Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[rocketphish]

Lees Station: Crews continue installing duct banks, excavate for utilities and mobilize to work on the methane membrane.

??

[eemy]

I noticed also that vehicle testing is supposed to start soon between Belfast and Tremblay. Can't wait to see photos!

[bikegypsy]

Originally Posted by jeremy_haak

I noticed also that vehicle testing is supposed to start soon between Belfast and Tremblay. Can't wait to see photos!

Any idea when they will begin testing across the entire line? All the stations are scheduled to be completed by October 2017 and I imagine that the entire infrastructure will be completed shortly after that. So they would require +-6 months of testing?

[Buggys]

I would guess that RTG is secretly hoping to finish everything by Canada Day 2017, and win the hearts of the public.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

Lees Station: Crews continue installing duct banks, excavate for utilities and mobilize to work on the methane membrane.

??

To keep methane out of the tunnel or station, perhaps?

Maybe something like this.

http://www.visqueenbuilding.com/products/gas-membranes

[Vanier]

Originally Posted by acottawa

To keep methane out of the tunnel or station, perhaps?

Maybe something like this.

http://www.visqueenbuilding.com/products/gas-membranes

The land around the area is a brownfield. Wasn't there a coal gasification plant located there during the early part of the 20th century?

[PHrenetic]

Originally Posted by Vanier

The land around the area is a brownfield. Wasn't there a coal gasification plant located there during the early part of the 20th century?

Good Day all.... for this one you have to go all the way back to the construction of Bargain Haydon's cheaper-than-rail and faster-than-a-whatever bus transitway in the early 80s. Remember that back then an LRT or tramway was proposed, but shot down in favour of a bus transit system...purportedly cheaper and faster to build because they would use the surface RoW to put in bus-only roads. Then all of a sudden...!... we were building trenches and bridges to separate these cheap roads and get the buses through faster. So much for cheaper. then we(he) forgot to complete the system and we ended up with the downtown disaster (right from day one) and the western ORP 'temporary' rental !! And then, in the midst of building the trenches - we(he) ran into Lees Ave. station - right in the middle of an environmental HotSpot. They knew it's history, but seemed to ignore that implication - coal and coal-oil and who-knew-what in there. We still do NOT know clearly what IS in there. So the Lees station was repeatedly delayed, putting the whole trench there behind schedule, so much so that they finally decided to build the walls and floor with (for that time) EXTREME isolation membranes and drainage systems that sent the seepage back into the field ground there. They then paved the roadway over it and ran buses through without stopping until they could then finish the isolation systems and re-hide the problem, and finish the station. It 'worked' until about 10 years ago when the iso membranes failed (to what degree was never made clear) and they again had to have the buses run through the station without stopping while they opened up the membranes and weeping drains and repaired them. This was all known to RTG and the other bidders when the transitway conversion was put up, as an element to be dealt with in as far as the station CANNOT be moved or widened or re-routed (which is why it looks a little awkward in layout and structure in the new guideway), AND the infrastructure that simply MUST be opened up to install the guideway and OCS must reseal securely those membranes and weeping drains.
And if you think that is complicated, I think I am understating the problem, since I have put this together from memory, and have no references for it. Someone will have to search the Citizen and other sources to verify this recount. BTW - yeah, I've been around that long, and followed all the mis-representations of the BUS transitway (and how the artics were to only run in the T-Way, acting like 'trains', coming every 3-5 minutes, no overloading or chasing your specific bus route because you'd transfer onto and off of the T-Way like a train spine or metro (comparisons to TO and Mtl) yeah right sure) with great interest and dismay.
Sorry for the long tale, but this one pushed a button.
I've still got a few to come.
Good Luck, and Good Day, all.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Vanier

The land around the area is a brownfield. Wasn't there a coal gasification plant located there during the early part of the 20th century?

It was there until the mid 1960s and only torn down when they were completing the Queensway in preparation for Centennial year. I remember it well.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by PHrenetic

