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  #6041  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2016, 2:24 AM
mukmuk64 mukmuk64 is offline
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People talk pretty casually about mixing commercial and some residential into light industrial like it's no big deal, but the inclusion of other uses into industrial zoning undermines the ability for people to use the land for industrial uses.

Industrial zoning exists for a reason. There are businesses which require the ability to be noisy or smelly or operate at hours that would be disruptive to other people. This is why we set aside land specifically for these sort of activities. If residential were mixed in, the amount of complaints would make it difficult for these industrial businesses to operate.

There is some potential to include commercial and you can sprinkle residential around the edges, but you have to be really careful. This is essentially what the city is doing. They're intensifying the area by allowing developers to build additional commercial space if they retain the same amount of industrial square footage, and the city is putting in condos all along Main Street.
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  #6042  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2016, 3:00 AM
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The hodge podge of different businesses and services, along with various forms of housing, makes this particular part of Mt. Pleasant quite interesting. It's not really a heavy or dirty industrial area anyways, so I say continue down this path. Adding a certain percentage of residential would facilitate even more creative use of some of these old industrial buildings.
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  #6043  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2016, 8:43 AM
officedweller officedweller is offline
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Here's an article from April:

Quote:
Gentrification of Vancouver’s Mount Pleasant generating a fight
Frances Bula
VANCOUVER — Special to The Globe and Mail
Published Friday, Apr. 01, 2016 9:51PM EDT
Last updated Friday, Apr. 01, 2016 11:32PM EDT

...
The guys at Hudson Plating have been doing this at the shop in Mount Pleasant’s light-industrial area for a very long time.

But they will be gone this year, one of the last to go of the metal-working shops, welding operations and steel producers that once populated this slope above Olympic Village, a change that happened slowly over the past 20 years, then suddenly sped up in the past three years, as high-tech operations rushed to get in.

The departure of Hudson Plating – and the clamour of all kinds of new businesses to locate to these industrial areas – underscores the mounting dilemma for Vancouver planners, a dilemma that is popping up in other spots in the region and other post-industrial cities: How to define an industrial use in the 21st century.
...
The company is being forced to move because the owners of the property the shop sits on decided to sell recently. Prices in the area have risen enough that the owners will still make a profit, even after doing the expensive, government-mandated clean-up of the chemical-soaked land.

“We have a place in Tilbury now,” said Mr. Scott, whose company brings in about $5-million a year and employs 40 people, 20 of them at the Vancouver operation.

“It was inevitable. The city has promoted the change.”

In the past few decades, many cities in the region and elsewhere blithely converted large swathes of industrial land so they could be filled with a product for which there seemed to be no end of demand: condo towers and new housing developments. That helped them avoid difficult decisions about allowing density in existing neighbourhoods.

But in the land-squeezed Lower Mainland, there’s been a resistance to those giveaways by groups concerned about preserving land for factories, warehouses, repair shops and other businesses key to the regional economy.

Mount Pleasant, an eclectic mix of early 20th-century houses, a couple of historic apartment buildings, warehouses, old factories and operations like Hudson, has been rigorously protected for industrial use as a result, and is a case in point: Almost all of it is zoned as industrial, both in city plans and in Metro Vancouver’s 2011 regional growth strategy, which introduced a strong emphasis on preserving industrial land in the Lower Mainland.

But the area – minutes from downtown and suddenly a hipster favourite for work and play – is facing huge pressure as new kinds of businesses push to get in, some of them claiming they are the contemporary version of industrial.

Those concerned about preserving space in cities for what are clearly industrial jobs – jobs that use big pieces of equipment or produce unpleasant odours and noises or have trucks pulling up or need a lot of space for production – are worried about that kind of zoning move, one that could suggest people sitting at computers are just like factory workers.

Industrial lease rates are almost always cheaper than office space.
...
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/brit...sant-generating-a-fight/article29504390/
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  #6044  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2016, 3:23 PM
mukmuk64 mukmuk64 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by officedweller View Post
Quote:
....
Vancouver councillor Andrea Reimer, whose mayor, Gregor Robertson, has made encouraging high-tech a key part of his agenda, says sometimes people working at computers are doing manufacturing-type work. If they create a mass product – a digital video game, a social-media tool – that they put out on the market for people to buy, that is industrial.

That is different, she maintains, from people who produce law briefs or tax returns or marketing reports for specific customers. Those are services, and not industrial. That is how city zoning can differentiate, she says.
...
As someone working in software in the heart of Vancouver's commercial downtown core in a building full of lawyers and other types of white collar workers I can tell you that this concept that is trying to be sold here is total horse —.

Reimer here is misunderstanding or being disingenuous about the role of zoning. The point is to separate types of activities based on their level of nuisance. Software development is a low nuisance activity. You could put it anywhere. You could allow a software development studio in the heart of residential Kitsilano and nearby residents would probably not notice. In contrast types of industrial use, with supply vans coming and going and industrial fans working all day (and night!) is high nuisance activity that can't go in the heart of residential Kitsilano without aggravating a ton of people. You could put any low nuisance activity in a higher nuisance zone, but you're then not using land effectively and you're potentially undermining the high nuisance activities.

This leads to the other danger of trying to undermine industrial zoning by introducing other uses. Why would someone cheaply rent space to an artist studio or food truck startup commisary kitchen when one could fetch higher rents and a more stable renter by renting to an established tech company? Why rent to a small manufacturer when one could make so much more by selling the land and redeveloping it into a condo building?

