Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[ConventionalMan]

I have searched the Canada Line threads and cannot sift through the hundreds of pages to find the answer... hopefully someone can point me in the right direction, but for now I'll put it here...

With the recent opening of the new Hamilton Transit Centre I've switched work locations and am driving out of there now. For this week, my work was on the 410 through Richmond and No 3 Road. I hadn't been through there in a long time but driving back and forth 6 times a day for the last few days I noticed the odd positioning of some of the Canada Line stations, pretty much butting up against the road, or in some cases, the road has been curved slightly around the stations (Landsdowne and Aberdeen in particular).

My question is:
Why are these stations located like this? Is it a matter of property owners not giving up any space? (Landsdowne just has a massive parking lot there, would it have killed to move the station eastward a few yards?) And is there a specific reason why they didn't go down the centre of 3 Rd like many other places? (I know esthetics were part of it but it does look pretty strange in places now, to me anyway)

[SFUVancouver]

Originally Posted by ConventionalMan

I have searched the Canada Line threads and cannot sift through the hundreds of pages to find the answer... hopefully someone can point me in the right direction, but for now I'll put it here...

With the recent opening of the new Hamilton Transit Centre I've switched work locations and am driving out of there now. For this week, my work was on the 410 through Richmond and No 3 Road. I hadn't been through there in a long time but driving back and forth 6 times a day for the last few days I noticed the odd positioning of some of the Canada Line stations, pretty much butting up against the road, or in some cases, the road has been curved slightly around the stations (Landsdowne and Aberdeen in particular).

My question is:
Why are these stations located like this? Is it a matter of property owners not giving up any space? (Landsdowne just has a massive parking lot there, would it have killed to move the station eastward a few yards?) And is there a specific reason why they didn't go down the centre of 3 Rd like many other places? (I know esthetics were part of it but it does look pretty strange in places now, to me anyway)

The positioning of the line on the east side of No. 3 road, as opposed to running down the median, was an accommodation to the City of Richmond, which didn't want to have the line "looming" over No. 3 Road as it does Lougheed Highway in Burnaby or, arguably, Terminal in Vancouver.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by ConventionalMan

My question is:
Why are these stations located like this? Is it a matter of property owners not giving up any space? (Landsdowne just has a massive parking lot there, would it have killed to move the station eastward a few yards?) And is there a specific reason why they didn't go down the centre of 3 Rd like many other places? (I know esthetics were part of it but it does look pretty strange in places now, to me anyway)

... and by "looming" over the road, that refers to the needs for a double height guideway (if located in the middle of the road) to accommodate a mezzanine level at stations to access the sidewalks on one or both sides of the street (think Brentwood Station or Metrotown Station). (i.e. you don't want to disgorge passengers to a median in the middle of the street)

The "side-of-road" stations are much more "human" in scale.
Think Holdom Station and Burquitlam Station (or even Main Street Station) in addition to the Canada Line No. 3 Rd. stations.

[ConventionalMan]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

The positioning of the line on the east side of No. 3 road, as opposed to running down the median, was an accommodation to the City of Richmond, which didn't want to have the line "looming" over No. 3 Road as it does Lougheed Highway in Burnaby or, arguably, Terminal in Vancouver.

Originally Posted by officedweller

... and by "looming" over the road, that refers to the needs for a double height guideway (if located in the middle of the road) to accommodate a mezzanine level at stations to access the sidewalks on one or both sides of the street (think Brentwood Station or Metrotown Station). (i.e. you don't want to disgorge passengers to a median in the middle of the street)

The "side-of-road" stations are much more "human" in scale.
Think Holdom Station and Burquitlam Station (or even Main Street Station) in addition to the Canada Line No. 3 Rd. stations.

I can see both those points for sure, and it's not so much having it on the side of the roadway, but where the stations actually sit. The positioning seems really odd to me. Like I said, having the road curve around when there appears to be ample space to the east. Anyway, it's not critical, just curious! Thanks.

[deasine]

Originally Posted by ConventionalMan

I can see both those points for sure, and it's not so much having it on the side of the roadway, but where the stations actually sit. The positioning seems really odd to me. Like I said, having the road curve around when there appears to be ample space to the east. Anyway, it's not critical, just curious! Thanks.

Despite there being space in the East, remember it's private property and the more that is expropriated, the higher the cost.

[ConventionalMan]

Originally Posted by deasine

Despite there being space in the East, remember it's private property and the more that is expropriated, the higher the cost.

For sure, I guess it just shows how much cost was actually cut out the whole thing.

[ConventionalMan]

Originally Posted by Bdawe

I haven't been following Hamilton, but come to think about it, why is it a good idea to locate a new bus barn in an area that is only accessible by congested bridges?

It's a HUGE chunk of property for (probably) a better price than elsewhere. And yes, even late morning/early afternoon it is an adventure getting in and out of there, nevermind rush hour. Already there are many trippers missing their first trips, due to being tied up in the logjam. Some adjustment to the schedules, I foresee.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by ConventionalMan

Like I said, having the road curve around when there appears to be ample space to the east. Anyway, it's not critical, just curious! Thanks.

Like you and others mentioned, that's probably due to mimimizing the cost of expropriating land,

Plus...
- a straightline guideway is cheaper to build (hence outside platforms rather than centre platforms), and for operational purposes has less wear and tear and allows higher speeds than one with curves,
- so shifting a station to the east would/could also entail shifting the entire guideway alignment to the east (not just at stations) or adding construction and operational costs / inefficiencies by adding curves to shift the guideway east at each station.