Good Day all.... for this one you have to go all the way back to the construction of Bargain Haydon's cheaper-than-rail and faster-than-a-whatever bus transitway in the early 80s. Remember that back then an LRT or tramway was proposed, but shot down in favour of a bus transit system...purportedly cheaper and faster to build because they would use the surface RoW to put in bus-only roads. Then all of a sudden...!... we were building trenches and bridges to separate these cheap roads and get the buses through faster. So much for cheaper. then we(he) forgot to complete the system and we ended up with the downtown disaster (right from day one) and the western ORP 'temporary' rental !! And then, in the midst of building the trenches - we(he) ran into Lees Ave. station - right in the middle of an environmental HotSpot. They knew it's history, but seemed to ignore that implication - coal and coal-oil and who-knew-what in there. We still do NOT know clearly what IS in there. So the Lees station was repeatedly delayed, putting the whole trench there behind schedule, so much so that they finally decided to build the walls and floor with (for that time) EXTREME isolation membranes and drainage systems that sent the seepage back into the field ground there. They then paved the roadway over it and ran buses through without stopping until they could then finish the isolation systems and re-hide the problem, and finish the station. It 'worked' until about 10 years ago when the iso membranes failed (to what degree was never made clear) and they again had to have the buses run through the station without stopping while they opened up the membranes and weeping drains and repaired them. This was all known to RTG and the other bidders when the transitway conversion was put up, as an element to be dealt with in as far as the station CANNOT be moved or widened or re-routed (which is why it looks a little awkward in layout and structure in the new guideway), AND the infrastructure that simply MUST be opened up to install the guideway and OCS must reseal securely those membranes and weeping drains.
And if you think that is complicated, I think I am understating the problem, since I have put this together from memory, and have no references for it. Someone will have to search the Citizen and other sources to verify this recount. BTW - yeah, I've been around that long, and followed all the mis-representations of the BUS transitway (and how the artics were to only run in the T-Way, acting like 'trains', coming every 3-5 minutes, no overloading or chasing your specific bus route because you'd transfer onto and off of the T-Way like a train spine or metro (comparisons to TO and Mtl) yeah right sure) with great interest and dismay.
Sorry for the long tale, but this one pushed a button.
I've still got a few to come.
Good Luck, and Good Day, all.

A lot of things were rushed in preparation for Centennial year. There was obviously little if any environmental clean up at the time, when the plant was torn down and the Queensway built through this area.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by PHrenetic

Good Day all.... for this one you have to go all the way back to the construction of Bargain Haydon's cheaper-than-rail and faster-than-a-whatever bus transitway in the early 80s. Remember that back then an LRT or tramway was proposed, but shot down in favour of a bus transit system...purportedly cheaper and faster to build because they would use the surface RoW to put in bus-only roads. Then all of a sudden...!... we were building trenches and bridges to separate these cheap roads and get the buses through faster. So much for cheaper. then we(he) forgot to complete the system and we ended up with the downtown disaster (right from day one) and the western ORP 'temporary' rental !! And then, in the midst of building the trenches - we(he) ran into Lees Ave. station - right in the middle of an environmental HotSpot. They knew it's history, but seemed to ignore that implication - coal and coal-oil and who-knew-what in there. We still do NOT know clearly what IS in there. So the Lees station was repeatedly delayed, putting the whole trench there behind schedule, so much so that they finally decided to build the walls and floor with (for that time) EXTREME isolation membranes and drainage systems that sent the seepage back into the field ground there. They then paved the roadway over it and ran buses through without stopping until they could then finish the isolation systems and re-hide the problem, and finish the station. It 'worked' until about 10 years ago when the iso membranes failed (to what degree was never made clear) and they again had to have the buses run through the station without stopping while they opened up the membranes and weeping drains and repaired them. This was all known to RTG and the other bidders when the transitway conversion was put up, as an element to be dealt with in as far as the station CANNOT be moved or widened or re-routed (which is why it looks a little awkward in layout and structure in the new guideway), AND the infrastructure that simply MUST be opened up to install the guideway and OCS must reseal securely those membranes and weeping drains.
And if you think that is complicated, I think I am understating the problem, since I have put this together from memory, and have no references for it. Someone will have to search the Citizen and other sources to verify this recount. BTW - yeah, I've been around that long, and followed all the mis-representations of the BUS transitway (and how the artics were to only run in the T-Way, acting like 'trains', coming every 3-5 minutes, no overloading or chasing your specific bus route because you'd transfer onto and off of the T-Way like a train spine or metro (comparisons to TO and Mtl) yeah right sure) with great interest and dismay.
Sorry for the long tale, but this one pushed a button.
I've still got a few to come.
Good Luck, and Good Day, all.

Ottawa's express network developed in the 1970s and originating from the highly successful and privately operated Beacon Hill Bullet was the basis of developing the Transitways. What you are suggesting would have been politically unsalable at the time.

[PHrenetic]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Ottawa's express network developed in the 1970s and originating from the highly successful and privately operated Beacon Hill Bullet was the basis of developing the Transitways. What you are suggesting would have been politically unsalable at the time.

Good Day.... I only came to Ottawa in 78, so I am not familiar with the Bullet.... But what you seem to be suggesting is what was I recall was popularly felt at the time, that the bus lobby outmanouvered and buried the rail proponents in what ended up being a ton of erroneous and mis-informing "facts" as to the true costs, both short and long term, of bus .vs. rail, in the context of less cost for buses (but not including in that less cost the cost of building all the trenches and bridges) against more cost for rail (by excessively overstating the cost of trenches and bridges), and similarly the comparative costs of fuel, operators, and maintenance. And then they built the trenches and bridges anyway, sending the construction costs into huge overrun, which were "railroaded" through regional council (an indirect and unelected body, and thus not to be held responsible). And it was those same cost overruns which were then used to justify not creating a viable RoW through downtown - at that time - but rather 'delay' it until it was necessary (!!).
Thanks.

