Wpg: Chief Peguis Trail Extension

[mcpish]

yeah that was a really bad idea to make CPT and Henderson an at-grade intersection. That should have been made into a full interchange.

The thing that concerns me about the proposed Main and CPT interchange is the design. At the last open-house they seem to be proposing the idea of a single-point urban interchange with the intersection on CPT (not main). I disagree with this. If they are going to go with the Single Point Urban Interchange design than clearly CPT should be the free-flowing road, not main. Here's an example of what I feel it should be: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Macon+...90527da33!8m2!3d32.5409164!4d-84.8195166

Clearly with CPT going OVER Main (to keep it at similar level as the Kildonan Settlers Bridge), and Main street passing underneath with a single intersection located under the overpass. In this example, imagine Macon Rd standing in for Main Street, and I-185 standing in for Chief Peguis Trail.

Similar to what Main street northbound just before CPT would look like at street level, approaching the intersection below CPT:
https://www.google.com/maps/@32.4824763,...QZ8lXG7Ac_9EHDmIlBY9w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Chief Peguis Trail Freeflowing eastbound OVER Main St just before Kildonan Settlers Bridge:
https://www.google.com/maps/@32.4833977,...cKhB1ZqITlcTVKUZC7H9g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by mcpish

yeah that was a really bad idea to make CPT and Henderson an at-grade intersection. That should have been made into a full interchange.

No doubt. I wish the city had more money for infrastructure.

The thing that concerns me about the proposed Main and CPT interchange is the design. At the last open-house they seem to be proposing the idea of a single-point urban interchange with the intersection on CPT (not main). I disagree with this. If they are going to go with the Single Point Urban Interchange design than clearly CPT should be the free-flowing road, not main. Here's an example of what I feel it should be: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Macon+...90527da33!8m2!3d32.5409164!4d-84.8195166

Could be worse. The city could have decided to built the interchange at-grade, or like the Lagimodiere-North Perimeter intersection.

[optimusREIM]

The way we build new roads here is frustrating at the best of times and infuriating at the next best; at the worst of times it feels like our councillors are oblivious to any sort of logic or common sense and defy anything that remotely resembles functionality (as with the near disaster at Marion and Archibald).

I am 100% certain that this will be another project that only serves to piss off anyone who has ever had the privilege of driving in literally every other jurisdiction in the world.

Why don't we make it simple: if the money isn't there for a project to be done properly the first time, then we can't afford it. Much less the future costs down the road when we finally wake up and decide that it needs to be rectified soonishnever.

I cannot for the life of me understand how we have come to shove our heads so far up our asses that we struggle to make our road network worthy of even a third world country in the 1950s.

As all you forumers know already, this project was doomed from the beginning to be a colossal 🞵🞵🞵🞵 storm that provokes a never ending stream of negative comments.

I just can't do this Winnipeg infrastructure bs anymore. We need to go through with the growth fee, hell I'd even go higher than 30k. At the very least developers need to be obliged to build grade separations on the major new pseudo freeways that their subdivisions have access to. We already have more roads that need upgrading we can afford without these new clusterf***s. That doesn't even begin to address our lack of a proper rail based transit system (brt is a dumb idea, designed for politicians to wave accolades in your face and claim they built a transit corridor without actually doing much and most importantly, not spending money)

All this to say that CPT is just another in a long line of asinine thinking on the part of the city.

Edit: I apologize for the digression I just felt that it needed to be said.

[optimusREIM]

Like honestly why can't we be more like Calgary which actually does all the earth work for future interchanges years before the roads actually are built out. I suppose it hurts to be strategic.

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by optimusREIM

Like honestly why can't we be more like Calgary which actually does all the earth work for future interchanges years before the roads actually are built out. I suppose it hurts to be strategic.

Always found Edmonton's infrastructure more impressive. Driving down the Anthony Henday with no lights or obstructions is amazing.

[Spocket]

Originally Posted by optimusREIM

Like honestly why can't we be more like Calgary which actually does all the earth work for future interchanges years before the roads actually are built out. I suppose it hurts to be strategic.

Whoa, whoa, whoa there buddy... that sounds like planning and we don't take kindly to planning around these parts !

[esquire]

The idea of spending $100M+ to separate the grades at Main and CPT so that Main could be the free flowing route is comical verging on absurd. It's hard to imagine something so asinine being seriously considered in many other places... I hate to play the overused "only in Winnipeg" card but this is really an "only in Winnipeg" kind of thing.

[mattpa]

youre missing the bigger picture as all winnipegers are when chief connects where gunn road is at the perimeter all the trucks will be using it as a through route to the centre port so that 100mill makes more sense then you think

[cheswick]

Originally Posted by mattpa

youre missing the bigger picture as all winnipegers are when chief connects where gunn road is at the perimeter all the trucks will be using it as a through route to the centre port so that 100mill makes more sense then you think

I think you're missing his point. He's saying if only one route is free flowing it should be cpt not main st.