[jollyburger]

The stupidest part is the crosswalks where the crosswalk signal buttons are placed 10 feet from the walking path.

And the non-center guideway gives you covered walkways/bike lanes.

Big PDF detailing the design of the guideway/No 3 Road here:

http://www.richmond.ca/__shared/assets/C...prt_-_IBI_Group_Feb__13-07_lo_r17777.pdf

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by ConventionalMan

I have searched the Canada Line threads and cannot sift through the hundreds of pages to find the answer... hopefully someone can point me in the right direction, but for now I'll put it here...

With the recent opening of the new Hamilton Transit Centre I've switched work locations and am driving out of there now. For this week, my work was on the 410 through Richmond and No 3 Road. I hadn't been through there in a long time but driving back and forth 6 times a day for the last few days I noticed the odd positioning of some of the Canada Line stations, pretty much butting up against the road, or in some cases, the road has been curved slightly around the stations (Landsdowne and Aberdeen in particular).

My question is:
Why are these stations located like this? Is it a matter of property owners not giving up any space? (Landsdowne just has a massive parking lot there, would it have killed to move the station eastward a few yards?) And is there a specific reason why they didn't go down the centre of 3 Rd like many other places? (I know esthetics were part of it but it does look pretty strange in places now, to me anyway)

I had heard that they wouldn't put the pillars for the new RAV line in the median because the median had been rebuilt (at great cost) for the 98 B-Line.
An unintended consequence of the RAV line was that parts of the B-Line median had to be used for relocating underground utilities away from the east side of the road (making room for the RAV construction), so the B-Line buses had to use the regular roads anyhow during this work.

[jbrizzy]

Saw a CNG (I think) bus on the 100 the other day, first time I've seen that. The 100 100 runs only Nova buses with a few old 90's buses from time to time. Not sure if that appearance has to do with it's move to HTC and if we'll be seeing more of them on that route.

[ConventionalMan]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

The stupidest part is the crosswalks where the crosswalk signal buttons are placed 10 feet from the walking path.

And the non-center guideway gives you covered walkways/bike lanes.

Big PDF detailing the design of the guideway/No 3 Road here:

http://www.richmond.ca/__shared/assets/C...prt_-_IBI_Group_Feb__13-07_lo_r17777.pdf

Cool document, thanks!

[ConventionalMan]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

I had heard that they wouldn't put the pillars for the new RAV line in the median because the median had been rebuilt (at great cost) for the 98 B-Line.
An unintended consequence of the RAV line was that parts of the B-Line median had to be used for relocating underground utilities away from the east side of the road (making room for the RAV construction), so the B-Line buses had to use the regular roads anyhow during this work.

Wow. The planning. And re-planning lol.

[ConventionalMan]

Originally Posted by jbrizzy

Saw a CNG (I think) bus on the 100 the other day, first time I've seen that. The 100 100 runs only Nova buses with a few old 90's buses from time to time. Not sure if that appearance has to do with it's move to HTC and if we'll be seeing more of them on that route.

As it stands, any bus at HTC can be used on any route, though generally it seems they are sticking with particular one in certain areas. This week, I had the same type on each of my 410's (Nova) and the bus behind was always a CNG (tripper I think). Oddly, the one in front was random: a Nova on Tues, CNG Wed-Thur, and old low-floor Fri.

The yard even has all the buses grouped by type. It's cool to come in at night and see them all lined up in matching sets!

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by Sheba

I got to ride a Mark 3 again today. They don't look that different than a Mark 2.5 so yeah people who aren't transit nerds aren't likely to notice much of a difference. The door chimes and announcements were louder, the doors and power (can't say engine) were slightly quieter and sounded a bit different - I can't really say how but if you listen you'll hear it.

I rode one through the tunnel to Sapperton, and to me, it definitely sounded quieter inside the car than on the other trains.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

The stupidest part is the crosswalks where the crosswalk signal buttons are placed 10 feet from the walking path.

And the non-center guideway gives you covered walkways/bike lanes.

Big PDF detailing the design of the guideway/No 3 Road here:

http://www.richmond.ca/__shared/assets/C...prt_-_IBI_Group_Feb__13-07_lo_r17777.pdf

anyone else think that Aberdeen Station turned out nothing like the plan? the plan looks way way nicer.

[Express691]

Originally Posted by jbrizzy

Saw a CNG (I think) bus on the 100 the other day, first time I've seen that. The 100 100 runs only Nova buses with a few old 90's buses from time to time. Not sure if that appearance has to do with it's move to HTC and if we'll be seeing more of them on that route.

Its the move to HTC. Taken from CPTDB wiki: 75 Hybrid buses, 53 older ones, and 13 CNG buses will operate out of HTC.

[ConventionalMan]

Originally Posted by Express691

Its the move to HTC. Taken from CPTDB wiki: 75 Hybrid buses, 53 older ones, and 13 CNG buses will operate out of HTC.

For now.

Until the 50 new CNG buses arrive in Octoberish Then I'm sure many more will be seen out there.

[AverageJoe]

Saw this in the TRAMS Facebook group today. This was seen at Lougheed Station. A sign of things to come?

[Jebby]

Just a test. There's isn't a way to get from Lougheed to King George without transferring or somehow switching tracks at Columbia.