[Dundas]

Originally Posted by Buggys

I would guess that RTG is secretly hoping to finish everything by Canada Day 2017, and win the hearts of the public.

I'm pretty sure all above ground construction needs to be done before Canada day 2017, I think they might give a sneak peak at some stations on that day, or month. Who knows.

[HighwayStar]

Originally Posted by Dundas

I'm pretty sure all above ground construction needs to be done before Canada day 2017, I think they might give a sneak peak at some stations on that day, or month. Who knows.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/light-rail-art-show-2017-1.3512442

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Buggys

I would guess that RTG is secretly hoping to finish everything by Canada Day 2017, and win the hearts of the public.

Eastern portion looks pretty close to done could probably be ready for Canada Day next year (although I'm not sure the city would want to pay to start running a 3-4 stop line).

The rest of the line isn't close to done. They only started construction on the western portion recently and they haven't even finished digging the tunnel.

[Buggys]

Dundas:
"
I'm pretty sure all above ground construction needs to be done before Canada day 2017, I think they might give a sneak peak at some stations on that day, or month. Who knows.
"

acottawa:
"
They only started construction on the western portion recently and they haven't even finished digging the tunnel.
"

....A sneak peak at all the new stations for Doors Open Ottawa or Canada Day 2017 would be pretty cool too :-)

[1overcosc]

It's funny that the Transitway was originally sold as a cheaper alternative to rail but really, it wasn't in the end, given that the city had to pay much higher operating costs for decades.

[Aylmer]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

It's sad that the Transitway was originally sold as a cheaper alternative to rail but really, it wasn't in the end, given that the city had to pay much higher operating costs for decades.

Fixed that for you.

[PHrenetic]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

It's funny that the Transitway was originally sold as a cheaper alternative to rail but really, it wasn't in the end, given that the city had to pay much higher operating costs for decades.

Good Day...
Indeed.
Part of that was that they never really committed to a proper spine model - for better of for worse (a different discussion) they kept and expanded those suburban one seat one butt expresses to downtown, and worse, put them on the T-Way, clogging it to Hum-Hah. Committing to a spine model would have raised mega-objections and blow-back from (pardon me) a privileged few, but would have let the T-Way be properly used to its strengths. No, I am not objecting to running suburban expresses down the T-Way in its entirety, but they could and should have hit consolidation points to entering it, not sending them ALL down it.
And then they never finished either the Downtown spine base, nor the western ORP temporary rental.
All of this resulted in more buses, more drivers, more drivers on split shifts, more congestion, more delays, more maintenance, ....just...more...expense.
The capper was, of course, the trenches and bridges for a system that was supposed to use flexible, cheap, easy, surface systems. Here I speak of what we now have in other areas known as bus priority or bus-only lanes in what is essentially existing infrastructure. That is what was sold to us in the initial T-Way proposition. Hum. Didn't end up that way. Then or now. Andy went for his 'legacy'. Well....despite his recent reappearances to try to re-create that era, it finally ain't gonna be..... (others may argue about the product, but) we are finally getting something akin to what we need.
Thanks, all.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by PHrenetic

Good Day.... I only came to Ottawa in 78, so I am not familiar with the Bullet.... But what you seem to be suggesting is what was I recall was popularly felt at the time, that the bus lobby outmanouvered and buried the rail proponents in what ended up being a ton of erroneous and mis-informing "facts" as to the true costs, both short and long term, of bus .vs. rail, in the context of less cost for buses (but not including in that less cost the cost of building all the trenches and bridges) against more cost for rail (by excessively overstating the cost of trenches and bridges), and similarly the comparative costs of fuel, operators, and maintenance. And then they built the trenches and bridges anyway, sending the construction costs into huge overrun, which were "railroaded" through regional council (an indirect and unelected body, and thus not to be held responsible). And it was those same cost overruns which were then used to justify not creating a viable RoW through downtown - at that time - but rather 'delay' it until it was necessary (!!).
Thanks.

You can pretty well always win a political fight in Ottawa, no matter what the facts are at the time, or no matter what history eventually shows, by cheaping out.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

You can pretty well always win a political fight in Ottawa, no matter what the facts are at the time, or no matter what history eventually shows, by cheaping out.

You can win a political fight anywhere by cheaping out.

People want the politicians to use as little of the taxpayer's money as they can.

Sadly, it has put our country, and the world in the situation we are in; the infrastructure deficit.