DENVER | Transportation Thread

[PLANSIT]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

What a wondrous fantasy. Don't see how that's going to happen as the DIA renovation will sterilize the Great Hall meaning you'll have to go through TSA screening first to get to it.

That's not true, based on the current plan.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by PLANSIT

That's not true, based on the current plan.

So they changed it from the original idea? That would be nice for those meeting passengers at the terminal.

EDIT: Just looked at the concept. 75% of the Great Hall would become a sterilized area.

[TakeFive]

Denver/DIA isn't breaking any new ground here, at least not globally. The recent trend, especially in Asia is for airports to be lavish and resort like. The Great Hall provides the ready made space to make it more of its own destination. I can certainly see The Wongs and The Dirt's wanting to get away from their stuffy neighborhood for a nice shopping and dinner break from the kids. I assume if you want to include the kids then you'll be delightfully pleased by Gaylord.

Denver continues to march forward into the future. It's part of its DNA.

[CharlesCO]

Even if they sterilize the Great Hall, I don't see how people are going to stay there and peruse the retail and restaurants unless if DIA turns into a place like Heathrow Terminal 4 where you don't find out your gate until boarding time.

In my view, most people prefer to rush to find their gate first before going to concessions. And aside from some of the food improvements to Concourse C, the concourses are really starting to feel dated and stale. To start, the Concourse B atrium desperately needs something better than a Caribou and the McDonalds and Burger King that visually look the same as they did in 1995.

DIA was the best in the nation then, and while it's still a very manageable airport, other airports have since vastly improved their passenger experience (SFO, LAX TBIT, SEA, IAD A/B).

[mr1138]

Just my 2 cents, but having just been to the airport, I think this all makes a lot of sense. There is a significant flow of people now streaming in from the south because of the hotel/transit center. It really seems to have changed the way people flow through the terminal - no longer evenly from the east and west, but rather a clear flow from south to north. They actually had signs up saying something to the effect of "smaller wait times at North TSA screening checkpoint" because so many people walk straight into the southern checkpoint after entering the terminal. Not to mention the way that the gradual decrease in ticket counters actually being used over the last 20 years has changed how the terminal operates. The southern 3rd of the main hall is about the same size as the Union Station great hall, and would feel a lot more spacious if the TSA screening was completely removed. This, plus the new outdoor plaza, should be more than enough space for people waiting to pick up a friend. The remaining ticket counter areas would also likely remain open to the public.

And this is all before the question of modern security is even raised. Long, slow-moving queues of people in an extremely exposed location aren't necessarily the best idea. I was just in Amsterdam where they use a much more efficient model that I've heard is being looked at for DIA.

Image from the Schipol Airport website.


Also remember that in the new configuration, you won't be forced straight to the concourse after clearing security, so people can move freely between the "clean" zone of the terminal and the concourses without the uncertainty of security wait times. Plus, international arrivals would exit into the "clean" zone and not have to do security again if they had a connecting flight. Even if the retail experience doesn't get much better, this makes sense from an operational standpoint alone, if you ask me.

[EngiNerd]

The biggest issue I would have with it (and I have a similar issue with other airports) is that basically anyone outside of security has no access to restaurants or any other airport amenities other than a snack cart and a bathroom. I have been stuck at baggage claim for a while in some of these airports, and it —.

[The Dirt]

I had the same concern back in the day until I walked around the Westin. I think it's a pretty decent airport amenity area for pre-screend people. You've got bar, a convenience a couple of restaurants, and great people-watching areas.

[mr1138]

The space in the southern 3rd of the terminal also appears to have underutilized space that could be used for public restaurants if that became a problem. the interactive map on this page gives an idea for the size and layout. It looks like a large amount of retail square footage is being used as a TSA office. The retail options also includes a large luggage store that may not need to be in this part of the terminal. And I'm not sure what's going on in the blank area just north of the southwest restrooms. The point is that the square footage is there, and currently only includes a single restaurant. I would imagine that a total overhaul of the terminal, including the removal of the TSA screening point from this location, will also result in more retail space becoming available in the indoor public part of the airport.

[COtoOC]

Originally Posted by CharlesCO

Even if they sterilize the Great Hall, I don't see how people are going to stay there and peruse the retail and restaurants unless if DIA turns into a place like Heathrow Terminal 4 where you don't find out your gate until boarding time.

In my view, most people prefer to rush to find their gate first before going to concessions. And aside from some of the food improvements to Concourse C, the concourses are really starting to feel dated and stale. To start, the Concourse B atrium desperately needs something better than a Caribou and the McDonalds and Burger King that visually look the same as they did in 1995.

DIA was the best in the nation then, and while it's still a very manageable airport, other airports have since vastly improved their passenger experience (SFO, LAX TBIT, SEA, IAD A/B).

Passenger experience at LAX is lacking, IMO. Maybe not in the Bradley terminal, but the other, older terminals, it's not an enjoyable experience. I was in Terminal 1 this weekend (in and out) and they're still in the middle of construction. Granted, I haven't been in every other terminal recently. But DIA always seems much nicer than wherever I fly.

[RyanD]

Originally Posted by COtoOC

Passenger experience at LAX is lacking, IMO. Maybe not in the Bradley terminal, but the other, older terminals, it's not an enjoyable experience. I was in Terminal 1 this weekend (in and out) and they're still in the middle of construction. Granted, I haven't been in every other terminal recently. But DIA always seems much nicer than wherever I fly.

I do LA about twice a year and DEN > LAX. The other terminals are still pretty strange and drab. I do not like LAX.

