be built. Who could have guessed that when you build large-scale office in locations that don't lend themselves to it from a transit perspective, you would also need to build large garages?? Expect more of these to be built - perhaps many more - to correspond to any additional large-scale office growth that isn't easily walkable from single train trip destination stations with origination point broadly throughout the 9 mil+ pop Chicago metro area.........I suppose as it turns out, not everyone is biking to work these days from Wicker Park to Fulton Market........

[k1052]

Originally Posted by SamInTheLoop

That's correct re the parking garage - it has nothing to do with Union Station....it's a Fulton Market thing. I'm surprised actually that no one else picked up on it, but it was mentioned (perhaps I saw in dnainfo or the likes) that the stand-alone garage is actually part of the McDonald's deal, as far as I know.......when folks were praising the low number of spaces at McDonald's itself, they were missing that this garage would be built. Who could have guessed that when you build large-scale office in locations that don't lend themselves to it from a transit perspective, you would also need to build large garages?? Expect more of these to be built - perhaps many more - to correspond to any additional large-scale office growth that isn't easily walkable from single train trip destination stations with origination point broadly throughout the 9 mil+ pop Chicago metro area.........I suppose as it turns out, not everyone is biking to work these days from Wicker Park to Fulton Market........

SB and others will build only the parking required to satisfy the decision makers. That certainly doesn't include a stall in the basement for every worker bee in each office. If they want to add millions of office square feet obviously some parking will need to be built but not anything near the scale you're claiming will start going up.

About half our office drives but has to park in one of the nearly perpetually empty Fifield built apartment garages a few blocks away. This is no bigger an imposition than the folks using Metra with equal or greater walks.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by SamInTheLoop

I'm going to bring this back to the thread here, as it really isn't concerned with the Union Station proposal:



That's correct re the parking garage - it has nothing to do with Union Station....it's a Fulton Market thing. I'm surprised actually that no one else picked up on it, but it was mentioned (perhaps I saw in dnainfo or the likes) that the stand-alone garage is actually part of the McDonald's deal, as far as I know.......when folks were praising the low number of spaces at McDonald's itself, they were missing that this garage would be built. Who could have guessed that when you build large-scale office in locations that don't lend themselves to it from a transit perspective, you would also need to build large garages?? Expect more of these to be built - perhaps many more - to correspond to any additional large-scale office growth that isn't easily walkable from single train trip destination stations with origination point broadly throughout the 9 mil+ pop Chicago metro area.........I suppose as it turns out, not everyone is biking to work these days from Wicker Park to Fulton Market........

I really don't share your criticisms of the West Loop for reasons I stated in another thread.

Also, the Loop itself has countless stand alone garages.

[brian_b]

Originally Posted by marothisu

Loop Connector would make it easier for those in River North and Streeterville (and North Loop) to get to at least close-ish without having to transfer (but unfortunately not to the core of West Loop prime). I believe it would link up with the Ashland stop, OTC, Union Station, etc.

The Pink Line gets you from Pilsen to the new Morgan station in less than 10 minutes. And it actually exists.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by brian_b

The Pink Line gets you from Pilsen to the new Morgan station in less than 10 minutes. And it actually exists.

Of course it does, and give me a call when Pilsen actually successfully starts creating big developments like River North. Even if it's attractive in regards to that, people will continue to pour into river north, streeterville, etc which is why there's so many residential high rises either U/C or recently completed in the overall area. That's not happening in Pilsen. The last developer who tried to put 500 new units in a vacant lot there got shot down eventually.

So the point is that yes, it exists, but you aren't going to see a mass amount of people from the new West Loop offices start moving there who would rather live downtown especially, mainly because the residents of Pilsen are going to do everything they can to prevent it.

[LouisVanDerWright]

The TOD where the old drive through title loan place was at Western and Milwaukee is potholed and marked for cassions. I'm guessing a permit is imminent here if it hasn't already been issued. It's amazing how the city is transforming before our eyes in so many ways. Hopefully I'm not setting myself up for another "Chicago was just fine when it was all drive through title loan joints and vacant lots before you came along with your 'real estate opportunity'" retort. Lol.

Originally Posted by denizen467

I never realized - and Crain's and the mayor haven't really emphasized - that a very large amount of this west loop explosion is a multiplier effect of the McDonald's move.


http://www.chicagobusiness.com/realestat...chicagos-tallest-towers-at-union-station

I mentioned this effect when Walgreens was looking at the Post Office. Many of the buildings surrounding their Deerfield campus are filled with vendors catering to their multinational distribution chain. If Walgreens relocates downtown, Deerfield becomes a ghost town overnight because those other offices are only there to sell to Walgreens. Same goes when you have thousands of restaurants in 100 countries. Every cup manufacturer, beef processor, or salt packet supplier in the world that sells to McDonalds needs some kind of presence near them. When you are selling one customer tens of millions a year of product, spending $100k a year for a small office to keep an iron grip on that account is a drop in the bucket.

Originally Posted by k1052

SB and others will build only the parking required to satisfy the decision makers. That certainly doesn't include a stall in the basement for every worker bee in each office. If they want to add millions of office square feet obviously some parking will need to be built but not anything near the scale you're claiming will start going up.