I think it's reasonably likely that the unintended consequence introducing other uses into industrial zoning without extreme care is that broad swaths of types of businesses become unviable.

Maybe it no longer makes sense for businesses like Hudson Plating to exist in this exact area, but I think there are lots of other industrial type businesses that the city is best off keeping room set aside for. The economy of Vancouver is if anything already too weak and one dimensional as it is. We need to keep the options open to more types of potential businesses in the city, not narrow them further.
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  #6045  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2016, 3:55 PM
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Yeah, that's ridiculous. Video game or software development isn't an industrial land use.

I create excel spreadsheets, is that industrial?
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  #6046  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2016, 6:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jebby View Post
Yeah, that's ridiculous. Video game or software development isn't an industrial land use.

I create excel spreadsheets, is that industrial?
Software development isn't industrial? The entire Silicon Valley would like to have a word with you.
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  #6047  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2016, 7:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut View Post
Software development isn't industrial? The entire Silicon Valley would like to have a word with you.
You need to re-read my post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jebby View Post
Yeah, that's ridiculous. Video game or software development isn't an industrial land use.
It's commercial/office land use, not industrial.
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  #6048  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2016, 7:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut View Post
Software development isn't industrial? The entire Silicon Valley would like to have a word with you.
He means for land use purposes, not economic purposes.
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  #6049  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2016, 8:16 PM
quobobo quobobo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mukmuk64 View Post
If residential were mixed in, the amount of complaints would make it difficult for these industrial businesses to operate.
FWIW it works in Japan, where residential is allowed in most industrial areas (but not vice versa).
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  #6050  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2016, 7:55 PM
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From one week ago.

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  #6051  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2016, 8:20 PM
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With Broadway subway being built, this triangle of land will be the best transit area in all Metro Vancouver, server by all Skytrain lines. I would like to see a mix of high-tech / office jobs and residential filling this whole area with a nice mix of restaurants added in. So much potential, but time will show if Vancouver manages to make it a success. Olympic Village is only a beginning for this whole area to re-develope.
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  #6052  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2016, 9:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klazu View Post
With Broadway subway being built, this triangle of land will be the best transit area in all Metro Vancouver, server by all Skytrain lines. I would like to see a mix of high-tech / office jobs and residential filling this whole area with a nice mix of restaurants added in. So much potential, but time will show if Vancouver manages to make it a success. Olympic Village is only a beginning for this whole area to re-develope.
Unfortunately, every block zoned for development is either finished or under construction. The rest is planned as a soccer field and a bunch of lawns .
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  #6053  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2016, 11:07 PM
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Migrant what are you talking about? Look closer at the master plan for the area. There is quite a lot left to be developed just in the Olympic village, let alone the area in general...
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  #6054  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2016, 12:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klazu View Post
With Broadway subway being built, this triangle of land will be the best transit area in all Metro Vancouver, server by all Skytrain lines. I would like to see a mix of high-tech / office jobs and residential filling this whole area with a nice mix of restaurants added in. So much potential, but time will show if Vancouver manages to make it a success. Olympic Village is only a beginning for this whole area to re-develope.
What's funny is the Main St. station and potential Kingsway/Broadway station of a UBC extension are all closer to OV than the station named Olympic Village.
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  #6055  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2016, 7:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vancouver_Highrise View Post
Migrant what are you talking about? Look closer at the master plan for the area. There is quite a lot left to be developed just in the Olympic village, let alone the area in general...
Here's the plan I'm looking at, in case you've got a different one:



There's two vacant lots left. The one between Ontario and Quebec is currently under construction as a series of condos and yet another large grass field. The other one between Hinge Park and Cambie Bridge is, like I said, slated for a large sports field plus some townhouses. Not much room left for restaurants, offices or light industry in Olympic Village - if you meant SE False Creek in general, that remains to be seen.
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  #6056  
Old Posted Sep 2, 2016, 10:28 PM
officedweller officedweller is offline
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Concord's project near Hinge Park now called "Avenue One"

https://www.avenueone.ca/


https://twitter.com/GBLArchitects
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  #6057  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2016, 4:14 PM
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Voda (I think) in Concert's Creek project. My photos from Sept 3:


IMG_3743 by 604 City, on Flickr


IMG_3744 by 604 City, on Flickr
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  #6058  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2016, 5:39 PM
nds88 nds88 is offline
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Originally Posted by officedweller View Post
Concord's project near Hinge Park now called "Avenue One"
I think they should have rotated the building so the outer curved part is facing North West, giving the majority or residences views of BC Place, Yaletown and the future park. It will also be quieter since it would be away from 2nd ave. With the current direct of SW, it will be super hot in the summer (hope they have AC since there's no balconies) and they are looking directly into the homeless building. Are there any advantages with the current building direction? I think it just looks nicer for drivers going east of 2nd ave to view the front of the building.
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  #6059  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2016, 6:55 PM
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Originally Posted by WarrenC12 View Post
What's funny is the Main St. station and potential Kingsway/Broadway station of a UBC extension are all closer to OV than the station named Olympic Village.
It's just like how Stadium Chinatown isn't really in Chinatown, most like the outer edge.
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  #6060  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2016, 7:53 PM
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Here's a quick overview shot from the Skytrain yesterday.



Sept.3 '16, my pic
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