[CharlesCO]

Originally Posted by COtoOC

Passenger experience at LAX is lacking, IMO. Maybe not in the Bradley terminal, but the other, older terminals, it's not an enjoyable experience. I was in Terminal 1 this weekend (in and out) and they're still in the middle of construction. Granted, I haven't been in every other terminal recently. But DIA always seems much nicer than wherever I fly.

Yes, that was why I made that distinction. The other eight terminals are all still war zones with no seating, but the new Tom Bradley (which was done by our beloved Fentress) is really world class. I walked through there as I was waiting for my Global Entry appointment, and they got everything right in terms of shopping and gate experience. The central part of the concourse is just beautiful — why can't DIA have something like that?

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by CharlesCO

Yes, that was why I made that distinction. The other eight terminals are all still war zones with no seating, but the new Tom Bradley (which was done by our beloved Fentress) is really world class. I walked through there as I was waiting for my Global Entry appointment, and they got everything right in terms of shopping and gate experience. The central part of the concourse is just beautiful — why can't DIA have something like that?

Image courtesy of Johnny Jet

Image courtesy of Fentress via inhabitat

Fentress did a real nice job with LAX; looks very nice and is LEED Gold. Fentress used DIA as a springboard to great success which you can easily see on their website. They've worked on a number of airports, convention centers and other projects.

As the first major improvement in 25 years, Fentress’ design recharges the outdated LAX with a convenient and comfortable passenger experience.

The Los Angeles ambiance is captured with Pacific Ocean-inspired roof forms that recall rhythmic waves breaking on the shore. The wave-like ceiling reduces solar glare and heat from the ocean on the west and bathes the terminal in natural light from the northeast. Expansive glass curtain walls offer dramatic views of the airfield and the nearby Santa Monica Mountains.

It's not like DIA has been dormant given they just spent ~$700 million on expansion and improvements. Not sure what the final price tag on the project of moving security and redoing the Great Hall will be??

I think DIA's next task is to determine how the airport will expand its capacity since the underground trains can't be expanded (realistically) beyond what was just accomplished along with the Westin Hotel.

[CharlesCO]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

I think DIA's next task is to determine how the airport will expand its capacity since the underground trains can't be expanded (realistically) beyond what was just accomplished along with the Westin Hotel.

Maybe I just haven't read up enough on this, but I haven't understood why the trains can't be expanded. Wasn't the airport designed with potential Concourses D and E in mind? Or if the train system is really that antiquated, couldn't they shut down one track and build a more serious type of rail over the concrete?

[The Dirt]

Yeah, I never got this either. I've heard something about not being able to accommodate all of the passenger traffic. However, I was just there a couple of weeks ago and the frequency of the trains was worse than usual. It was something like a 7 minute wait. If they could just get the trains running every 2-3 minutes, that seems like it will be enough for a while.

[RyanD]

I forgot to mention this. I rode the J-Line on Lightrail the other day!

Don't know what the J-Line is? Neither does anybody else unless you're actually riding the system! Go online and check? The J route, according to RTD, is East Boulder / Longmont.

The only way I found out what the J-Line actually was is when a train passed the other direction. It's Nine Mile -> Union Station for Broncos games so you don't have to transfer from Nine Mile.

I love how RTD just makes things up, and doesn't document any of it anywhere.

[Cirrus]

I don't mind if they make things up for internal purposes. But labeling trains with it for the public to see and theoretically navigate according to, with no explanation anywhere, is ridiculous.

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

I don't mind if they make things up for internal purposes. But labeling trains with it for the public to see and theoretically navigate according to, with no explanation anywhere, is ridiculous.

It's actually sort of great. If you've never had that experience of trying to navigate a foreign city and having absolutely no clue what is going on, well come to Denver, we'll give you that experience here, no passport needed!

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by CharlesCO

Maybe I just haven't read up enough on this, but I haven't understood why the trains can't be expanded. Wasn't the airport designed with potential Concourses D and E in mind? Or if the train system is really that antiquated, couldn't they shut down one track and build a more serious type of rail over the concrete?

My understanding is that was the original concept. They also estimated the originally built capacity of roughly 50 million passengers a year to also last a long time like 40 years. Apparently the engineering challenges and logistics are pretty intense and very costly to add another tunnel.

I have a couple of links saved with for updated options being considered... some day. They're now considering a new terminal to the south or east I believe as better choices.

Originally Posted by RyanD

I forgot to mention this. I rode the J-Line on Lightrail the other day!

The only way I found out what the J-Line actually was is when a train passed the other direction. It's Nine Mile -> Union Station for Broncos games so you don't have to transfer from Nine Mile.

Not sure I understand going to Union Station. They used to stop at Auraria and you just walked underneath I-25 to the game. Union Station seems out of the way? I assume they still run Express buses that drop off at the stadium as well, at least for regular season games.

[PLANSIT]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Not sure I understand going to Union Station. They used to stop at Auraria and you just walked underneath I-25 to the game. Union Station seems out of the way? I assume they still run Express buses that drop off at the stadium as well, at least for regular season games.

There is no direct service to DUS (CPV spur) from Nine Mile. This special service gets you to the Broncos station (then to DUS) for gamedays. Regular option is to get off at Colfax/Auraria station and hoof it to Mile High.

[COtoOC]

Originally Posted by The Dirt

Yeah, I never got this either. I've heard something about not being able to accommodate all of the passenger traffic. However, I was just there a couple of weeks ago and the frequency of the trains was worse than usual. It was something like a 7 minute wait. If they could just get the trains running every 2-3 minutes, that seems like it will be enough for a while.

ATL has the same basic setup as DIA but with more concourses. Their train works with more concourses.