About half our office drives but has to park in one of the nearly perpetually empty Fifield built apartment garages a few blocks away. This is no bigger an imposition than the folks using Metra with equal or greater walks.

Sam is apparently still in lala land about the future of the West Loop. The parking garage is going up for far more than McDonalds. There has been a crippling parking shortage in the area ever since Google moved in. That's what happens when you have vacant lots evaporating at an explosive rate for a variety of uses. It isn't some phenomenon isolated to offices built "too far from transit", especially when there are already multiple examples of office nodes in the immediate area that are more geographically isolated from transit than the location in question.

As was stated above, the Loop is king of stand alone garages. Why? Because office uses generate plenty of trips from non commuters who can't rely on transit due to irregular schedules. If I'm going to a title office downtown for a closing, I drive. The closer likely takes the train because she is there every single day and can plan a regular commute without worrying about delaying a million dollar transaction because she doesn't time her one time transit trip correctly.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by marothisu

Of course it does, and give me a call when Pilsen actually successfully starts creating big developments like River North. Even if it's attractive in regards to that, people will continue to pour into river north, streeterville, etc which is why there's so many residential high rises either U/C or recently completed in the overall area. That's not happening in Pilsen. The last developer who tried to put 500 new units in a vacant lot there got shot down eventually.

^ While I agree with you, there is no stopping gentrification in Pilsen, it's just happening the old fashioned way--by smaller time people upgrading properties like this one:

Originally Posted by marothisu

3) Building at 18th and Halsted in Pilsen (1800 S Ashland) is going to add 14 units to the existing 2 floors above the Payless Shoes.

It's going on and continuing to go on, and it's working. The demand for apartments is there, even if demand is getting saturated downtown. You're still getting a damn good bargain down there. I'm renovating a 3 flat near the Damen stop of the Pink line, which is generally still considered to be beyond the envelope of gentrification, and back in August my agent said she had some people badly looking for a 3 bedroom in the area and were willing to pay $1650.

Unfortunately my units were still a ways from ready at that time, but I was stunned as I did not think these units would fetch more than $1500.

Anecdotal, but it's real.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

^ While I agree with you, there is no stopping gentrification in Pilsen, it's just happening the old fashioned way--by smaller time people upgrading properties like this one:



It's going on and continuing to go on, and it's working. The demand for apartments is there, even if demand is getting saturated downtown. You're still getting a damn good bargain down there. I'm renovating a 3 flat near the Damen stop of the Pink line, which is generally still considered to be beyond the envelope of gentrification, and back in August my agent said she had some people badly looking for a 3 bedroom in the area and were willing to pay $1650.

Unfortunately my units were still a ways from ready at that time, but I was stunned as I did not think these units would fetch more than $1500.

Anecdotal, but it's real.

Sure, the gentrification of Pilsen has been going on for awhile but it's a lot slower than other parts of town. Point is, you will get some office workers in the West Loop who will live there. I think that part is obvious (there are people living there working in the Loop - a few of my former coworkers who could have their pick to live anywhere in the city lived in Pilsen), but it's not going to be a mass amount because while there could be demand, the supply is not there for THAT many *nor* is the community allowing it at that fast of a pace. As a result, other areas of town will get those residents as long as Pilsen does its best job to not allow market rate developments off 50, 100, or more units. Also, even when it's more convenient and even if it did have more units for more large scale "migration" to it, you would still see the people who can choose where to live living elsewhere. There are people who will put up with an extra 20 minute commute if they can live wherever and like one neighborhood a lot more than another.


In other news:
1) There's a zoning item on the agenda for Friday's zoning meeting for a 4 story, 33 unit building with ground floor retail/office and 25 parking spaces for the vacant/parking lot Ashland and Cortez just south of the Division Blue Line stop. Up until last year it was the Ace Hardware:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9003448,...of1XnhaTc4Bp6Wf-X-5rg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

2) New bus terminal for 95th street & Dan Ryan stop got its permit yesterday to start. Here's the text:
"NEW CTA BUS TERMINAL AT 95TH AND THE DAN RYAN EXPRESSWAY - SOUTH TERMINAL FOUNDATIONS -Work associated with this permit package consists of construction of deep foundation elements required to support subsequent construction of the new CTA 95th Street Terminal Improvement Project. Work includes construction of pier foundations for the new South Bus Bridge, new South Terminal, and new south extension of the existing 95th Street Bridge. Foundation elements include construction of new rock socketed and belled to hard pan drilled shaft foundations, cast-in-place concrete caisson caps and associated grade beams."

[ithakas]

I think the new wave of West Loop office workers will be prime candidates for the TOD projects going up along the blue line. It's just a quick jaunt to these office sites from the Grand blue line. The pedestrian experience going south from Grand down Green Street could be improved though...

We might also see the Ashland corridor from Madison to Grand grow a bit denser with residential.

[Rizzo]

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown

More, I think, because it was attached to the supports for the upper level, which all went away when the S-curve was straightened. There was no longer anything to hold the limestone up.

The 1983 Central Area Plan (mostly Skidmore work) suggested a row of townhouses to hide the ramps, and there was some talk in the Liz Hollander era about an RFP for the scheme, but nothing further came of it.

Wow that's pretty cool. Plus they could have organized all the boat tour kiosks, boat and bike rentals and concessions in the ground level of those buildings.