[Urban recluse]

Originally Posted by Jets4Life

Always found Edmonton's infrastructure more impressive. Driving down the Anthony Henday with no lights or obstructions is amazing.

Winnipeg is backwards, or backwoods, or both. Edmonton also has the Whitemud, which is virtually free of lights.

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by Urban recluse

Winnipeg is backwards, or backwoods, or both. Edmonton also has the Whitemud, which is virtually free of lights.

Whitemud was not free of lights until December 2011, when they completed the 17 St overpass. However, now it is free flowing from one end of Edmonton to the other. Anthony Henday was originally not a free flowing highway, but the Province wizened up, and changed the SW corridor to limited access by 2011.

[jmt18325]

Originally Posted by cheswick

I think you're missing his point. He's saying if only one route is free flowing it should be cpt not main st.

I'm assuming their logic has to do with traffic counts - if there is a logic to it.

[buzzg]

^I feel like (if it is traffic counts) the current traffic counts between the two routes can't hold a ton of value when looking to the future... Because right now CPT doesn't really go that far, but once it is expanded and (slowly) works to joining the "ring road" the traffic counts will keep going up.

[bomberjet]

That'd be ridiculous if the single point interchange had Main as free flow. I know the original open house showed that. Looks like the plan was altered slightly. CPT will now be 6 lanes from Henderson to Main, instead of 5 on the original plan. I'll assume sanity prevailed and the designers have it right this time. They're smart people and know that would be complete insanity.

[Riverman]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

That'd be ridiculous if the single point interchange had Main as free flow. I know the original open house showed that. Looks like the plan was altered slightly. CPT will now be 6 lanes from Henderson to Main, instead of 5 on the original plan. I'll assume sanity prevailed and the designers have it right this time. They're smart people and know that would be complete insanity.

The existing bridge is only four lanes. Will a new bridge be built?

[bomberjet]

There's room in the middle for an additional two lanes. PDF here shows the latest info. But doesn't go into detail on interchange types or configurations. Section at the bottom of page shows the proposed bridge design.
http://www.winnipeg.ca/publicworks/construction/pdf/chiefPeguisWest/CPTW_map_June2016.pdf


They'll be adding a pedestrian pathway as well. There is a separate project for this too and has a tender out now. I assume they need to widen the bridge first to get the proper width on the new pathway.
http://winnipeg.ca/MatMgt/FolderContents.asp?FOLDER_NAME=709-2016&YEAR=2016

Just reading through the RFP for the pathway and it says the functional design is complete and a single point interchange will be constructed at Main st.

[MG922]

Originally Posted by Riverman

The existing bridge is only four lanes. Will a new bridge be built?

The existing bridge has separated superstructures, but the substructure is common between them. Apparently there's room for another girder line and traffic lane each direction between the existing bridges.

Seems like reasonable foresight and planning from whoever designed that bridge!

edit: ninja'd by bomberjet

[esquire]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

That'd be ridiculous if the single point interchange had Main as free flow. I know the original open house showed that.

It would be so mind-bogglingly stupid if they did that. The only way it could be rationalized IMO is as a prank by someone in engineering who was retiring soon and just wanted to see if he could get away with it.

Another irritant in the new diagram is the dogleg for CPT around Little Mountain Park. Seriously, there will be an awkwardly sharp curve in the road to save a piece of scrub land that could easily be duplicated anywhere else?

It's amusing to see the design process at work here... this is how a Winnipeg expressway is born. I look forward to more doglegs around softball diamonds, diamond interchanges with the stoplights on the expressway.

Maybe they could consider some other fun "only in Winnipeg" customizations to CPT? Here are a few ideas:

-A drive-thru Tim Hortons and Co-op gas bar between the EB and WB lanes
-New fire station with direct expressway access and a stop light
-30 km/h school zones just to be on the safe side
-Even more retention ponds to ensure maximum amounts of goose 🞵🞵🞵🞵 on the road

Oh well, at least it's not just rapid transit that gets botched in this place.

[Riverman]

Originally Posted by MG922

The existing bridge has separated superstructures, but the substructure is common between them. Apparently there's room for another girder line and traffic lane each direction between the existing bridges.

Seems like reasonable foresight and planning from whoever designed that bridge!

That really is ingenious.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by esquire

Maybe they could consider some other fun "only in Winnipeg" customizations to CPT? Here are a few ideas:

-A drive-thru Tim Hortons and Co-op gas bar between the EB and WB lanes
-New fire station with direct expressway access and a stop light
-30 km/h school zones just to be on the safe side
-Even more retention ponds to ensure maximum amounts of goose 🞵🞵🞵🞵 on the road

Oh well, at least it's not just rapid transit that gets botched in this place.

They should combine those all into one: retention ponds on either side of the road with a Co-op and Tim Hortons in the middle. Make the zone a 30 km/h protected goose crossing zone with its only on-demand light that allows the geese to cross the road stopping traffic.